Originally posted by grey fox
What about when Cain had all his flesh torn off ?He was skeletal and simply staled that he's 'powered by hate' or something like that
That was by a certain mystical power in which is one of the ways he can be harmed.
But notice. He didn't even feel any pain as he is speaking calmly.
Originally posted by AccelWell you can get a good indication by looking at all of his fights with Hulk cause Hulk didn't really hurt him at all. Not one time did he have his shield up, that's why Hulk lasted so long. If Juggy would have had his shield up he would have easily defeated Hulk. We know this cause in all of their fights Juggies helmet was knocked off, even against War Hulk.I'm primarily asking where exactly it was established that Cain is physically invulnerable to harm.
i think the major function of his forcefield is to keep him from being knocked around. like when he fights someone well below his strength class like venom and he gets hit and falls back and stuff. unhurt, but the impact still causes his body to move back, the forcefield just takes the kinetic energy before it reaches him, so he doesnt spend most of the fight getting back up from hits that arnt doing anything to him.
he does yell like hes in pain a bit, but always says he feels no pain. i think it is mostly a reflex, like if someone hits you with a balloon, you flinch, even though it only going to bounce off and have no real effect. in the fight with thor didnt he neutralise alot of the juggernauts powers, not just his forcefield?
Originally posted by long pigActually a rather crude version may have been shown in his first appreance ever. I say crude because basically all it was was his aura giving off so much energy that no one could get close to him even pushing Xavier backwards. While later people were managing to get close and touch so whether it was a permanet thing is doubtful.
I kinda agree, here.His shield is never mentioned until he's in a crossover comic. His shield is never shown or even used until Thor's comic, actually.
They pretty much invented the shield thing FOR Thor to overcome, I believe.
Anyone know previous appearances of the shield before Thor?
As for other durability feats he has had a gas tanker driven into him at high speeds without so much as moving coming out of the resulting inferno completely unscathed. He also harmlessly absrobed something like a million volts of electricity without so much a flinching.
In his encounter with Nightmare( a being that was able to almost effortlessly subdue Doctor Strange) he was taking blasts from him and punches without getting harmed only later to be thrown into oblivion by Eternity.
In his fight with the Hulk he makes several mentions after being hit by the Hulk that he is completely unhurt and unfazed.
His his fights with Exemplars he takes attacks that are supposed to be astronomical in force without being fazed or hurt.
Later he fightsStonecutter and trades blows that are said to be the strongest ever felt on Earth and he does it without being harmed.
Remember that all these feats make no mention of his shield and all the attacks actually touch him so no shield was actually being used.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Well you can get a good indication by looking at all of his fights with Hulk cause Hulk didn't really hurt him at all. Not one time did he have his shield up, that's why Hulk lasted so long. If Juggy would have had his shield up he would have easily defeated Hulk. We know this cause in all of their fights Juggies helmet was knocked off, even against War Hulk.
And I'm not convinced he's completely invulnerable from their fights. In their first fight, Juggernaut knocks him down from behind and can take a punch from Hulk while he's down. In the later when Juggernaut was in street clothes, Professor Hulk held back, not knowing who he was up against. And against War Hulk, Juggernaut was pretty much knocked around and apparently had a moment of doubt in the fight.
I'd consider those moments good indications that he's extremely durable, but not good indications that he's completely invulnerable.
Originally posted by AccelActually in his first fight he makes mention after getting punched and trwon around that he literally is unfazed and that Hulk must not know who he is that is completely unstoppable.
How do you figure he'd win easily? If his shield was up, they wouldn't be able to fight and nothing would happen.And I'm not convinced he's completely invulnerable from their fights. In their first fight, Juggernaut knocks him down from behind and can take a punch from Hulk while he's down. In the later when Juggernaut was in street clothes, Professor Hulk held back, not knowing who he was up against. And against War Hulk, Juggernaut was pretty much knocked around and apparently had a moment of doubt in the fight.
I'd consider those moments good indications that he's extremely durable, but not good indications that he's completely invulnerable.
The only reason he doubted himself was basically because Hulk managed to stop him. But if you notice he was completely unfazed by War Hulk's attacks.
Originally posted by AccelHe backhanded Thor with no trouble with his shield up. Or are you saying Juggy cannot attack when his shield is up?
How do you figure he'd win easily? If his shield was up, they wouldn't be able to fight and nothing would happen.And I'm not convinced he's completely invulnerable from their fights. In their first fight, Juggernaut knocks him down from behind and can take a punch from Hulk while he's down. In the later when Juggernaut was in street clothes, Professor Hulk held back, not knowing who he was up against. And against War Hulk, Juggernaut was pretty much knocked around and apparently had a moment of doubt in the fight.
I'd consider those moments good indications that he's extremely durable, but not good indications that he's completely invulnerable.
In their first fight Hulk was doing no damage. Hulk #402 I don't think Hulk was holding back. Hulk even braced himself and said nothing can move him when he's braced. Juggy then moved Hulk easily. I would think Hulk would have taken the kid gloves off by then. War Hulk who was amped still could not hurt Juggy even with his shield down.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
He backhanded Thor with no trouble with his shield up. Or are you saying Juggy cannot attack when his shield is up?In their first fight Hulk was doing no damage. Hulk #402 I don't think Hulk was holding back. Hulk even braced himself and said nothing can move him when he's braced. Juggy then moved Hulk easily. I would think Hulk would have taken the kid gloves off by then. War Hulk who was amped still could not hurt Juggy even with his shield down.
Professor Hulk was basically holding back because he kept underestimating his opponent. AT first he thought the "construction worker" was just stronger than he thought. Naturally, he kept trying harder and harder as the fight went on, but since he still didn't know just how tough his opponent was, he didn't go all out. Juggernaut even commented later on that Hulk fell for his trick of dressing up in street clothes.
Originally posted by AccelDidn't Hulk see Juggy with his helmet off though? I mean how many times would he have to push Hulk around. He even held Hulk underwater against his will! I don't buy it that Hulk wasn't trying.
Generally, when his shield is shown, it's shown like an invisible bubble surrounding him, like when he slowed down the momentum of Mjolnir.Professor Hulk was basically holding back because he kept underestimating his opponent. AT first he thought the "construction worker" was just stronger than he thought. Naturally, he kept trying harder and harder as the fight went on, but since he still didn't know just how tough his opponent was, he didn't go all out. Juggernaut even commented later on that Hulk fell for his trick of dressing up in street clothes.
And I remember him making the comment on wearing street clothes. He said he used the same tactic on Colossus before or something.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Didn't Hulk see Juggy with his helmet off though? I mean how many times would he have to push Hulk around. He even held Hulk underwater against his will! I don't buy it that Hulk wasn't trying.And I remember him making the comment on wearing street clothes. He said he used the same tactic on Colossus before or something.
Originally posted by AccelI don't buy that Hulk was holding back. The "construction worker" moved Hulk when Hulk didn't want him to, survived a fall from a tall waterfall, held Hulk against his will underwater, escaped quicksand etc. Those feats are obviously above a regular person. That's how I see it.
I didn't say he wasn't trying at all, just not going all out. He obviously didn't know it was Juggernaut, despite, as he kept wondering who it was he was dealing with.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't buy that Hulk was holding back. The "construction worker" moved Hulk when Hulk didn't want him to, survived a fall from a tall waterfall, held Hulk against his will underwater, escaped quicksand etc. Those feats are obviously above a regular person. That's how I see it.
Cain caught him by surprise and he completely underestimated his opponent.
If he wasn't holding back, then he wouldn't have tried to save him from drowning. Nor would he pause the fight to question him about his identity. Or anything else for that matter.
Besides, hulk bracing himself and Juggernaut moving him doesn't mean anything because the Hulk is not immovable by any means. Anyone strong enough to be in the class 100 category can theoretically move him.
Originally posted by DinalfosYeah but at some point when your getting beat down you figure someone would fight back harder then what they were besides the fact Cain KOed him so even if he was holding back he still didn't have the dirability to take the pounding
If he wasn't holding back, then he wouldn't have tried to save him from drowning. Nor would he pause the fight to question him about his identity. Or anything else for that matter.
Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah but at some point when your getting beat down you figure someone would fight back harder then what they were besides the fact Cain KOed him so even if he was holding back he still didn't have the dirability to take the pounding
😬
Prof. Hulk is a tad bit arrogant and overconfident. And of course, he's nowhere near invulnerable to harm like Juggernaut is. But I think it has more to do with the sloppy writing in that issue. Peter David has commented on this and not a whole lot of his vision of the fight is actually reflected on panel.
Originally posted by DinalfosMore than likely yes
Prof. Hulk is a tad bit arrogant and overconfident. And of course, he's nowhere near invulnerable to harm like Juggernaut is. But I think it has more to do with the sloppy writing in that issue. Peter David has commented on this and not a whole lot of his vision of the fight is actually reflected on panel.
quick qeustion though what was Peter david's comments on the fight?
Originally posted by Newjak
More than likely yesquick qeustion though what was Peter david's comments on the fight?
I believe he intended it to be a lesson in humility for him. He wanted to show that he got lazy, overconfident and too reliant on the support of his teammates of The Pantheon. Now that last part is actually said in the comic, but he also wanted to make sure that this wasn't a regular fight. He wanted Hulk to underestimate his opponent, hold back, and be caught off guard. Unfortunately, he wrote the script in such a way that it left too many (valid) questions unanswered.
Originally posted by DinalfosWell you'll find that with any Juggernaut-Hulk fight. Basically Marvel at the times refused to give a fair and balanced fight to conclude a winner btween the two. It was probably more of the editers refusing to really give anyone a clear advantage.
I believe he intended it to be a lesson in humility for him. He wanted to show that he got lazy, overconfident and too reliant on his teammates of the Pantheon. Now that last part is actually said in the comic, but he also wanted to make sure that this wasn't a regular fight. He wanted Hulk to underestimate his opponent, hold back, and be caught off guard. Unfortunately, he wrote the script in such a way that it left too many (valid) questions unanswered.
Originally posted by Newjak
Well you'll find that with any Juggernaut-Hulk fight. Basically Marvel at the times refused to give a fair and balanced fight to conclude a winner btween the two. It was probably more of the editers refusing to really give anyone a clear advantage.
Oh absolutely. That's why I really hate Marvel sometimes 😉