Pre-retcon Beyonder v.s. The Brothers (pre-retcon)

Originally posted by Galan007
Come on...

If they meant Beyonder erasing Death affected the Multiverse, the writers certainly would have written such pertinent information in the Bio. (and not left such a decision for the readers to decide)

Have you ever read a Official Marvel Bio?

You'll be lucky if you ever come across the Term "Multiverse" in anyone's Bio.

Other than the Living Tribunal's Bio, go and seek out the word "Multiverse" elsewhere, you'll find it difficult, perhaps impossible.

Marvel pratically terms ALL Feats concerning the Multiverse and beyond as "Universe" IN it's Bios.

Originally posted by Galan007
[B] It was only meant to be one universe (singular), in the Bio.

Anyone can see this just by how it was written.

Do you believe Reed Nullified the Multiverse during the Abraxas Arc?

I know you do, as I do, and many others because it happened On Panel.

ABRAXAS BIO - Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2006:

"Reed Nullified the "Universe" itself ... the "Universe" restored itself to it's previous normality"

It doesn't even mention ALL the damage done to the rest of the Multiverse.

In fact it doesn't mention the term, "Multiverse" at all.

Yet we know the Arc had everything to do with the Multiverse.

(Or do You think the Writers left the "decision for the readers to decide?"😉

testing

the brothers win
wow! thats all i will say i am not in the mood to embarass anybody today
but these arguments MIGHT be possible vs one of the brothers but two noway
yes i read the whole thread

Originally posted by starlock
the brothers win
wow! thats all i will say i am not in the mood to embarass anybody today
but these arguments MIGHT be possible vs one of the brothers but two noway
yes i read the whole thread

😉

"All the Power contained within ... MILLIONS of Times More than the Rest of the Power in the Multiverse Combined"

Beyonder is the Living Embodiment of Supreme Power (according to Reed)

(I know, ... Reed's Words only count when he once said Phoenix is the Big Bang) 😏

Just by Beyonder thinking to much .... Suns Implode ... Worlds Collide ...

Parallel Dimensions Collapse! (are these Universes?) 🙂

Even Post-Retcon Beyonder threatens the Marvel Omniverse:

"The Beyonder Walks amongst us ... He will Destroy Everything"

"The MultiverseS ... the Past ..the Present ... the Yet to Be ... will ALL be Destroyed"

imo the brother/s were intended to encompass ALL that had been seen in marvel and dc -- ALL univeres/multiverses/everything up til that time.

imo that would INCLUDE the beyonder, the beyond realm and everything else thereby making him less than they are/were. feat-wise they don't have too many to really compare, but i believe that was the original intent for the brothers. they were an idea that was bigger than any that preceded it to justify an event that both companies pumped up to be greater than anything they had done before.

have you wavered at all on the idea that something in the comicbook world can be said to have existed WITHIN the context of the comicbook world, BEFORE it was introduced to readers?

I made a discovery while thoroughly investigating these "Brothers"

(IMO) The "Brothers" were just ONE Universe Each, and NOTHING MORE.

The "Brothers" were NEVER a Multiverse letalone Multiverses or "All of Marvel & DC" 😂

Here we go!

"the Universe itself ripples with disturbance"

"Until They appeared in his Consciousness ... with enough Pain between them to level a Universe"

"when there's a Universe to save"

"cataclysmic fluctuations of the Universe"

"first law of the Universe, can never have to much duct tape"

The Brothers were ONE Universe each, and in battle they shattered into a Multiverse each, (OR DID THEY?)

"Fragments of their Essence blew in all directions, and as the Universe spread so did the Brothers"

(This ISN'T talking about the Brothers expanding with the Universe, this is referring to "SHARDS" of the Brothers that spread with the Universe)

"Remember the Brothers LOST Parts of themselves in the Big Bang "SHARDS"

"These "SHARDS" take different Forms"

"Other "SHARDS" become Parts of living Beings, Souls if you will"

"ever so often , One or Two become aware, like me and you"

A Multiverse might of been created, but these Brothers REMAINED A Universe EACH!

"Cosmos-shaking events tore the fabric of the Universe and redefined reality"

"in their Battle, some of each ended up in each OTHER'S Universe" (I thought they became a Multiverse?) SEE, it WASN'T them.

"Each of their respective Universes is superior to the Other's"

"They will Pit Their Super-Powered Beings against each other to end all wars"

"and End ONE Universe" (that was Blunt!)

"the Fate of the Universe"

"To say nothing of there still being a Universe"

"What I need is triumph, so my Universe can survive"

""Your Universe is in serious trouble"

"There's Our Universe and there's this Other ONE, like Ours but different"

"The Universes started MERGING ... Everything crossing from ONE to the Other"

"There are these TWO gods, Entities, ONE in each Universe ... BROTHERS"

"They're the embodiment of everything in their Universe"

"Now They've decided to find out Whose Universe is better ... we have to fight somebody from the Other Universe"

"The Losing Universe ... when it's all over only ONE Universe will Survive"

"In the Past, you and I have preserved Our TWO Universes by acting Together"

"Now we attempt to Save at least ONE"

"TWO Whole Universes EMBODIED in these BROTHERS"

"And I'm supposed to be some kind of "SHARD" from the TWO of Them"

"I'm a "SHARD" of the Brothers, just like you"

"I've been the Keeper of the Gateway between TWO Universes"

"It falls to You to preserve the Balance between the TWO Universes"

"I Lost, and maybe Doomed an entire Universe"

"ONE From EACH Universe ... We can still save Everything

(IN TWO Universes evidently)

The Battle is over and only ONE Universe is being spared ... but not the winning Universe"

"ONE Universe is being eliminated, but not the losing Universe"

"The Brothers are MERGING Realities, combining Universes"

(Actually we find out in the Next Issue, that the Living Tribunal and Spectre were the ones that MERGED the TWO Universes BY FORCE!)

When LT and Spectre MERGED the TWO Universes/Brothers, the Brothers became ONE Universe called the Amalgam Universe (basically a Mixture of BOTH)

"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER"

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

Access placed "SHARDS" (Fragments of the Brothers) within Captain America & Batman, which were still there even in their Archetypes in the ONE Amalgam Universe the Brothers had become.

Access gives Spectre & LT the Power of the "SHARDS" within Bats & Cap to Separate the TWO Universes without destroying then at the same time.

"I'm giving the Living Tribunal access to the Power within You, and we're using it to Restore the Universes"

It works!

"As it had come Together, the Universe that was an Amalgam of TWO Others blows apart"

"I wield a Portion, a Fragment of the Core Power of the Universes"

"the Bum helped me jump SOMEPLACE, INBETWEEN, SOMEPLACE where NO ASPECT of the BROTHERS EXISTED"

(I thought they were the WHOLE of Reality?) 😕

"For a moment Batman & Captain America FELL NOTHING, and THEN, they Continue to FEEL IT"

"they see what their minds allow them to grasp, Something that Represents the barest Fragment of the Reality or Unreality, that faces them"

Access placed "SHARDS" (Fragments of the Brothers) within Captain America & Batman, which were still there even in their Archetypes in the ONE Amalgam Universe the Brothers had become.

Access gives Spectre & LT the Power of the "SHARDS" within Bats & Cap to Separate the TWO Universes without destroying then at the same time.

"I'm giving the Living Tribunal access to the Power within You, and we're using it to Restore the Universes"

It works!

"As it had come Together, the Universe that was an Amalgam of TWO Others blows apart"

"I wield a Portion, a Fragment of the Core Power of the Universes"

"the Bum helped me jump SOMEPLACE, INBETWEEN, SOMEPLACE where NO ASPECT of the BROTHERS EXISTED"

(I thought they were the WHOLE of Reality?)

"For a moment Batman & Captain America FELL NOTHING, and THEN, they Continue to FEEL IT"

"they see what their minds allow them to grasp, Something that Represents the barest Fragment of the Reality or Unreality, that faces them"

This is quite funny.

The Brothers are no more than a few Hundred Feet tall here, and yet the Living Tribunal who overpowered the IG, (which made Thanos as BIG as a Universe) all of a sudden can't increase His Height? hum

Spectre who was manipulating "Bubbled Universes" all of a sudden can't assume a Height taller than 6' 5''? dontgetit

"Those "Specks on the Sword, the Spectre and Living Tribunal trying to hold back the Brothers"

Heck, Captain America & Batman are the same Height as LT and Spectre 😆

(For "SPECKS" the Living Tribunal and Spectre didn't ALLOW the Brothers to strike each other more than ONCE) LT & Spectre were NOT there for their First Strike.

(For "SPECKS" the Living Tribunal an Spectre MERGED BOTH Brothers into ONE Universe BY FORCE)

Not bad ey?

The Brothers finally get to Strike each other for the SECOND Time during this entire Saga.

The Brothers witness the Histories of both Batman and Captain America, and are impressed.

It's Over.

"the Brothers come to realization that they encompass the whole of reality"

(IN their TWO Universes EVIDENTLY and NO MORE than that)

Originally posted by Mr Master
I made a discovery while thoroughly investigating these "Brothers"

(IMO) The "Brothers" were just ONE Universe Each, and NOTHING MORE.

The "Brothers" were NEVER a Multiverse letalone Multiverses or "All of Marvel & DC" 😂

Here we go!

"the Universe itself ripples with disturbance"

"Until They appeared in his Consciousness ... with enough Pain between them to level a Universe"

"when there's a Universe to save"

"cataclysmic fluctuations of the Universe"

"first law of the Universe, can never have to much duct tape"

You yourself ealier has stated that sometime universe means multiverse. The brother's were more than mere Universes. I can't believe you even came up with that. The brothers represented the entirety of the companies. if they were just universes, they would have been nothing more than eternity or kismet. How in the hell would spectre and LT be but fleas to just an eternity lvl being? I"m not buying this one mr master.

c'mon mr master arent you going to spam us again,this is such a waste of space,do you even realize how much crap you just posted,do you really feel the need to win this match for the beyonder

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You yourself ealier has stated that sometime universe means multiverse.

True indeed,

Unless the story SPECIFIES Numbers like "ONE" or "TWO" Universes.

And this Story is FILLED with such SPECIFICATIONS!.

"They will Pit Their Super-Powered Beings against each other to end all wars"

"and End ONE Universe"

"There's Our Universe and there's this Other ONE, like Ours but different"

"There are these TWO gods, Entities, ONE in each Universe ... BROTHERS"

"They're the embodiment of everything in their Universe"

"Now They've decided to find out Whose Universe is better ... we have to fight somebody from the Other Universe"

"The Losing Universe ... when it's all over only ONE Universe will Survive"

"In the Past, you and I have preserved Our TWO Universes by acting Together"

"Now we attempt to Save at least ONE" [/B][/QUOTE]

"TWO Whole Universes EMBODIED in these BROTHERS"

"And I'm supposed to be some kind of "SHARD" from the TWO of Them"

"I'm a "SHARD" of the Brothers, just like you"

"I've been the Keeper of the Gateway between TWO Universes"

"The Battle is over and only ONE Universe is being spared ... but not the winning Universe"

"ONE Universe is being eliminated, but not the losing Universe"

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The brother's were more than mere Universes.

I disagree.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I can't believe you even came up with that. The brothers represented the entirety of the companies. if they were just universes, they would have been nothing more than eternity or kismet. How in the hell would spectre and LT be but fleas to just an eternity lvl being?

"Fleas?"

I think Not!

The Living Tribunal and Spectre took CONTROL of the "Brothers" by FORCE, and then MERGED the TWO Universes to Create an Amalgam Universe out of the TWO.

"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER"

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

Not bad for "Fleas" ey?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"m not buying this one mr master.

So don't.

Originally posted by Mr Master
True indeed,

Unless the story SPECIFIES Numbers like "ONE" or "TWO" Universes.

And this Story is FILLED with such SPECIFICATIONS!.

"They will Pit Their Super-Powered Beings against each other to end all wars"

"and End [B]ONE Universe"

"There's Our Universe and there's this Other ONE, like Ours but different"

"There are these TWO gods, Entities, ONE in each Universe ... BROTHERS"

"They're the embodiment of everything in their Universe"

"Now They've decided to find out Whose Universe is better ... we have to fight somebody from the Other Universe"

"The Losing Universe ... when it's all over only ONE Universe will Survive"

"In the Past, you and I have preserved Our TWO Universes by acting Together"

"Now we attempt to Save at least ONE" [/B]

"TWO Whole Universes EMBODIED in these BROTHERS"

"And I'm supposed to be some kind of "SHARD" from the TWO of Them"

"I'm a "SHARD" of the Brothers, just like you"

"I've been the Keeper of the Gateway between TWO Universes"

"The Battle is over and only ONE Universe is being spared ... but not the winning Universe"

"ONE Universe is being eliminated, but not the losing Universe"

I disagree.

"Fleas?"

I think Not!

The Living Tribunal and Spectre took CONTROL of the "Brothers" by FORCE, and then MERGED the TWO Universes to Create an Amalgam Universe out of the TWO.

"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre, are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER"

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

Not bad for "Fleas" ey?

So don't. [/B][/QUOTE]
First of all let me deconstruct your theory. When referring to one universe being destroyed, THey are refering to the one of the TWO which is DC vs. Marvel. Your shameless ploy at trying to finagle numbers without the given context is a shamble. For Two, Universe was used explicitly becuz an event of this magnitude would bring in readers who are not familiar with multiverses and such. So universes where used to simplify the cross over event. Given the fact that the Spectre and The LT are so far beyond Eternity and Kismet that it's not even funny, why would you even begin to think the Brother's were actually only one literal universe each when the spectre and the LT were nothing but specks to them? Come on you can do better than this. This is what you have sunk to just to win an argument? Any one with an analytical eye knows that One universebeing destroyed was referring to the ONE of the TWO which was the encompassing of all companies. Even the brothers colors are indicative that they represent the entirety of the companies. HENCE THE NAME DC VS MARVEL.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
First of all let me deconstruct your theory.

Unfortunately you never did.

And you ignored most of my post on top of that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When referring to one universe being destroyed, THey are refering to the one of the TWO which is DC vs. Marvel.

I disagree,

the story is full of contradictions and continuity mix-ups, the whole series is garbage honestly, which I don't intend to debate anymore because of it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your shameless ploy at trying to finagle numbers without the given context is a shamble.

No need for the disrespect, I'm being courteous, reply accordingly or you'll be ignored.

My First Post included, "IMO"

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
For Two, Universe was used explicitly becuz an event of this magnitude would bring in readers who are not familiar with multiverses and such. So universes where used to simplify the cross over event.

Your opinion,

show me where it's stated and I'll agree.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Given the fact that the Spectre and The LT are so far beyond Eternity and Kismet that it's not even funny, why would you even begin to think the Brother's were actually only one literal universe each when the spectre and the LT were nothing but specks to them?

What are you talking about?

They were ONE "literal Universe" Each to begin with. (Hey don't blame me for the "Contradictions" they themselves created)

I mean seriously just Read:

"Once before they Battled, 'ending and then beginning' all creation again, in the explosion the Brothers were blasted Apart, FRACTURING the NEW Born Universe into a Multiverse"

I assume you'll agree the "NEW Born" Universe was them, (being ONE NEW Born Universe each), and each NEW Born Universe became A Multiverse just like it clearly said On Panel.

So perhaps they were a Multiverse, it seems,

but that raises other questions,

how did they take over Eternity's position?

Where's Roma in this drama? 😕

Roma's territory is the Omniverse or even A Multiverse.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Come on you can do better than this. This is what you have sunk to just to win an argument?

Again, stick to the debate and don't get emotional.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Any one with an analytical eye knows that One universebeing destroyed was referring to the ONE of the TWO which was the encompassing of all companies. Even the brothers colors are indicative that they represent the entirety of the companies. HENCE THE NAME DC VS MARVEL.

Anyone with Eyes can also see and read what it clearly says On Panel.

"Once before they Battled, 'ending and then beginning' all creation again, in the explosion the Brothers were blasted Apart, Fracturing the New Born Universe into a Multiverse"

That's the most I'll give them,

and it Contradicts ALL of Marvel's Cosmology up to that point and after it as well.

Which is why I have never included these Brothers in my hierarchy.

They were retconned into Megaverses about 3 Months after this Marvel vs DC garbage in Adventures of the X-Men, so I'll except that.

My argument is geared towards this Marvel vs DC Arc, it should never be considered for it's complete disregard for the Marvel Cosmology and Continuity.

Look at this:

If the Brothers embodied ALL of Marvel and DC, what the heck is Access doing reaching Space that the Brothers Do NOT Encompassed?

"the Bum helped me jump SOMEPLACE, INBETWEEN, SOMEPLACE where NO ASPECT of the BROTHERS EXISTED"

(I thought they were the WHOLE of Reality?)

More contradictions.