Pre-retcon Beyonder v.s. The Brothers (pre-retcon)

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree bran. and why are the brothers being associated with toaa and presence . . .? that's never said anywhere. mm, you need to either stay with on-panel, or allow speculation. you can't argue against speculation, then use it in an argument. 😬

anywho, imo, i think the terminology needs to be tossed out for this topic (as with most topics . . .) one brother represented dc, one represented marvel. both were greater than anything in EITHER fold. one or the other was to be wiped out as a result of the contest -- not one universe -- marvel or dc, and WHATEVER comprised each. it's clear through inference that that is what was at stake. we've seen the futility (over and over and over again . . .) of attempting to assign any universally accepted terminolgy (multiverse v universe v omniverse v . . . .) in these cosmic threads.

it was marvel vs dc. the stakes seem quite clear.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
They were stated to be the supreme force of each respective universe.
Nothing's above them, and even if they werent TOAA/Presence they would be above them, because there are nothing above the Bro's

Agree they where E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G in the respectiv DC and Marvel.

In theory the TOAA would thus his name, And again from what I have been capable of digging up they were indeed supposed to be TOAA and The Presence, but the idea was dropped.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Agree they where E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G in the respectiv DC and Marvel.

In theory the TOAA would thus his name, And again from what I have been capable of digging up they were indeed supposed to be TOAA and The Presence, but the idea was dropped.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Agree they where E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G in the respectiv DC and Marvel.

In theory the TOAA would thus his name, And again from what I have been capable of digging up they were indeed supposed to be TOAA and The Presence, but the idea was dropped.

i don't believe that lt acknowledged the marvel brother AS TOAA though -- and lt should know. nor did spectre reference the other as the presence -- something HE would know as well.

to me -- while encompassing both companies in their entirelty -- they've always fit between lt/spectre and presence/toaa. does it make sense? perhaps not, but that's where i've always seen 'em. 😬

Originally posted by Utrigita
Agree they where E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G in the respectiv DC and Marvel.

In theory the TOAA would thus his name, And again from what I have been capable of digging up they were indeed supposed to be TOAA and The Presence, but the idea was dropped.

i don't believe that lt acknowledged the marvel brother AS TOAA though -- and lt should know. nor did spectre reference the other as the presence -- something HE would know as well.

to me -- while encompassing both companies in their entirety -- they've always fit between lt/spectre and presence/toaa. does it make sense? perhaps not, but that's where i've always seen 'em. 😬

Originally posted by starlock
c'mon mr master arent you going to spam us again,this is such a waste of space,do you even realize how much crap you just posted,do you really feel the need to win this match for the beyonder

Agreed 🙂

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But this is pre-retcon ...

Exactly that is why they were everything ying and yang and so on and on and .... you get the picture.

It is actually tricky the beyonder was said to be outside the multiverse, but the brothers compassed everything in the respective universe Marvel and DC.

And don't burn me for the theory as stated it was only theory

Originally posted by xjustice69x
in my opinion the brothers win.
the bros = both the marvel and dc writers and editors working together to create the most powerfull beings ever.

the beyonder = marvel writers and editors working together to create the most powerfull being ever.

i would say the 2 companys together represent more power

you know what...? ive been rooting for pre-retcon beyonder the entire time but this was just too good an argument. 🤣 if you think about it, it perfectly makes sense. two companies are greater than one.

im convinced, the brothers win. 😆

Originally posted by h1a8
I used a deductive argument. Meaning if the premises are true then the conclusion is necessarily true. But if the conclusion is false then at least one of the premises is false. So if my conclusion above is false then explain which one of my premises is false.

i think the error in your premise is that your defining the marvel multiverse by its post retcon era definition. during pre retcon era, the definition of the multiverse can only be seen ON PANEL and not on handbooks and official websites, as such whatever is defined ON PANEL should stand when considering PRE retcon events. to define the multiverse otherwise would be to null the restriction of pre retcon.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't believe that lt acknowledged the marvel brother AS TOAA though -- and lt should know. nor did spectre reference the other as the presence -- something HE would know as well.

to me -- while encompassing both companies in their entirety -- they've always fit between lt/spectre and presence/toaa. does it make sense? perhaps not, but that's where i've always seen 'em. 😬

It is kind of like HOTU. Just because he is way more powerful than LT, doesn't mean that he is TOAA.

Also, why does it matter if the Brothers were God, or not? Beyonder wasn't above God. Beyonder may have specualtion to this "Writer" like ability, but then, what did he show? If he was the writer, he could have unwritten Molecule Man's power. If he was the writer, he would have went unapposed.

I hate this, real world shit that is in comics. Writers? Editors?
So?

Originally posted by Mindship
Wasn't the pre-retcon Beyonder basically an avatar for the writers? If so, the Bros stand no chance.

if he was well its only for marvel writers. one brother would be in your words "avatar" for marvel company (entire team of writers and editors etc.) and the other the "avatar" for DC. 2 is > than 1.

but i guess on the other hand the served more as symbols or icons rather than as avatars. so i guess im a little undecided again as to who wins. 😠

So...I'm gonna side with the guy who posted evidence of the Brothers not being everything and being owned by LT and Spectre. Hearsay is great...but on-panel evidence is better.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
So...I'm gonna side with the guy who posted evidence of the Brothers not being everything and being owned by LT and Spectre. Hearsay is great...but on-panel evidence is better.

Good point. After the retcon, no one is above Living Tribunal save The One Above All. No one is above Spectre=Word besides the Presence.

after a retcon

Well, why is everyone saying The Brothers were everything? Mr. M showed they weren't in a bunch of scans. Unless everyone is in denial.

because you need to read the scans again take the respect thread from Galan and read the entire battle and well before that it is said that they compassed ALL of everything.

What about all the scans Mr. M posted that showed they didn't?

see if it one place says that they wasn't everything before they split asunder, because that is what this is about is it not.

.

Beyonder was God back in the 80s, but there is no way he's taking down both Marvel's and DC's supreme being.