Originally posted by peejaydNo, you are wrong. Did you not look at the real meaning of "Hell" in the original language? And yes, it was metaphorical wording for a warring people..And NO, I am not grasping at ropes. It is so unsettling how blind you really are.
* read between the lines... the verses i gave says it all...* of course, it's not Moses... this is a part of my premise... the time element... the law of Moses and the prophets in the Old Testament were until John the Baptist...
* of course, it's not Moses... hell according to the Bible does not equal to the hell according to you...
* grasping for ropes, my friend?
* hell is not according to your own definition...
* and he did mentioned it, you're just ignoring it... and Moses is not THE giver of law, the law is from God... 😉
You have a poor grasp of what Sheol means. It is indeed associated with the after life, it is seperate from the physical grave which is keber, it is seperate from physical corruption and is mentioned numerous times by Moses. I provided you a list of the times Sheol is mentioned in the books of Moses. You simply refuse to see that you have been proven wrong... more than once.
No, predestination does not happen. That would totally destroy the whole "free-will" thing, and I mean seriously, I don't understand why God would create someone who had no possible way of redemption. Unless God creates people to send to hell so he can change the channel on his tv and watch them when he gets bored on Mondays. It's ridiculous.
Originally posted by PuffyCheese
No, predestination does not happen. That would totally destroy the whole "free-will" thing, and I mean seriously, I don't understand why God would create someone who had no possible way of redemption. Unless God creates people to send to hell so he can change the channel on his tv and watch them when he gets bored on Mondays. It's ridiculous.
Yay another person to add to the conflict just like . . . well . . . everybody here.
Originally posted by Thundar
Tautological - convuluted nonsense, used for the sake of confusing others into believing you've made a valid point. It's fairly apparent that you're lying about this, and anyone who reads the prior pages can clearly see this to be the case. I won't engage you in it any further since my initial point has already been made.
In other words, you cannot indicate how the quote, "For us believing physicists the distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one," supports that it is impossible for man to understand the true nature of time, and that “time is an illusionary concept put in place by a supreme being to assist man.”
Originally posted by Thundar
The concept of something existing "outside of time" is neither measurable, observable, nor has it been experienced by man. This makes it abstract or "abstruse." Even despite our abilities to measure it within this life; it is not entirely tangible to us, as we have no ability to completely grasp or control it, however, we are still subject to either its compassionate or ravaging control over us.
In other words, you cannot substantiate that time exists only as an abstract concept, and that any measurements thereof “are strictly derived from one's speculative-faith based assumptions and visual observations,” nor can you refute that time does not exist only as an abstract concept in that it is a dimension that is measurable, i.e. the curvature of space-time around an object is just as real as the mass or volume of the object.
Originally posted by Thundar
Scientists can and should speculate on the non-observable, and it is necessary for one to keep an open mind about all possibilities when seeking truth. However, when one can only make theoretical and faith-based speculations about what occurs "outside of time"; then of course in keeping an open mind, it is wise to not definitionally state what can and cannot be done wiith such an abstract.
In other words, it was possible for scientists prior to April 12th 1961 to understand what exists outside of the atmosphere of the planet despite no one having been to space, but it is not possible for scientists today to understand what exists outside of time as no one has been outside of time.
Originally posted by peejayd
* when? time element, my friend...* when a sinner was baptized, he would be washed, sanctified and justified... he would be a candidate for salvation i.e. eternal life... but can salvation be lost?
* Saint John had adviced the brethren to be careful not to lose the things they (Saint John and the disciples) had worked very hard for... what is an example of this?
* if the sin was done deliberately, even if you are appointed to eternal life, you're salvation can be lost... another proof?
* the people in verse are once saved... they have been enlightened, they have tasted heavenly gift, they have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, they have tasted the goodness of the word of God, etc... but they committed apostasy, they fell away... it is impossible for them to be restored again to repentance...
When one is appointed to eternal life by God is not relevant; that he is appointed to eternal life by God means that he does not have free will.
Originally posted by peejayd
* my friend, refusing to love the truth is far different from believing what is false...
One would not reject the love of the truth so as to not be saved if he recognizes it as the truth. Hence, it follows from rejecting the love of the truth so as to not be saved, that they did not believe the truth, or believed what is false.
Originally posted by peejayd
* God is not in the boundaries of time... He cannot be bored... He is eternal... but He can also be within the boundaries of time when interacting with humans... like for example, the downpour of rain and the rising and setting of the sun...
For God to act as a causal agent in the world, He must exists inside of time as nothing that exists outside of time can be the cause of temporal changes.
Originally posted by peejayd
* how can God exist only inside of time if one day and a thousand years are the same for God? if God is inside time, He should have aged... but nope...* God does not change...
* God is still God from eternity to eternity... 😉
Because time is relative to the observer; for one who exists in a state of temporal acceleration with relationship to other time frames, one day could be a thousand years.
Originally posted by NellinatorLook! Gehenna, go there.
You have a poor grasp of what Sheol means. It is indeed associated with the after life, it is seperate from the physical grave which is keber, it is seperate from physical corruption and is mentioned numerous times by Moses. I provided you a list of the times Sheol is mentioned in the books of Moses. You simply refuse to see that you have been proven wrong... more than once.
🙄
The inventors of hell:
Polybius
Dionysius Halicarnassus
Livy, the celebrated historian
Strabo, the geographer
Timaeus Locrus, the Pythagorean
Plutarch
Seneca
Tertullian
Jonathan Edwards
etc...on and on and on..
http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/AncientHell.htm
Originally posted by debbiejo
Look! Gehenna, go there.
http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellPhotos/index.htm🙄
thats hell?
meh I could live with that
Originally posted by Nellinator
Now I already went over this with Symmetric Chaos who acknowledged that is was obviously a metaphor for more. You need to learn what context means, Gehenna is used much differently then you are inferring.
Hubuda WAH?
Thats the same quote from me but your acting like its Nellinator or Thundar or peejayed!
Why must I have such a tenous grasp on what is happening?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hubuda WAH?Thats the same quote from me but your acting like its Nellinator or Thundar or peejayed!
Why must I have such a tenous grasp on what is happening?