Sidious vs Yoda

Actually no, Escape is right, the lightning does not hit Sidious whatsoever in the struggle. If you look at the picture I've provided you'll notice the lightning ball explodes in between Sidious and Yoda, it does not hit Sidious. What happened here is akin to the force push battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan except on a much larger scale of power. The ball exploded because of the two equal amounts of "pressure" being applied on each side of it, causing a kind of cancellation effect with a huge shock wave that knocked both contestants back. This moment was to show that Yoda and Sidious were indeed equal in terms of force power, but due to Sidious' superior position inside the pod, and Yoda's position on the edge of the pod, coupled with Yoda's much smaller body, caused Yoda to be thrown back further then Sidious, and thus effectively getting TKO'd. However, the main point to realise here was that no one won this force exchange, but no one lost either. The blast was caused from too much pressure being applied to it on each side equally, thus making it explode between them, Yoda however, was again at a disadvantage, and Sidious, again, had superior footing. (making him a better fighter as he takes advantage of whats around him and uses it to his advantage)

Heres the Screen Caps.

1. I don't even know why you're posting screencaps, as the final exchange happened far too quickly for anyone to claim to see exactly what just happened.

2. You would only be correct if they were both applying the same amount of pressure, however given that Yoda had superior control over the lightning directly before the explosion, you're incorrect.

Umm, no, if you had eyes you could clearly tell that the lighting was in-between them. It really doesn't happen that fast, not even in the slightest, as a matter of fact the picture SHOWS the lighting between them, and then it explodes between them. And Yoda didn't have superior control of the lighting, he merely was equalling out Sidious' own power, because before that point Sidious was out muscling him, Yoda then applied more pressure, and equalled it, causing the explosion. But as I said, Sidious is smarter and better as using his environment, and thus he was again in a superior position, and won the fight by a technicality.

And he's a link. If you cant see what happens, then you're simply too slow or not paying enough attention to whats happening. Which isnt my fault. you can even see a GAP in between Sidious and the lighting before it explodes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsSkrgqrCgc&mode=related&search=

Here take a look again. Pretty obvious in still pictures isnt it?

Originally posted by allfg
1. I don't even know why you're posting screencaps, as the final exchange happened far too quickly for anyone to claim to see exactly what just happened.

2. You would only be correct if they were both applying the same amount of pressure, however given that Yoda had superior control over the lightning directly before the explosion, you're incorrect. [/B]

The pressure was equal dipshit, that's why they both went flying. Someone hasn't learned physics yet.

Nebaris, as a token of good faith, I'm not going to start off my flinging insults at you or giving you my affectionate nickname. I'm going to try to have a mature debate with you, though previous attempts have been futile; but in order for that to happen, your excuses need to stop.

The Anomaly provided the screencaps of the "energy duel". Now, you can sit here and claim that the scene happened to quickly for anyone to see - but the camera doesn't lie. The energy ball never touches Sidious. At the first part of it, the ball of energy forms on Yoda's hands, as that is where the lightning is stopping.

Yoda is in a considerable amount of pain from keeping the energy at bay. Sidious is laughing. This pisses Yoda off, and he pushes the energy ball forward. But the lightning never touches Sidious.

Edit: DS, as for the "I'm screwed" look, I don't doubt it. Sidious was obviously afraid of Yoda. But that isn't equal or greater than physical pain. Yoda was the one getting hurt. Sidious was just afraid.

Escape, what you need to understand is, even though Sidious was enjoying himself while throwing those pods, Yoda stopped one of his at the very last second. When he threw it back up, Sidious had MORE than enough time to stop something that was headed UP at him, but he couldn't. We've had this argument before and I think this is the first time I bring up this point.

I actually disagree with that. Sidious didn't even seem to care until it was like half way to hitting him. Had he not been so cocky (and well...Sith like) he would have cared that Yoda had caught the pod and was hurling it back at him. Sidious is laughing at Yoda like an idiot, while Yoda is taking his sweet time getting ready to throw it back, and then he does, at which point Sidious is STILL laughing, and then gives a look of "Oh...oops". That doesn't mean he couldn't have thrown it back, it just means he wasn't paying enough attention to care because he was in one of his self absorbed moments of glee. He then was thrown back into reality when the pod was more then half way there to hitting him, at which point it was too late to attempt to stop it. Had he been paying attention he would have been able to stop it, or at least enter a battle over control of the pod. But he didn't because he's a Sith and is arrogant, and sometimes stupid.

Nice arguments Anomally!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, what you need to understand is, even though Sidious was enjoying himself while throwing those pods, Yoda stopped one of his at the very last second. When he threw it back up, Sidious had MORE than enough time to stop something that was headed UP at him, but he couldn't. We've had this argument before and I think this is the first time I bring up this point.

Pardon the skepticism, but Sidious has the power to throw three pods up in the air - in direct defiance with gravity - and then toss them down at Yoda, but lacks the power to stop a pod from coming to him from a lower position?

Sorry. That makes no sense.

Originally posted by Gideon
Pardon the skepticism, but Sidious has the power to throw [B]three pods up in the air - in direct defiance with gravity - and then toss them down at Yoda, but lacks the power to stop a pod from coming to him from a lower position?

Sorry. That makes no sense. [/B]

We've argued about how high he picked those pods up and threw them down, and how Yoda stopped a full speed pod at the very last second, and threw it back up. Even though Sidious DID see it half way, he had ample time to stop it, considering Yoda stopped it at the very last second, when it was what, a few inches from him?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
We've argued about how high he picked those pods up and threw them down, and how Yoda stopped a full speed pod at the very last second, and threw it back up. Even though Sidious DID see it half way, he had ample time to stop it, considering Yoda stopped it at the very last second, when it was what, a few inches from him?

We've argued about this fight dozens of times. No one can sit here and say Yoda's feat is superior to Sidious's, nor can it be argued otherwise. Sidious tossed three in the air, in direct defiance with gravity, with out any strain or effort. Yoda, like it or not, had immense difficulty stopping a single pod and tossing it back. But, we also have to take into consideration that, indeed, Yoda had to stop the pod at full speed. That is impressive, but not enough to make me think for a second that Yoda's feat is more impressive.

Likewise, your point makes no sense for two reasons:

Reason A: Sidious managed to toss three pods in direct defiance with gravity effortlessly. Your assertion that he couldn't stop one that was being tossed from an inferior position (which is easier than stopping one from coming down - basically, it would require less power and less effort than it took Yoda to stop his) contradicts that, and isn't valid.

Reason B: Considering how it'd take less effort than it took Yoda to stop a pod, it would contradict the "equals!" setting, and put Yoda as a more powerful Force user, which he isn't.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
We've argued about how high he picked those pods up and threw them down, and how Yoda stopped a full speed pod at the very last second, and threw it back up. Even though Sidious DID see it half way, he had ample time to stop it, considering Yoda stopped it at the very last second, when it was what, a few inches from him?

There is a difference though, as Yoda had put considerable force into launching the pod at Sids, where Sids was basically just dropping them on Yoda and applying no added pressure. So all Yoda had to do was stop gravity, Sidious would have had to equal Yoda's Force force (lol) to stop it, which is considerably more difficult. (as we saw with the lightning duel). Either way, I think Sidious just decided it was pointless to attempt to try and stop the pod even if he could have, I think he decided he'd rather just casually step out of the way (which he did) and engage Yoda in a duel which he felt more inclined that he could win, a la force lightning (as its his specialty). So heres the possibilities:

1) Sidious was laughing like a fool and was too late to attempt to equal Yoda's force power behind the pod by the time he decided to care that it was being hurled at his face. (which was admittedly a bad move by Sidious in the first place to not be paying attention)

2) Sidious decided he'd rather not duel Yoda over control of the pod and duel him in something which he felt more comfortable at winning, namely, force lighting.

It makes no sense to say that Sidious, in no way had the power to fight Yoda over control of the pod, as he clearly does have that power. So its either the fact that he didn't care and opted out for something more in his favour (which would be a typical Sidious move) or it was his mistake at not paying attention and not caring what Yoda was doing. But it makes no sense to say that he, in no way ever, could have stopped that pod.

Originally posted by Gideon
We've argued about this fight dozens of times. No one can sit here and say Yoda's feat is superior to Sidious's, nor can it be argued otherwise. Sidious tossed three in the air, in direct defiance with gravity, with out any strain or effort. Yoda, like it or not, had immense difficulty stopping a single pod and tossing it back. But, we also have to take into consideration that, indeed, Yoda had to stop the pod at full speed. That is impressive, but not enough to make me think for a second that Yoda's feat is more impressive.

Likewise, your point makes no sense for two reasons:

Reason A: Sidious managed to toss three pods in direct defiance with gravity effortlessly. Your assertion that he couldn't stop one that was being tossed from an inferior position (which is easier than stopping one from coming down - basically, it would require less power and less effort than it took Yoda to stop his) contradicts that, and isn't valid.
Sidious managed to toss 3 in defiance of gravity, but how high did he raise them, can you tell me? And how does that prove that he can stop a full speed pod coming right at him, just because he was able to lift 3 stationary pods and toss them down?
[quote]Reason B: Considering how it'd take less effort than it took Yoda to stop a pod, it would contradict the "equals!" setting, and put Yoda as a more powerful Force user, which he isn't. [/B]

Sorry, I cant stay to argue. I gotta go to work...hang

OK, I hadn't seen the screen caps before I posted, so conceded, but really, it doesn't make sense. Yoda had just started to gain his composure and a handle on the lightning, and Sidious was already losing control, and seeing as Yoda was already putting more pressure on the energy ball than Sidious was (it was moving away from Yoda and towards Sidious, thus a higher push coming from Yoda), there's no reason to suggest that Sidious was suddenly able to match the pressure Yoda was putting on the energy ball, but whatever.

Originally posted by Gideon
It looks like we'll be sitting here all day if you want to go that route. "Yoda had the power to throw Sidious violently into his office chair." You're right, and he did so after he recovered from being knocked unconscious by Sidious in the first place. I would like to point out that Palpatine could have very easily killed Yoda right then and there - but chose to gloat instead. And then I'd also like to point out that Sidious immediately recovered from that.

Not exactly an "awe-inspiring" power, right there, Seraphim. 🙄

We could, but, I honestly don't think Sidious could have just killed Yoda or he would've. It was obvious he was aware of Yoda's power, being why he hauled ass and decided to attempt to run out of his own office.

Yeah, all day is right.

Sidious lost his lightsaber to Yoda? When was this confirmed, exactly? I don't recall this being shown in the movie or confirmed in the novelization. For all you know, he put it away and opted for a long range assault. Unless you're suggesting that a completely defenseless Sidious managed to evade Yoda for long enough to put that much distance between him and Yoda.

Actually, in the novelisation, Yoda doesn't lose his lightsaber. It mentions him CUTTING THE WIRING in the service vent during his escape with his Lightsaber. And the whereabouts of Sidious' lightsaber is unknown. I don't know when he loses it.

And, no. I'm not saying Yoda can only do it once. I said he was only prepared to do it once. One out of three. That's not good.

Prepared to do it once? If you played by your logic, because he did it once and it's expendable to say he can only do it once, it's easy to say because he displayed himself doing it, he can do it several times and whenever he pleases.

Lmao. Sidious's tactics are vastly superior to Yoda's.

Is this why he couldn't defeat him?

He manipulates the environment and puts distance between him and his attacker.

And Yoda managed to squash his manipulation of the enviroment by throwing his own tactic back in his face.

According to you, Sidious was disarmed, so that means he managed to evade Yoda from close quarters combat and put a vast amount of distance in between himself and Yoda before Yoda could kill him. He also has no problem using "underhanded" and "surprise" tactics. He disabled Yoda into unconsciousness at the beginning of the fight. He also controlled the fight insofar as the environment, and switched it from the relatively isolated Chancellor's office to the massive Rotunda.

You sit here and you mention nothing but how Sidious perpetually disabled Yoda while ignoring the fact that Yoda had Sidious running after he forced pushed him and that their Lightsaber fighting was a stalemate and same with the force.

Sidious was disarmed. You see his Lightsaber anywhere.

As for Sidious and Yoda in the pods, need I also remind you that Sidious - at that point - wasn't even taking the fight seriously? He spent his entire time just laughing at Yoda, and the pod was more than half way there when he opened his eyes to acknowledge it. Then he spun away.

This display of bias is getting overwhelming. Him laughing isn't proof he wasn't taking it seriously. Sidious is insane, might I remind you. Dooku was smiling and being a smartass during his fight with Anakin. I guess he lost because he wasn't taking it seriously.

So, Sidious wasn't being aware? Or did he just realize that Yoda was in for the game as well? And I wouldn't be taking shit seriously if I was chucking pods downwards at someone either.

Wrong. Yoda did not "throw the lightning back into Sidious's face". Sidious was blasting Yoda with lightning, who managed to block it with his hands. But Sidious kept forcing Yoda back, who was grimacing in pain. The lightning collected into an energy ball at the tips of Yoda's hands. Yoda finally overcame the pain and pushed the energy ball directly in between them. He did not hit Sidious at all.

Is this why Sidious flew back? Have you seen the movie? He was holding the energy in front of him and Yoda basically released his absorbsion and the lightning virtually exploded, so to say. It knocked Sidious back and Yoda flew back as yell. Yoda just flew back farther because he obviously weighs less.

Really. If it hit "Sidious in his face", then it would've knocked only Sidious away. 🙄

Figure of speech, partner.

Is this beyond your comprehension? Your example with Anakin is beyond ridiculous. I didn't say that Sidious's Force powers will determine the outcome - I said that he has an advantage because his range of Force powers exceeds Yoda's own. Anakin went completely berserk on Obi-Wan, and didn't use Force powers except for once, and all they did was a Force push, which is not a dark side Force power.

How do you know his range of powers exceeds Yodas? What is this? Seriously? Just because he showed more skill? That's like saying Mace sucks at the force because he barely expresses it's usage. You're arguing out of ignorance. A Force push is a neutral power and they both stalemated. Besides, Anakin obviously could not surpass Obi Wan, as skilled as he was.

Yoda's Force skills are equal to Sidious's, but Sidious has more power to bring to this fight - and Sidious's tactics are obviously superior. I'm not saying that Sidious will win, because I - too - think that this was a stalemate.

Okay, they're equal, but Sidious has more power? How? You call my arguments poorly constructed? You're slinging claims around like a cracked out hyena and you're not even backing them up.

Try again, please.

But if you're going to come with these poorly constructed arguments, then we'll just agree to disagree, because you don't know what you're talking about. [/B]

Then we share something in common.

Oh and to Anomaly's claim that the lightning didn't touch Sidious:

The tiny Jedi held one pod with the Force and sent it back to Sidious, who avoided it and retaliated by hurling Force lightning at him so intense that it knocked Yoda's lightsaber from his hand. Again finding himself attacked with great intensity, Yoda used the same method to overcome the attack: he turned his enemy's weapon's against him. The Jedi Master reflected the Force lightning back to Sidious in a blast so powerful that it pushed the two masters apart. But while this may have saved Yoda's life, it cost him his last chance of obliterating the Sith. He fell down to the holding office while Palpatine held on to the pod they were on.

I guess Palpatine was holding onto the pod because he slipped.

We could, but, I honestly don't think Sidious could have just killed Yoda or he would've. It was obvious he was aware of Yoda's power, being why he hauled ass and decided to attempt to run out of his own office.

If this is the best that you can do, then don't bother replying. What you "think" doesn't matter. Sidious knocked Yoda unconscious. Period. The end. If he took Yoda seriously at that point (emphasis on "at that point"😉, he would have killed him. Period.

It was obvious that he didn't want to fight Yoda after he made the mistake of not killing him when he had the chance. Your point is moot.

Yeah, all day is right.

No, lmao, it won't. Because if you're going to debate as poorly as you are doing now, you and I will just agree to disagree, and I'll ignore you. You'd best think a bit harder if you want to debate with me.

Actually, in the novelisation, Yoda doesn't lose his lightsaber. It mentions him CUTTING THE WIRING in the service vent during his escape with his Lightsaber. And the whereabouts of Sidious' lightsaber is unknown. I don't know when he loses it.

Further observation leads me to speculate that you are arguing out of ignorance. I never said that Yoda's disarming was confirmed in the novelization - I said that Sidious's wasn't. In either case, Yoda was shown to be disarmed in the movies (which is the highest form of canon outside of Lucas's own word), which means that it happened.

And, correction: You don't know if Sidious loses it. Because it was not confirmed in either the novelization or in the movie.

Prepared to do it once? If you played by your logic, because he did it once and it's expendable to say he can only do it once, it's easy to say because he displayed himself doing it, he can do it several times and whenever he pleases.

Better yet, I'll use your logic and say that if Yoda could have done it earlier, he would have. 🙄

But, I'm not an ignorant debater, so we'll take the circumstances into situation. Yoda was unable to block and repel Sidious's lightning because he wasn't prepared to do so (which is his own fault). Hence why I said that only a prepared Yoda can feasibly block Sidious's lightning.

Is this why he couldn't defeat him?

It was a stalemate due to the circumstances of the fight, but if you need further clarification, Yoda was the one who ultimately fled, and it was Sidious who went on to rule the galaxy for twenty years. Lmao. Don't play this game with me, 'cuz you're gonna lose.

And Yoda managed to squash his manipulation of the enviroment by throwing his own tactic back in his face.

Lmao, and you accuse me of bias. Yoda "squashed" nothing and didn't throw "anything" back in Sidious's face. Double standards?

You sit here and you mention nothing but how Sidious perpetually disabled Yoda while ignoring the fact that Yoda had Sidious running after he forced pushed him and that their Lightsaber fighting was a stalemate and same with the force.

Wrong. Sidious knocked Yoda unconscious, and decided to gloat about his victory over the Jedi. But, like it or not, he was well in a position to kill Yoda at that point - who was busy taking a bit of a nap. At that point, Sidious wasn't taking Yoda seriously at all. Period. However, when Yoda recovered, it was then that Sidious's self-confidence began to dwindle, and he opted to flee instead of fight. Which is pretty smart, given that both of them are equals and he could have potentially died in that fight. Yoda had nothing to lose. Sidious did.

Sidious was disarmed. You see his Lightsaber anywhere.

Prove he was disarmed. Prove that he didn't simply put it away and opt for a long range fight.

See, the problem with your theory is that when we last saw Sidious with his lightsaber - he was in the middle of close quarters combat with Yoda on that podium. Assuming he lost his lightsaber would mean that Sidious was unarmed in arm's reach of Yoda - who still had his lightsaber, and according to you, Yoda can handle Sidious's lightning pretty handily.

Explain how an unarmed Sidious with no advantages over Yoda managed to evade Yoda in close quarters combat and put that much distance between himself and Yoda to get to the pods. 🙂

This display of bias is getting overwhelming. Him laughing isn't proof he wasn't taking it seriously. Sidious is insane, might I remind you. Dooku was smiling and being a smartass during his fight with Anakin. I guess he lost because he wasn't taking it seriously.

Sidious is insane? Oh, I disagree. I doubt someone insane (isn't insanity the absence of rationalization?) could meticulously plot his rise to power for several decades (and then succeed). People say the same thing about Hitler, when the truth is, he was not "legally" insane - but actually a very rational person. At least, before and during most of the war. People call him insane because of what he attempted to accomplish.

Anyways, as for Dooku, no. At several points in his fight with Anakin, there's nothing to say that he was taking it seriously. He firmly believed he had the upper hand. It is only when he realized that Anakin's raw power surpassed his that he began to worry. But, of course, by that time, it was far too late.

So, Sidious wasn't being aware? Or did he just realize that Yoda was in for the game as well? And I wouldn't be taking shit seriously if I was chucking pods downwards at someone either.

You see Sidious with his eyes closed, laughing into his hand after he threw the pods. How can he be aware of what's happening when he's laughing his ass off with his eyes closed.

Is this why Sidious flew back? Have you seen the movie? He was holding the energy in front of him and Yoda basically released his absorbsion and the lightning virtually exploded, so to say. It knocked Sidious back and Yoda flew back as yell. Yoda just flew back farther because he obviously weighs less.

Do you suffer from retardation, my friend? You didn't read or comprehend what I said. Sidious was not hit by the ball of lightning. That's all I said. The collected ball of energy was much closer to Yoda than it was to Sidious at the start of the fight, as it collected due to Yoda's blocking. When Yoda "put on his mean face", he managed to push the energy directly in between them - but couldn't get it any farther and that is when the energy detonated.

I never said that Yoda "flew back farther" because he was less powerful. He just weighed less.

Figure of speech, partner.

What the hell is this? Broke Back Mountain? I'm not your partner.

How do you know his range of powers exceeds Yodas? What is this? Seriously? Just because he showed more skill? That's like saying Mace sucks at the force because he barely expresses it's usage. You're arguing out of ignorance. A Force push is a neutral power and they both stalemated. Besides, Anakin obviously could not surpass Obi Wan, as skilled as he was.

Lmao. He has more "range" because he's a dark side user. Meaning he has access to all of the "neutral" Force powers and then some. Yoda? Just the standard Force attacks. Comprehension is beyond you, isn't it?

Wow. You have no damn clue what you're talking about. "Anakin obviously could not surpass Obi-Wan, skilled as he was". Which is why they were both knocked back. Neither of them overcame the other in that little Force fight.

Okay, they're equal, but Sidious has more power? How? You call my arguments poorly constructed? You're slinging claims around like a cracked out hyena and you're not even backing them up.

"Has more power to bring to the fight" - meaning he has a wider range of powers. Jesus. They should make IQ tests mandatory for access to KMC. I never said that Sidious "is more powerful".

Try again, please.

I think you need to take your own advice, Dr. Phil.

Then we share something in common.

Not really. From what I've seen, we don't have anything in common. You're pretty smart, but being smart =/= being a good debater. You're not a good debater. Watch some other people debate, and then when you think you've got a good argument, we'll talk. Otherwise, just don't bring this subject up anymore. You see, the way you're going, the less imput you give - the smarter you appear.

Oh and to Anomaly's claim that the lightning didn't touch Sidious:

The tiny Jedi held one pod with the Force and sent it back to Sidious, who avoided it and retaliated by hurling Force lightning at him so intense that it knocked Yoda's lightsaber from his hand. Again finding himself attacked with great intensity, Yoda used the same method to overcome the attack: he turned his enemy's weapon's against him. The Jedi Master reflected the Force lightning back to Sidious in a blast so powerful that it pushed the two masters apart. But while this may have saved Yoda's life, it cost him his last chance of obliterating the Sith. He fell down to the holding office while Palpatine held on to the pod they were on.

I guess Palpatine was holding onto the pod because he slipped.

Lmao. This is from Wookipedia. Wookipedia is not a source. Your point is completely invalid and his still stands.

Don't bother replying. It'll be ignored.

Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Oh and to Anomaly's claim that the lightning didn't touch Sidious:

The tiny Jedi held one pod with the Force and sent it back to Sidious, who avoided it and retaliated by hurling Force lightning at him so intense that it knocked Yoda's lightsaber from his hand. Again finding himself attacked with great intensity, Yoda used the same method to overcome the attack: he turned his enemy's weapon's against him. [b]The Jedi Master reflected the Force lightning back to Sidious in a blast so powerful that it pushed the two masters apart. But while this may have saved Yoda's life, it cost him his last chance of obliterating the Sith. He fell down to the holding office while Palpatine held on to the pod they were on.

I guess Palpatine was holding onto the pod because he slipped. [/B]

Good Ol' Wikipedia/Wookiepedia sources, they're such high canon that none can dispute them. 🙄

Seriously, you'd better come up with something other then a (Wookie)Wikipedia source when screen caps FROM THE MOVIE (meaning the actual..ya know...Star Wars movie) say completely the opposite.

Good argument escape. Except if you use the clarification of Sidious walking away from the fight and ruling the galaxy for 20 years, I can respond with "Well Yoda got away and trained the most powerful force user ever, who ended the Emperor". Doesn't really matter, thought I would add that for no apparent reason, but good rebuttal.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good argument escape. Except if you use the clarification of Sidious walking away from the fight and ruling the galaxy for 20 years, I can respond with "Well Yoda got away and trained the most powerful force user ever, who ended the Emperor". Doesn't really matter, thought I would add that for no apparent reason, but good rebuttal.

Haha, humm...intresting point. I never thought of that before. 😮‍💨