Pre-retcon Beyonder v.s. The Brothers (pre-retcon)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Unfortunately you never did.

And you ignored most of my post on top of that.

I disagree,

the story is full of contradictions and continuity mix-ups, the whole series is garbage honestly, which I don't intend to debate anymore because of it.

No need for the disrespect, I'm being courteous, reply accordingly or you'll be ignored.

My First Post included, "IMO"

Your opinion,

so me where it's stated and I'll agree.

What are you talking about?

They were ONE "literal Universe" Each to begin with. (Hey don't blame me for the "Contradictions" they themselves created)

I mean seriously just Read:

"Once before they Battled, 'ending and then beginning' all creation again, in the explosion the Brothers were blasted Apart, FRACTURING the NEW Born Universe into a Multiverse"

I assume you'll agree the "NEW Born" Universe was them, (being ONE NEW Born Universe each), and each NEW Born Universe became A Multiverse just like it clearly said On Panel.

So perhaps they were a Multiverse, it seems,

but that raises other questions,

how did they take over Eternity's position?

Where's Roma in this drama? 😕

Roma's territory is the Omniverse or even A Multiverse.

Again, stick to the debate and don't get emotional.

Anyone with can also see and read what it clearly says On Panel.

[B]"Once before they Battled, 'ending and then beginning' all creation again, in the explosion the Brothers were blasted Apart, Fracturing the New Born Universe into a Multiverse"

That's the most I'll give them,

and it Contradicts ALL of Marvel's Cosmology up to that point and after it as well.

Which is why I have never included these Brothers in my hierarchy.

They were retconned into Megaverses about 3 Months after this Marvel vs DC garbage in Adventures of the X-Men, so I'll except that.

My argument is geared towards this Marvel vs DC Arc, it should never be considered for it's complete disregard for the Marvel Cosmology and Continuity.

Look at this:

If the Brothers embodied ALL of Marvel and DC, what the heck is Access doing reaching Space that the Brothers Do NOT Encompassed?

"the Bum helped me jump SOMEPLACE, INBETWEEN, SOMEPLACE where NO ASPECT of the BROTHERS EXISTED"

(I thought they were the WHOLE of Reality?)

More contradictions. [/B]

actually there is a space where the brothers never existed. It's the wrealm in between the companies. They dont' make up the omniverse of comics, only the omniverse of each other. when the companies merged for the cross over, they in effect created a new wrealm where neither brother had ultimate power. this wrealm is where they didn't exist. it was a place controlled by both powers that be and thus the brothers didn't exist in this place themselves.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
actually there is a space where the brothers never existed. It's the wrealm in between the companies. They dont' make up the omniverse of comics, only the omniverse of each other. when the companies merged for the cross over, they in effect created a new wrealm where neither brother had ultimate power. this wrealm is where they didn't exist. it was a place controlled by both powers that be and thus the brothers didn't exist in this place themselves.

Dude,

your definitely going to have to show me or tell me where your getting your information from,

otherwise I ain't buying it. 🙄

The Living Tribunal & Spectre momentarily OWNED the Brothers, you telling me LT and Spectre are more powerful than TOAA and the Presence?

That's who these "Brothers" are supposed to be right? 😕

"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER "

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

BY FORCE!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude,

your definitely going to have to show me or tell me where your getting your information from,

otherwise I ain't buying it. 🙄

The Living Tribunal & Spectre momentarily OWNED the Brothers, you telling me LT and Spectre are more powerful than TOAA and the Presence?

That's who these "Brothers" are supposed to be right? 😕

[B]"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER "

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

BY FORCE! [/B]

This got reported but I'm not sure why.

You guys are debating, posting scans and arguments of your logic, etc. That's fine.

But when it gets to the point where you're obviously not going to agree, Agreeing to Disagree" is better than reporting for "spam" that you don't agree with or like.

Proceed.

Originally posted by starlock
c'mon mr master arent you going to spam us again,this is such a waste of space,do you even realize how much crap you just posted,do you really feel the need to win this match for the beyonder

I guess Beyonder induced orgasms must be a charm.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Given the context of the story and that the companies had planned this merger all along, the brothers were indeed dwarfed by the combined might of this new join venture. The Spectre and the LT were acting under the direction of the companies themselves. Who combined dwarf only the one. Each brother was only one half of a whole. the Whole decided that the amalgam universe would make good money. So the Whole superceeded the wishes of either half. the brothers are not shown working together at any point. Only against each other. The brothers were also duped.

No offense dude,

but your making this whole story up based on your personal theory.

The Brothers were NOT "half of a whole" ... Where'd you get that from?

The "whole decided that the Almagam Universe would MAKE GOOD MONEY?"

dontgetit

What the hell?

Are you serious?

The Brothers are worried about making money? 😂
(don't tell me about the "Corporate" babble going on behind closed doors, let's STICK to Comics)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
had they known the spectre and lt were goign to save one universe, they would have simply obliterated them as is stated on panel that the spectre and lt were nothing but fleas to them.

NO Where On Panel is that stated,

so let's please Not improvise.

The Fact reamins that the Brothers got OWNED momentarily by Spectre and LT, and you refuse to acknowledge that.

The Heart of the Infinite absorbed the Living Tribunal like a True "FLEA" but Not these Brothers.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
nThe brothers themselves represented all that was DC or Marvel up until that point.

So you say,

On Panel they were TWO Multiverses.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Once the cross over happened, there became this new wrealm that they alone didn't represent. This is where access comes in. he is a character wholly owned by both companies. Niether brother has power over him or the inbetween space he can go to.

Until you show me where you read this, I'll never except it.

The Story does NOT mention ANY of that,

in fact if your saying this is from the Arc, your making it up.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No offense dude,

but your making this whole story up based on your personal theory.

The Brothers were NOT "half of a whole" ... Where'd you get that from?

The "whole decided that the Almagam Universe would MAKE GOOD MONEY?"

dontgetit

What the hell?

Are you serious?

The Brothers are worried about making money? 😂
(don't tell me about the "Corporate" babble going on behind closed doors, let's STICK to Comics)

NO Where On Panel is that stated,

so let's please Not improvise.

The Fact reamins that the Brothers got OWNED momentarily by Spectre and LT, and you refuse to acknowledge that.

The Heart of the Infinite absorbed the Living Tribunal like a True "FLEA" but Not these Brothers.

So you say,

On Panel they were TWO Multiverses.

Until you show me where you read this, I'll never except it.

The Story does NOT mention ANY of that,

in fact if your saying this is from the Arc, your making it up.

LOL the very fact that access could step outside of their power shows that he was beyond either of them. Also The spectre and the LT never owned the brothers. You dont' ever see them fighting the brothers and winning not for one second. They cirumvented the will of the brothers. But that is not owning. Spiderman could temporarily get in the way of Thanos's plans, but that is not Spiderman owning thanos is it?

´The Beyonder discovered that the universe actually was a multiverse.´

So you can say the universe and still refere to the entire Marvel continuity, and also (obviously) with DC.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LOL the very fact that access could step outside of their power shows that he was beyond either of them.

Actually what that shows is that the Brothers did NOT encompass everything, and ONLY a Multiverse like the it states On Panel.

And you shouldn't ignore my posts and only respond to what you think you can answer, if you see that you're wrong give props, don't just avoid it and then come back with a "LOL" ...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also The spectre and the LT never owned the brothers. You dont' ever see them fighting the brothers and winning not for one second.

No, ... you see them OWNED!

No matter how you cut it, the Fact that LT and Spectre were able to MANHANDLE the Two Brothers and Squish Them Together by FORCE into ONE Universe is Incredible!

Let LT try that on THOTI, which is the True OAA's Power, (and not even his Full Power at that)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They cirumvented the will of the brothers. But that is not owning. Spiderman could temporarily get in the way of Thanos's plans, but that is not Spiderman owning thanos is it?

Again, your making stuff up and it get's getting annoying.

No where On Panel does it say they "circumvented" Anything!

They were OWNED momentarily by FORCE with POWER!

(Actually we find out in the Next Issue, that the Living Tribunal and Spectre were the ones that MERGED the TWO Universes BY FORCE!)

"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER "

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually what that shows is that the Brothers did NOT encompass everything, and ONLY a Multiverse like the it states On Panel.

And you shouldn't ignore my posts and only respond to what you think you can answer, if you see that you're wrong give props, don't just avoid it and then come back with a "LOL" ...

No, ... you see them OWNED!

No matter how you cut it, the Fact that LT and Spectre were able to MANHANDLE the Two Brothers and Squish Them Together by FORCE into ONE Universe is Incredible!

Let LT try that on THOTI, which is the True OAA's Power, (and not even his Full Power at that)

Again, your making stuff up and it get's getting annoying.

No where On Panel does it say they "circumvented" Anything!

They were OWNED momentarily by FORCE with POWER!

(Actually we find out in the Next Issue, that the Living Tribunal and Spectre were the ones that MERGED the TWO Universes BY FORCE!)

[B]"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER "

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it" [/B]

You are just going to believe what you want master. There is no logical way I can put it to you. The brothers represent all that ever was DC and Marvel up until that point. period. It is shown on panel that in a direct conflict, the spectre and the lt were nothing but fleas. The Spectre and The LT didn't force a merger. They duped them. Put it like this, the brothers are not shown resisting a merger. not at all. It also seems to slip your notice that the brothers had forgotten who they were for a time. while the spectre and lt have been at it a long time. Had the brothers wanted, the universes never would have merged. The brothers never fought the merger.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
[SIZE=3]´The Beyonder discovered that the universe actually was a multiverse.´So you can say the universe and still refere to the entire Marvel continuity, and also (obviously) with DC.

Actually that's just Beyonder finding out that the Universe, is actually a Multiverse.

From that point on Beyonder calls it the Multiverse.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The brothers represent all that ever was DC and Marvel up until that point. period.

Absolutely,

we'll just ignore this entirely.

"Once before they Battled, 'ending and then beginning' all creation again, in the explosion the Brothers were blasted Apart, Fracturing the New Born Universe into a MULTIVERSE"

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It is shown on panel that in a direct conflict, the spectre and the lt were nothing but fleas.

No where On Panel is that stated.

And even after LT and Spectre released the Brother's Merger, they only ALLOWED the Brothers to Strike ONCE at each other.

They were HOLDING them back for a while.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Spectre and The LT didn't force a merger. They duped them. Put it like this, the brothers are not shown resisting a merger. not at all.

Of Course not, Spectre and LT MERGED them, what they gonna do?

"They were Duped?"

Stop saying that cause it's NOT True.

The Living Tribunal and Spectre were struggling to keep the Brothers MERGED.

But they did OWN them nonetheless (momentarily)

Had they been the true embodiments of Marvel and DC, as in TOAA & the Presence, LT and Spectre would not have been able to do squat.

Let alone MERGE them by FORCE!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Had the brothers wanted, the universes never would have merged. The brothers never fought the merger.

Whatever you say,

the On Panel account clearly depicts LT and Spectre HOLDING the Brothers together by Force.

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER"

Had they not been released properly,

BOTH Brothers would have been Destroyed.

Brothers win. Every bio on earth on them will agree.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude,

your definitely going to have to show me or tell me where your getting your information from,

otherwise I ain't buying it. 🙄

The Living Tribunal & Spectre momentarily OWNED the Brothers, you telling me LT and Spectre are more powerful than TOAA and the Presence?

That's who these "Brothers" are supposed to be right? 😕

[B]"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER "

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

BY FORCE! [/B]

No the Guardiens of the universe are not holding it together by force but with the last ditch effort.

Again you have forgotten a point, You seem to change you analyse in a way so it suited you current state of mind. I will agree with you that it is strange that LT doesn't grow to the same height as the Brothers, but we clearly hear LT and Spectre say that a being beyond there capabilities are loose, funny I never hear LT says that in the Secret Wars II Please correct my if I am wrong. Again if we analyse the entire saga (go read Galan respect thread Slowly these time) We see them say that the spectre can defeat a thousand a Thousands armies and you see how well he is faring. And again the force the brothers unleashed thoriated to destroy everything just after a couple of close encounters, and don't use that they were reconnected Beyonder was to and I will happily give you the reasons again.

And if you believe that the alamgam is Garbage, then I how don't like the beyonder can say the same as you can Secret Wars II was garbage since it created a Character that was possible the most stupid near-omnipotente Character to ever walked the Marvel Universe, can destroy a Galaxy but don't know how to use a toilet please come on.

Brothers.
Each one could solo Beyonder.

Originally posted by bigbran
Brothers.
Each one could solo Beyonder.

Yes they could if they wanted to!

i agree bran. and why are the brothers being associated with toaa and presence . . .? that's never said anywhere. mm, you need to either stay with on-panel, or allow speculation. you can't argue against speculation, then use it in an argument. 😬

anywho, imo, i think the terminology needs to be tossed out for this topic (as with most topics . . .) one brother represented dc, one represented marvel. both were greater than anything in EITHER fold. one or the other was to be wiped out as a result of the contest -- not one universe -- marvel or dc, and WHATEVER comprised each. it's clear through inference that that is what was at stake. we've seen the futility (over and over and over again . . .) of attempting to assign any universally accepted terminolgy (multiverse v universe v omniverse v . . . .) in these cosmic threads.

it was marvel vs dc. the stakes seem quite clear.