If Anakin is in "teh zone", then he - by himself - will defeat Bane in lightsaber combat .
Could you explain why you think this is, Gideon? Anakin pulled off a rather unorthodox trick and took down Dooku in that instance, but can he also repeat the same trick against Bane? They are both Djem So practitioners. If I had to make a choice, backed up by facts, I would give Bane the strength and speed advantage due to his orbalisks pumping him constantly with “strength and adrenaline.” Anakin can’t flaunt the “kinetic energy” generated by his movements because Bane will be generating an equal if not more amount of “kinetic energy.”
Anakin’s only chance is to hit Bane on his only unprotected area; the face. Bane can strike Anakin in virtually any part of his body.
Even if Anakin manages to strike Bane’s face, he’ll have to make it count, since the orbalisks regenerate his tissue instantaneously. Otherwise, DarthSith and Nebaris have summarized most of the details rather well. Bane has demonstrated abilities (in BOTS and PoD) that surpass Anakin’s own considerable skills. If the comics that depicted the midget Yoda lifting a load of artillery can be taken seriously, then Bane’s connection to the force can enhance his physical strength and speed considerably as well.
Anakin’s force abilities are likewise on the level of Obi Wan. They were both caught in a “force lock,” neither one able to overcome the other. In certain one time instances he is able to do some nifty things with the force, but they are instinctual and cannot be relegated to a specific duel. Bane, I think it is rather obvious, is better at using the force offensively.
His only chance, IMO, is to team up with Kenobi.
Originally posted by zephiel7
Could you explain why you think this is, Gideon? Anakin pulled off a rather unorthodox trick and took down Dooku in that instance, but can he also repeat the same trick against Bane? They are both Djem So practitioners. If I had to make a choice, backed up by facts, I would give Bane the strength and speed advantage due to his orbalisks pumping him constantly with “strength and adrenaline.” Anakin can’t flaunt the “kinetic energy” generated by his movements because Bane will be generating an equal if not [b]more amount of “kinetic energy.”
Anakin’s only chance is to hit Bane on his only unprotected area; the face. Bane can strike Anakin in virtually any part of his body.
Even if Anakin manages to strike Bane’s face, he’ll have to make it count, since the orbalisks regenerate his tissue instantaneously. Otherwise, DarthSith and Nebaris have summarized most of the details rather well. Bane has demonstrated abilities (in BOTS and PoD) that surpass Anakin’s own considerable skills. If the comics that depicted the midget Yoda lifting a load of artillery can be taken seriously, then Bane’s connection to the force can enhance his physical strength and speed by considerably.
Nice to mention sabers can cut through any material in the galaxy. Orbalisks were never once tested in battle
Anakin’s force abilities are likewise on the level of Obi Wan. They were both caught in a “force lock,” neither one able to overcome the other. In certain one time instances he is able to do some nifty things with the force, but they are instinctual and cannot be relegated to a specific duel. Bane, I think, it is rather obvious, is better at using the force offensively.His only chance, IMO, is to team up with Kenobi. [/B]
Anakin is stronger than Kenobi, undeniable? Anakin's rage fully focused is the strongest in the galaxy and more than enough to rip through Bane's defenses
Originally posted by zephiel7
Could you explain why you think this is, Gideon? Anakin pulled off a rather unorthodox trick and took down Dooku in that instance, but can he also repeat the same trick against Bane? They are both Djem So practitioners. If I had to make a choice, backed up by facts, I would give Bane the strength and speed advantage due to his orbalisks pumping him constantly with “strength and adrenaline.” Anakin can’t flaunt the “kinetic energy” generated by his movements because Bane will be generating an equal if not more amount of “kinetic energy.”
Anakin’s only chance is to hit Bane on his only unprotected area; the face. Bane can strike Anakin in virtually any part of his body.
Even if Anakin manages to strike Bane’s face, he’ll have to make it count, since the orbalisks regenerate his tissue instantaneously. Otherwise, DarthSith and Nebaris have summarized most of the details rather well. Bane has demonstrated abilities (in BOTS and PoD) that surpass Anakin’s own considerable skills. If the comics that depicted the midget Yoda lifting a load of artillery can be taken seriously, then Bane’s connection to the force can enhance his physical strength and speed considerably as well.
Anakin’s force abilities are likewise on the level of Obi Wan. They were both caught in a “force lock,” neither one able to overcome the other. In certain one time instances he is able to do some nifty things with the force, but they are instinctual and cannot be relegated to a specific duel. Bane, I think it is rather obvious, is better at using the force offensively.
His only chance, IMO, is to team up with Kenobi. [/B]
Unless it comes down to amr wrestling, Bane's orbalisks mean nothing
Your idea of strength is very narrow then. Strength includes everything from endurance, speed, and yes, sheer brawn. He is not going to just be able to “outmuscle” more, he is going to be faster and posses far, far more endurance.
and Anakin can very easily go for his head with his very powerful robotic hand
Um, what am I supposed to say to this? Bane can strike anywhere on Anakin’s body with his arenaline enhanced reflexes and orbalisk enhanced strength?
Meaning...? Obi-wan's the best defensive duelist in millennia
Maybe he is. I never discredited old Ben in this area, he could probably prolong the duel for a while. If Bane decides to chuck him couple of hundred feet away, I don’t see how his defensive skills can really do the job.
....and what has Bane done to surpass anakin?
Lots, IMHO. If you want me to reiterate something, just ask.
Can he collapse buildings with a scream?
You are exaggerating Anakin’s abilities. Labyrinth never made mention of Anakin collapsing an entire building, only the rooftop of a hallway:
Dooku!" he howled. With such force and wrath that the ceiling of the vast hall began to collapse.
Moreover, that was a random "instinctual" display of Anakin’s power. That doesn’t mean he can perform it whenever he wants, otherwise the fight scenes in the movie and ROTS novelization would have been a lot more interesting.
This is in contrast to Bane, who was tired after a ”long lightsaber duel”, who was also kicked off of multiple flights of stairs, and who was trained for a comparitively less amount of time:
“I agree," Bane replied, hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster's speech.
There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: The massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant, he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.
Unfortunately, he couldn't shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed into a shower of stone, burying Kas'im beneath tons of rock and mortar. A second later the rest of the roof caved in, drowning out the Twi'leks dying scream with a deafening rumble.
A bit better thanjust a ceiling IMO.
Can he tear apart super battle droids with his hands alone?
It shouldn’t really matter, since he isn’t fighting droids in this instance. But for shits and giggles, from everything else he’s shown, I’ll leave it at a probably.
And don't insult Yoda.
What you mean that little green muppet? Nah, I think he’s okay, but I preferred him in his OT incarnation. The AOTC fight scene with him was unfortunately the only instance where a supposedly serious scene had me laughing my ass off. But the ROTS duel was pretty cool, I’ll give Yoda that.
He exceeds Bane by a far amount. He's shown more than enough for that.
Your opinion Lightsnake. Since I’ve chosen BOTS Bane, I’ve seen a bit more on his part than Yoda has shown me. Since I prefer to work with Lucas' own interpretation of his characters over mere secondary sources, what I’ve seen from Yoda contradicts your PoV.
moreover, if Anakin strikes Bane's face, it's cauterize instantly
A) He is not going to reach Bane’s face without getting a clear shot, which I find incredibly unlikely given Bane’s strength/speed advantage.
B) Bane was able to deflect Kas’im’s blows who was referred to as the “perfect weapon,” possibly “the greatest duelist of all time,” and a master who spent decades honing all of the seven forms of light saber fighting. Bane rendered his mastery useless in round one of their fight. Round two presented an advantage to Kas’im but a disadvantage to Bane because Kas’im knew Bane’s style of fighting, whereas Bane was unfamiliar with Kas’im’s.
C) Even if the lightsaber burns the surface tissue, it would regenerate instantly. That’s the magic of the Orbalisks. Bane even inflicted a deep wound on himself, but that regenerated instantaneously.
Bane on the other hand has an advantage here. A variety of areas on Anakin are available to be struck.
Nice to mention sabers can cut through any material in the galaxy. Orbalisks were never once tested in battle
Bane basically swiped at them with his saber as hard as he could. Ultimately, not even a scratch was noticed.
Anakin is stronger than Kenobi, undeniable?
Of course in the grand scheme of things, true, but not by ROTS. He couldn’t force push Obi Wan when they were both caught in a deadlock. Anakin is potentially the best, maybe, but I couldn’t give a shit LS. In practice, he never attained a state which you are keen on speculating.
Originally posted by zephiel7
Your idea of strength is very narrow then. Strength includes everything from endurance, speed, and yes, sheer brawn. He is not going to just be able to “outmuscle” more, he is going to be faster and posses far, far more endurance.
Um, what am I supposed to say to this? Bane can strike anywhere on Anakin’s body with his arenaline enhanced reflexes and orbalisk enhanced strength?
Maybe he is. I never discredited old Ben in this area, he could probably prolong the duel for a while. If Bane decides to chuck him couple of hundred feet away, I don’t see how his defensive skills can really do the job.
Lots, IMHO. If you want me to reiterate something, just ask.
You are exaggerating Anakin’s abilities. Labyrinth never made mention of Anakin collapsing an entire building, only the rooftop of a hallway:Dooku!" he howled. With such force and wrath that the [b]ceiling of the vast hall began to collapse.
Moreover, that was a random "instinctual" display of Anakin’s power. That doesn’t mean he can perform it whenever he wants, otherwise the fight scenes in the movie and ROTS novelization would have been a lot more interesting.
This is in contrast to Bane, who was tired after a ”long lightsaber duel”, who was also kicked off of multiple flights of stairs, and who was trained for a comparitively less amount of time:
“I agree," Bane replied, hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster's speech.There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: The massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant, he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.
Unfortunately, he couldn't shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed into a shower of stone, burying Kas'im beneath tons of rock and mortar. A second later the rest of the roof caved in, drowning out the Twi'leks dying scream with a deafening rumble.
A bit better thanjust a ceiling IMO.
It shouldn’t really matter, since he isn’t fighting droids in this instance. But for shits and giggles, from everything else he’s shown, I’ll leave it at a probably.
What you mean that little green muppet? Nah, I think he’s okay, but I preferred him in his OT incarnation. The AOTC fight scene with him was unfortunately the only instance where a supposedly serious scene had me laughing my ass off. But the ROTS duel was pretty cool, I’ll give Yoda that.
Your opinion Lightsnake. Since I’ve chosen BOTS Bane, I’ve seen a bit more on his part than Yoda has shown me. Since I prefer to work with Lucas' own interpretation of his characters over mere secondary sources, what I’ve seen from Yoda contradicts your PoV.
Oh, clarification, when you said Yoda was definitely on top, did you mean next to Kun and the Ancients?
Yes. I think that was George Lucas' intention.
TV
We have Matt Stover on record declaring Lucas himself approved the bit of Yoda's personal power, and his expressions of such in references...Apparently Lucas believes Yoda, at least up to that point is the most powerful Jedi and one of the two most powerful Force users....and Bane isn't there. You want what Stover says on the matter? Lucas LINE EDITED his book, word for word.
If you've seen more on Bane's part, you're remaining willfully blind to yoda's own achievments and the creator's own backing. Matt Stover puts Yoda on that level and the Dark side sourcebook, Visual Dictionaries, NEC and Heritage of the Sith put Palpatine-by that time- above Bane.
From stover on how detailed Lucas was:
Q: When you met with George Lucas, what did the two of you discuss?
MS: Mostly what I talked about above. I went into the meeting with a list of very detailed questions about "What was Master So & So thinking when he...?" and "Why, exactly, would Anakin want to..." I had a list of questions from Jim Luceno, too, relating to Labyrinth of Evil, and so we managed to get into quite a bit of the direct backstory -- the details of the relationship between the Lords of the Sith and exactly how and why the Separatists had set up the operation we see played out in the opening minutes of the film. And, of course, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the specifics of Anakin's fall -- what, exactly, drives him over the edge, when it happens, and what has led him to it. And, of course, we had to talk a bit about the dark side...
Q: What were Mr. Lucas's line-edits like? Was he a tough editor?
MS: Not tough so much as exceedingly detailed, though I suspect he would have been very tough indeed if I hadn't been quite so scrupulously faithful to the spirit of his story. I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections.
A) He is not going to reach Bane’s face without getting a clear shot, which I find incredibly unlikely given Bane’s strength/speed advantage.
B) Bane was able to deflect Kas’im’s blows who was referred to as the “perfect weapon,” possibly “the greatest duelist of all time,” and a master who spent decades honing all of the seven forms of light saber fighting. Bane rendered his mastery useless in round one of their fight. Round two presented an advantage to Kas’im but a disadvantage to Bane because Kas’im knew Bane’s style of fighting, whereas Bane was unfamiliar with Kas’im’s.
C) Even if the lightsaber burns the surface tissue, it would regenerate instantly. That’s the magic of the Orbalisks. Bane even inflicted a deep wound on himself, but that regenerated instantaneously.
Bane on the other hand has an advantage here. A variety of areas on Anakin are available to be struck.
Bane basically swiped at them with his saber as hard as he could. Ultimately, not even a scratch was noticed.
Of course in the grand scheme of things, true, but not by ROTS. He couldn’t force push Obi Wan when they were both caught in a deadlock. Anakin is potentially the best, maybe, but I couldn’t give a shit LS. In practice, he never attained a state which you are keen on speculating.
So, no, take it up with George.
1. Anakin naturally goes into "the zone". Dookus' taunts were to make Anakin realize what he was doing, and bring him out of it.
2. A shot to the face will kill Bane, don't try and BS around that.
3. It's actually 18 strikes per second, LS, that Obi Wan blocked. Once Greivous boosted it up to twenty, Obi changed strategy and took off a pair of his hands.
That's about it. I really don't see Bane winning this match... at all.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Anakin and Obi-wan do have those....unless you're gonna tell me Bane is stronger than durge-and please don't even try....Gen'Dai are about the strongest race in SW- than there really isn't much..Just that Bane's vulnerability is a huge problem, especially when double teamed....he's not a defensive fighter
If Bane decided to do such, Anakin would get the killing hit in, or hold him off long enough for Ben to return.. If anakin decides to strike out with the force, Bane's in trouble
And Anakin's done a lot to surpass him
No, that was instinctive, but that is hardly discrediting him in the force department. Hell, look at him even after he was crippled. If he focused, especially in grip of fury?
Also, more focused, As Anakin's was not, and anakin had just come in after a battle and was most certainly not out of it there.
considering Anakin's physical strength and his robotic hand at least can deal with such droids...that is something for him
I'm afraid it's official-by Lucas's own intentions- of Yoda's power, actually...as shown below.
Oh, and you don't decide what's canon. The EU goes by official rules unless declared N-Canon. Oh, and you know who created Bane? GeorgeYou want to talk about Lucas's opinion, Zephiel? Ok, then:
In a message dated 7/19/2006 6:06:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Debnath writes:Oh, clarification, when you said Yoda was definitely on top, did you mean next to Kun and the Ancients?
Yes. I think that was George Lucas' intention.
TV
We have Matt Stover on record declaring Lucas himself approved the bit of Yoda's personal power, and his expressions of such in references...Apparently Lucas believes Yoda, at least up to that point is the most powerful Jedi and one of the two most powerful Force users....and Bane isn't there. You want what Stover says on the matter? Lucas LINE EDITED his book, word for word.
If you've seen more on Bane's part, you're remaining willfully blind to yoda's own achievments and the creator's own backing. Matt Stover puts Yoda on that level and the Dark side sourcebook, Visual Dictionaries, NEC and Heritage of the Sith put Palpatine-by that time- above Bane.
From stover on how detailed Lucas was:
[B]
Q: When you met with George Lucas, what did the two of you discuss?MS: Mostly what I talked about above. I went into the meeting with a list of very detailed questions about "What was Master So & So thinking when he...?" and "Why, exactly, would Anakin want to..." I had a list of questions from Jim Luceno, too, relating to Labyrinth of Evil, and so we managed to get into quite a bit of the direct backstory -- the details of the relationship between the Lords of the Sith and exactly how and why the Separatists had set up the operation we see played out in the opening minutes of the film. And, of course, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the specifics of Anakin's fall -- what, exactly, drives him over the edge, when it happens, and what has led him to it. And, of course, we had to talk a bit about the dark side...
Q: What were Mr. Lucas's line-edits like? Was he a tough editor?
MS: Not tough so much as exceedingly detailed, though I suspect he would have been very tough indeed if I hadn't been quite so scrupulously faithful to the spirit of his story. I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections.
bane has a speed advantage now? Obi-wan's the guy who can block 16 strikes a second at best, right?
A double bladed saber =/= a single bladed one. Moreover, Dooku was described as the greatest loss the Jedi ever suffered to the Dark Side, and Grievous was called the perfect weapon and Obi-wan tooled him...can Kas'im block 16 strikes a second now?
With a KNIFE. It doesn't cauterize or incinerate the cells. Regeneration in that case is impossible. Ever heard of the hydra?
And Anakin needs to score one hit on Bane's head with Obi-wan. And Bane'll die from that. the odds are better on Anakin and Obi's part, especially considering their teamwork tactics per ROTS
Same happened with Exar and Mandalorian iron at first. Not seeing it standing to several blows
By ROTs, Anakin is declared stronger. One force push when Anakin was unfocused means very, very little.
So, no, take it up with George.
I hereby award Lightsnake, Bane Killer Award.
Anakin and Obi-wan do have those....
Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
unless you're gonna tell me Bane is stronger than durge
Unknown. I don’t know much about Durge, but the possibility exists that Bane could be stronger, based on the fact that he has the force to channel into his muscles, and he has orbalisks to give him strength. I withhold judgment until I see more of Bane or Durge.
Just that Bane's vulnerability is a huge problem, especially when double teamed....
It won’t matter if he disposes of Obi Wan aka Dooku style. Dooku easily launched Obi Wan a sizable distance.
(ROTS)He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall
We can see clearly that Bane is Dooku’s superior with respect to force attacks. He could easily remove Obi Wan from the fight if he’s smart (which he is). Meanwhile, Anakin’s saber would get deflected by Orbalisks or Bane’s lightsaber if he manages to close in.
Bane was able to instantly kill a powerful master of his age.
(PoD)"And therein lies the problem." Bane lashed out with the dark side, seizing Qordis in an immobilizing, crushing grip. His opponent tried to protect himself, throwing up a field to deflect the incoming assault, but Bane's attack tore through the pitiful defense, wiping it away as if it hadn't even been there.
A final push with his mind tightened the invisible vise. Qordis let out a final scream, but with no air in his lungs, it came out only as a rattling gasp that was lost beneath he snapping and crackling of his bones.
Just by how badly he pwned Qordis, I am seeing a similar turn of events with Obi Wan, since Dooku who’s power in the force has always been shown and described as less than Bane’s was able “rag doll” Kenobi.
Furthermore, when was it stated that Bane was bad at defensive fighting?
“His weapon became an extension of the Force, and he responded to the Twi’lek’s unstoppable attack with an impenetrable defense.”
This quote seems to discredit your point. He was very effectively defending against Kas’im’s onslaught.
If Bane decided to do such, Anakin would get the killing hit in, or hold him off long enough for Ben to return..
Pray tell, how? As I have shown above, Bane is certainly no slouch in defensive combat. He is heavily armoured, and is limiting Anakin’s range of motion. All of Anakins attacks become predictable.
It becomes:
1.“Whoa, gotta watch for the face.”
2. “Oh shit… he’s going for the face”
3. “Let me guess, the face?”
4. “*yawn*”
If anakin decides to strike out with the force, Bane's in trouble
Prove up. I am finding difficulty in wrapping my mind around the fact that Anakin, in the height of his fury, who was unable to beat Obi Wan in a “push” deadlock, can put Bane in “big trouble.”
And Anakin's done a lot to surpass him
What? A scream that was instinctive and happened incidentally only once in his entire career? This is somehow superior to Bane who managed to total a little more than a simple rooftop despite sustaining serious injuries and fatigue?
If he focused, especially in grip of fury?
The point is Lightsnake, he has never reached a point where he can focus his potential to actually perform the technique whenever he wants. The reason I’ve been saying its instinctual is precisely that. He doesn’t have a decent grip on his little surges of power. Otherwise, at the peak of his fury he could have easily ripped apart Obi Wan. We are getting into idle speculation on what Anakin can or can’t do, with little proof.
Also, more focused
More focused? Dude, Bane was just launched down a couple of flights of stairs and was incredibly fatigued.
considering Anakin's physical strength and his robotic hand at least can deal with such droids...that is something for him
No doubt, but this still does not place him above Bane in strength.
Force users are easily capable of such displays of physical power. Ulic Qel Droma was able to cleave through Mandalore’s weapon with a simple dagger. Exar Kun lifted a senator and crushed his skull.
These things aren’t exactly Anakin’s accomplishments alone. Bane was also possessed of extreme physical strength. The orbalisks only added to that. BoTS proves this.
Oh, and you don't decide what's canon. The EU goes by official rules unless declared N-Canon.
Certainly, but I see Lucas’ own interpretation from the movie’s as the be all and end all with respect to his characters. Surely you do not disagree on that?
Oh, and you know who created Bane? George
Oh, clarification, when you said Yoda was definitely on top, did you mean next to Kun and the Ancients?Yes. I think that was George Lucas' intention.
Is Bane Kun? Not quite? Is he an ancient Sith, not quite either.
Apparently Lucas believes Yoda, at least up to that point is the most powerful Jedi and one of the two most powerful Force users
I read the ROTS novelization, nothing in their stated that Palpatine was in combat sense the strongest Sith until that point. I remember poetics in the novel, but nothing that definitively proving him the strongest.
Matt Stover puts Yoda on that level and the Dark side sourcebook, Visual Dictionaries, NEC and Heritage of the Sith put Palpatine-by that time- above Bane.
All of the above sources that you described do not possess the level of authority of Lucas’ movies or his novelizations. His movies portray Yoda’s abilities as being inferior to Bane’s (as per BoTS and PoD.) The novelization hyperbolizes Yoda as "one of the strongest foes the darkness has ever seen"; but that can be interpreted as poetics given the descriptions of Yoda’s powers in ROTS movie. When the highest form of canon (the movies) does not make any mention of Yoda being superior to Bane (through narrative, special effects, or choreography), but depicts him in combat as being inferior, then we are being truest to Lucas’ intent by not assuming as much.
bane has a speed advantage now? Obi-wan's the guy who can block 16 strikes a second at best, right?
We’ve seen passages depicting how fast Bane was moving. “Time seemed to stop” and his movements were “faster than the eyes can see”.
And as for Obi Wan blocking sixteen strikes per second, can you show me your source? More importantly, how does that prevent him from being hurled into a wall, or crushed?
A double bladed saber =/= a single bladed one.
So? Bane used a single bladed lightsaber. I think he is pretty knowledgeable in how one works.
Moreover, Dooku was described as the greatest loss the Jedi ever suffered to the Dark Side
Yes he was a great loss to the Jedi, but if you are using this to establish that he is greater than Kas’im, its not working since Kas was never a Jedi to start with.
Grievous was called the perfect weapon
Did he train for decades, master all forms of lightsaber combat and further honed his mastery?
can Kas'im block 16 strikes a second now?
Who knows? I don’t know whether he is as good a Soresu wielder as Kenobi, but he is certainly better at carrying out an offensive.
It doesn't cauterize or incinerate the cells.
Well, knifing a couple of cells and slicing apart their membranes along with a couple of cell nuclei should also prevent them from regenerating as well, no? It’s probably that the burnt cells shed and the orbalisks regenerate from other cells within his face.
My point is, Anakin would have to launch his lightsaber pretty deep into Bane’s face, which I don’t see happening.
Ever heard of the hydra?
Of course, but last I checked, we’re debating Star Wars, not Greek mythology. 😛
And Anakin needs to score one hit on Bane's head with Obi-wan. And Bane'll die from that. the odds are better on Anakin and Obi's part, especially considering their teamwork tactics per ROTS
Read above. I find it A) highly unlikely Anakin will strike Bane’s head at all, given that is the only region he needs to defend. B) Given such a blatant advantage, Bane could slice at any part of Anakin’s body. C) Obi Wan was sent flying from Dooku’s force push. Bane is stronger than Dooku. There is no reason to believe that Kenobi is going to be standing after Bane crushes his legs using the force, or launches him at high velocities into a pillar etc., D) He was stated as being able to block Kas’im’s “unstoppable attack” with an “impenetrable defense.” With his Orbalisks, he has just the type of defensive leeway required to isolate Anakin.
Same happened with Exar and Mandalorian iron at first. Not seeing it standing to several blows
Last time I checked, the Orbalisks are of totally different makeup from Mandalorian iron. My point is, bring in the proof that the orbalisk’s will break after several hits from the lightsaber.
By ROTs, Anakin is declared stronger. One force push when Anakin was unfocused means very, very little.
What I saw was Anakin, at the height of his fury, unable to overcome a grieving Obi Wan.
So, no, take it up with George.
Good man, I am being faithful to George’s intent. 😉
Originally posted by zephiel7
[B]Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
Unknown. I don’t know much about Durge, but the possibility exists that Bane could be stronger, based on the fact that he has the force to channel into his muscles, and he has orbalisks to give him strength. I withhold judgment until I see more of Bane or Durge.
It won’t matter if he disposes of Obi Wan aka Dooku style. Dooku easily launched Obi Wan a sizable distance.
(ROTS)He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wallWe can see clearly that Bane is Dooku’s superior with respect to force attacks. He could easily remove Obi Wan from the fight if he’s smart (which he is). Meanwhile, Anakin’s saber would get deflected by Orbalisks or Bane’s lightsaber if he manages to close in.
Bane was able to instantly kill a powerful master of his age.(PoD)"And therein lies the problem." Bane lashed out with the dark side, seizing Qordis in an immobilizing, crushing grip. His opponent tried to protect himself, throwing up a field to deflect the incoming assault, but Bane's attack tore through the pitiful defense, wiping it away as if it hadn't even been there.
A final push with his mind tightened the invisible vise. Qordis let out a final scream, but with no air in his lungs, it came out only as a rattling gasp that was lost beneath he snapping and crackling of his bones.
Just by how badly he pwned Qordis, I am seeing a similar turn of events with Obi Wan, since Dooku who’s power in the force has always been shown and described as less than Bane’s was able “rag doll” Kenobi.
Furthermore, when was it stated that Bane was bad at defensive fighting?
“His weapon became an extension of the Force, and he responded to the Twi’lek’s unstoppable attack with an impenetrable defense.”This quote seems to discredit your point. He was very effectively defending against Kas’im’s onslaught.
Pray tell, how? As I have shown above, Bane is certainly no slouch in defensive combat. He is heavily armoured, and is limiting Anakin’s range of motion. All of Anakins attacks become predictable.
It becomes:1.“Whoa, gotta watch for the face.”
2. “Oh shit… he’s going for the face”
3. “Let me guess, the face?”
4. “*yawn*”
Prove up. I am finding difficulty in wrapping my mind around the fact that Anakin, in the height of his fury, who was unable to beat Obi Wan in a “push” deadlock, can put Bane in “big trouble.”
What? A scream that was instinctive and happened incidentally only once in his entire career? This is somehow superior to Bane who managed to total a little more than a simple rooftop despite sustaining serious injuries and fatigue?
The point is Lightsnake, he has never reached a point where he can focus his potential to actually perform the technique whenever he wants. The reason I’ve been saying its instinctual is precisely that. He doesn’t have a decent grip on his little surges of power. Otherwise, at the peak of his fury he could have easily ripped apart Obi Wan. We are getting into idle speculation on what Anakin can or can’t do, with little proof.
More focused? Dude, Bane was just launched down a couple of flights of stairs and was incredibly fatigued.
No doubt, but this still does not place him above Bane in strength.
Force users are easily capable of such displays of physical power. Ulic Qel Droma was able to cleave through Mandalore’s weapon with a simple dagger. Exar Kun lifted a senator and crushed his skull.
These things aren’t exactly Anakin’s accomplishments alone. Bane was also possessed of extreme physical strength. The orbalisks only added to that. BoTS proves this.
Certainly, but I see Lucas’ own interpretation from the movie’s as the be all and end all with respect to his characters. Surely you do not disagree on that?
Your point?
Is Bane Kun? Not quite? Is he an ancient Sith, not quite either.
I read the ROTS novelization, nothing in their stated that Palpatine was in combat sense the strongest Sith until that point. I remember poetics in the novel, but nothing that definitively proving him the strongest.
All of the above sources that you described do not possess the level of authority of Lucas’ movies or his novelizations. His movies portray Yoda’s abilities as being inferior to Bane’s (as per BoTS and PoD.) The novelization portrays Yoda as one of the strongest foes the darkness has ever seen; but that can be interpreted as poetics given the descriptions of Yoda’s powers in ROTS. When the highest form of canon does not make any mention of Yoda being superior to Bane (through narrative, special effects, or choreography), but depicts him in combat as being inferior, then we are being truest to Lucas’ intent by not assuming as much.
Sorry. Just because you think it showed him as inferior doesn't make it so. The EU-including bits line-edited by Mr, Lucas apparnetly- contradict you. The official statements without controversial evidence contradict you.
quite frankly, the facts contradict you. Yoda and Palpatine>Bane. No case there. Just tell yourself Lucas slows them down in the movies for our limited eyes. The highest canon-movies, don't preclude the EU, nor do they contradict the statements of Palp over Bane. You have to accept this, Zeph.
We’ve seen in passages depicting how fast Bane was moving. “Time seemed to stop” and his movements were “faster than the eyes can see”.
And as for Obi Wan blocking sixteen strikes per second, can you show me your source? More importantly, how does that prevent him from being hurled into a wall, or crushed?
Oh, and Lucas left that bit in so, apparently...it goes with his vision.
So, Bane used a single bladed lightsaber. I think he is pretty knowledgeable in how one works.
Yes he was a great loss to the Jedi knight, but if you are using this to establish that he is greater than Kas’im, its not working since Kas was never a Jedi to start with.
Did he train for decades, master all forms of lightsaber combat and further honed his mastery?
Who knows? I don’t know whether he is as good a Soresu wielder as Kenobi, but he is certainly better at carrying out an offensive.
Well, knifing a couple of cells and slicing apart their membranes along with a couple of cell nuclei should also prevent them from regenerating as well, no? It’s probably that the burnt cells shed and the orbalisks regenerate from other cells within his face.My point is, Anakin would have to launch his lightsaber pretty deep into Bane’s face, which I don’t see happening.
Of course, but last I checked, we’re debating Star Wars, not Greek mythology. 😛
Read above. I find it A) highly unlikely Anakin will strike Bane’s head at all, given that is the only region he needs to defend. B) Given such a blatant advantage, Bane could slice at any part of Anakin’s body.
C) Obi Wan was sent flying from Dooku’s force push. Bane is stronger than Dooku. There is no reason to believe that Kenobi is going to be standing after Bane crushes his legs using the force, or launches him at high velocities into a pillar etc., D) He was stated as being able to block Kas’im’s “unstoppable attack” with an “impenetrable defense.” With his Orbalisks, he has just the type of defensive leeway required to isolate Anakin.
Last time I checked, the Orbalisks are of totally different makeup from Mandalorian iron. My point is, bring in the proof that the orbalisk’s will break after several hits from the lightsaber.
What I saw was Anakin, at the height of his fury, unable to overcome a grieving Obi Wan.
Good man, I am being faithful to George’s intent. 😉 [/B]
Stover made his points very clear. And this, my dear man, is the highest level of canon besides the movies.
PoD has to conform to the others since it makes no claims of Bane being stronger directly. As there is no contradiction, but of maybe 'absence of proof', the matter is rather open and shut
Originally posted by zephiel7
Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
We can see clearly that Bane is Dooku’s superior with respect to force attacks. He could easily remove Obi Wan from the fight if he’s smart (which he is). Meanwhile, Anakin’s saber would get deflected by Orbalisks or Bane’s lightsaber if he manages to close in.
Bane was able to instantly kill a powerful master of his age.(PoD)"And therein lies the problem." Bane lashed out with the dark side, seizing Qordis in an immobilizing, crushing grip. His opponent tried to protect himself, throwing up a field to deflect the incoming assault, but Bane's attack tore through the pitiful defense, wiping it away as if it hadn't even been there.
Just by how badly he pwned Qordis, I am seeing a similar turn of events with Obi Wan, since Dooku who’s power in the force has always been shown and described as less than Bane’s was able “rag doll” Kenobi.
[i]“His weapon became an extension of the Force, and he responded to the Twi’lek’s unstoppable attack with an impenetrable defense.”This quote seems to discredit your point. He was very effectively defending against Kas’im’s onslaught.
Pray tell, how? As I have shown above, Bane is certainly no slouch in defensive combat. He is heavily armoured, and is limiting Anakin’s range of motion. All of Anakins attacks become predictable.
Prove up. I am finding difficulty in wrapping my mind around the fact that Anakin, in the height of his fury, who was unable to beat Obi Wan in a “push” deadlock, can put Bane in “big trouble.”
What? A scream that was instinctive and happened incidentally only once in his entire career? This is somehow superior to Bane who managed to total a little more than a simple rooftop despite sustaining serious injuries and fatigue?
The point is Lightsnake, he has never reached a point where he can focus his potential to actually perform the technique whenever he wants. The reason I’ve been saying its instinctual is precisely that. He doesn’t have a decent grip on his little surges of power. Otherwise, at the peak of his fury he could have easily ripped apart Obi Wan. We are getting into idle speculation on what Anakin can or can’t do, with little proof.
Force users are easily capable of such displays of physical power. Ulic Qel Droma was able to cleave through Mandalore’s weapon with a simple dagger. Exar Kun lifted a senator and crushed his skull.
I read the ROTS novelization, nothing in their stated that Palpatine was in combat sense the strongest Sith until that point. I remember poetics in the novel, but nothing that definitively proving him the strongest.
All of the above sources that you described do not possess the level of authority of Lucas’ movies or his novelizations. His movies portray Yoda’s abilities as being inferior to Bane’s (as per BoTS and PoD.) The novelization hyperbolizes Yoda as "one of the strongest foes the darkness has ever seen"; but that can be interpreted as poetics given the descriptions of Yoda’s powers in ROTS movie. When the highest form of canon (the movies) does not make any mention of Yoda being superior to Bane (through narrative, special effects, or choreography), but depicts him in combat as being inferior, then we are being truest to Lucas’ intent by not assuming as much.
Yes he was a great loss to the Jedi, but if you are using this to establish that he is greater than Kas’im, its not working since Kas was never a Jedi to start with.
Read above. I find it A) highly unlikely Anakin will strike Bane’s head at all, given that is the only region he needs to defend. B) Given such a blatant advantage, Bane could slice at any part of Anakin’s body. C) Obi Wan was sent flying from Dooku’s force push. Bane is stronger than Dooku. There is no reason to believe that Kenobi is going to be standing after Bane crushes his legs using the force, or launches him at high velocities into a pillar etc., D) He was stated as being able to block Kas’im’s “unstoppable attack” with an “impenetrable defense.” With his Orbalisks, he has just the type of defensive leeway required to isolate Anakin.
What I saw was Anakin, at the height of his fury, unable to overcome a grieving Obi Wan.