Predestination

Originally posted by Thundar
Taken from mr. Adam_Poe...

[b]
definition: space
the unlimited or incalculably great three-dimensional realm or expanse in which all material objects are located and all events occur.

So based on the definition you've given as well as the one I've provided, it's quite apparent that earth's atmosphere is just a reference to a specific area within "space."

This being stated, once again one can logically conclude that you're analogy is erroneous and not equivocal to our initial argument, as it does not pertain to man travelling outside of a given abstract, but rather, it only pertains to man travelling to a specific location within it.

So moving back to the original topic, it is rather apparent that one must be careful when definitively stating what one can do(specifically God) outside of measurable or observable abstract concepts, when they have no knowledge of what lies beyond such concepts.

This is my last post on the topic, seeing as how my point has already been well made. I have very much enjoyed discussing this with you. [/B]

[list=1][*]Time does not exist only as an abstract concept.

[*]The analogy in question is logically equivocal.

[*]Where is your evidence that something exists outside of time?[/list]

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If there is an outside of time, then Adam_PoE is absolutely correct. We live in a universe where information cannot be lost. What that means is that there is never information added or removed. Therefore, anything outside of time would have no effect on things in time. Anything that would be outside of time could be considered to not exist.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Perhaps different types of time.

The type of time, if there is such a thing, wound not matter. Anything outside of time would have no effect on anything inside of time.

How do you know? It would be like a circle inside a circle only the outside circle has some effect on the inside circle to some extent. What if there are a multitude of circles? Maybe like a record LP. OR, maybe even inside a certain circle are many smaller circles which are in the one certain circle....Each circle acting on it's own principles or frequencies and laws.

Originally posted by debbiejo
How do you know? It would be like a circle inside a circle only the outside circle has some effect on the inside circle to some extent. What if there are a multitude of circles? Maybe like a record LP. OR, maybe even inside a certain circle are many smaller circles which are in the one certain circle....Each circle acting on it's own principles or frequencies and laws.

I explained above. It is all about information.

You don't understand what I'm saying do you......Oh, never mind...bangin

Originally posted by fini
YES , IT does!!!!!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes it does.

Case and point originally he loved the Jews and then there was that Hitler guy who didn't get stopped by god.

* nope, He does not... and i'm talking about God's state of being... God is always God, a spiritual being, He does not change... oh, and of course God changes His emotions but not His state of being...

Originally posted by debbiejo
No, you are wrong. Did you not look at the real meaning of "Hell" in the original language?

* did you? i doubt...

Originally posted by debbiejo
And yes, it was metaphorical wording for a warring people..And NO, I am not grasping at ropes. It is so unsettling how blind you really are.

* what's unsettling is how stubborn you are... you want to inject your own interpretation of hell and exclude everything else except the books written by Moses... how irrelevant... hell fire is mentioned several times in the New Testament, even so by Jesus Himself and you still choose to ignore it? now, that's real stubbornness, my female friend... 😉

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
When one is appointed to eternal life by God is not relevant; that he is appointed to eternal life by God means that he does not have free will.

* that's only your interpretation, my friend... Hebrews 6:4-6 blatantly tells us that people appointed to eternal life can lose their salvation, thus invoking their power of free will...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
One would not reject the love of the truth so as to not be saved if he recognizes it as the truth. Hence, it follows from rejecting the love of the truth so as to not be saved, that they did not believe the truth, or believed what is false.

* wrong... rejecting to love the truth means you know the difference between truth and false, and you rejected the truth... it is far different from believing what is false... oh my, please compose yourself, my friend...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
For God to act as a causal agent in the world, He must exists inside of time as nothing that exists outside of time can be the cause of temporal changes.

* ... AND He can exist outside the boundaries of time because He is eternal, infinite, everlasting...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Because time is relative to the observer; for one who exists in a state of temporal acceleration with relationship to other time frames, one day could be a thousand years.

* the point is, one day and a thousand years is the same to an eternal being... 😉

Originally posted by debbiejo
You don't understand what I'm saying do you......Oh, never mind...bangin

evil_monkey Yes I understood, but the idea that information is never lost, makes your idea just... lost.

Information is never lost, just added too...If god is in all things, then god is this.

Originally posted by peejayd
* that's only your interpretation, my friend... Hebrews 6:4-6 blatantly tells us that people appointed to eternal life can lose their salvation, thus invoking their power of free will...

There is no figurative way to interpret Acts 13:48. People are either appointed, i.e. named or assigned; designated; determined; fixed; set; ordered or established by decree or command; ordained; or constituted to eternal life by God or they are not. If they are not, then God is not omniscient or omnipotent, and The Bible is errant.

Originally posted by peejayd
* wrong... rejecting to love the truth means you know the difference between truth and false, and you rejected the truth... it is far different from believing what is false... oh my, please compose yourself, my friend...

No one who recognizes the love of the truth as truth; does not believe what is false; and understands that rejecting the love of the truth will result in not being saved, would reject the love of the truth so as to not be saved.

Originally posted by peejayd
* ... AND He can exist outside the boundaries of time because He is eternal, infinite, everlasting...

This is not an argument, it is a tautology.

Originally posted by peejayd
* the point is, one day and a thousand years is the same to an eternal being... 😉

No, the point is that 2 Peter:3-8 indicates that God exists inside of time.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
There is no figurative way to interpret Acts 13:48.

* do you think i'm interpreting it figuratively?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
People are either appointed, i.e. named or assigned; designated; determined; fixed; set; ordered or established by decree or command; ordained; or constituted to eternal life by God or they are not.

* you are misinterpreting the entire verse, the entire chapter, the entire Bible and even God with a single, solitary word - "appointed"... that's pretty one-sided, my friend...

* i'm explaining the whole thing to you, for example: the person was appointed to eternal life by God, by then, that person is saved, but times comes when that person deliberately commits sin against God, rebels against God... that person loses his salvation... Hebrews 6:4-6 is pretty blatant, my friend...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If they are not, then God is not omniscient or omnipotent, and The Bible is errant.

* weird, the Bible tells us that there is something God cannot do and there is something God does not know...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No one who recognizes the love of the truth as truth; does not believe what is false; and understands that rejecting the love of the truth will result in not being saved, would reject the love of the truth so as to not be saved.

* now, this is a tautology, my friend...

* i'll set you as an example... you seemed to reject the truth in the Bible, but do you believe what you think is false? you tell me...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, the point is that 2 Peter:3-8 indicates that God exists inside of time.

* and Psalms 90:2 indicates that God is eternal, thus He is outside of time as well... 😉

I think something can exist outside of time and still have a causal relation with the universe in someway.

Like light for example.... in the frame of reference of light time do not exist(the time between two events is always 0 for things that travel at the speed of light), yet light has energy and can cause many phenomena in our universe.

The time it takes light to reach two places is only 0 by human measurements of time.

But someone in the light frame of reference will perceive that no time is passing, actually someone in other frames that are not in the speed of light will measure that some time passed.

yet light has energy and can cause many phenomena in our universe.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes it does. Lights energy can even affect ones DNA.

Thats why we have skin to protect DNA and systems in our cells to repair DNA. 🙂

I'm talking more about DNA interacting with and emitting light energy and light being transferred along neural pathways.

Originally posted by peejayd
* do you think i'm interpreting it figuratively?

* you are misinterpreting the entire verse, the entire chapter, the entire Bible and even God with a single, solitary word - [b]"appointed"... that's pretty one-sided, my friend...[/b]

People are either appointed, i.e. named or assigned; designated; determined; fixed; set; ordered or established by decree or command; ordained; or constituted to eternal life by God or they are not.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i'm explaining the whole thing to you, for example: the person was appointed to eternal life by God, by then, that person is saved, but times comes when that person deliberately commits sin against God, rebels against God... that person loses his salvation... Hebrews 6:4-6 is pretty blatant, my friend...

* weird, the Bible tells us that there is something God cannot do and there is something God does not know...

If it is possible for one to do something other than what God has appointed, i.e. named or assigned; designated; determined; fixed; set; ordered or established by decree or command; ordained; or constituted that he do, then God is not omnipotent.

If it is possible for one to do something other than what God knows that he will do, then God is not omniscient.

Originally posted by peejayd
* now, this is a tautology, my friend...

* i'll set you as an example... you seemed to reject the truth in the Bible, but do you believe what you think is false? you tell me...

[list=1][*]The only thing The Bible is evidence of is that ink sticks to paper. Hence, I "reject the love of the truth so as to not be saved," because I do not recognize The Bible as truth.

[*]One does not hold a belief if he believes it to be false. The issue is not whether one believes his beliefs to be false, but whether one believes a belief that is false.[/list]

Originally posted by peejayd
* and Psalms 90:2 indicates that God is eternal, thus He is outside of time as well... 😉

Both verses cannot be correct. Which is it?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Both verses cannot be correct. Which is it?

On this whole topic of predestination, some are appointed to eternal life, but eternal life is not restricted to the appointed.