I have a question , in the video where a building specialist says . " based on what i saw , after being hit by the airplanes. The towers collapsed due to some explosives within the building". When he says this, does he mean explosives as in planted demolitions, bombs , C4 things of that nature? Or when the planes hit at that magnitude, there were gas tanks, electrical equipment, generators , that kept the WTC running. That if ruptured or hit, would cause some fires and explosions . Creating a domino effect, leaving us with the end result ? If they wernt demolitions, setup by the government . The idea of the planes causing a chain reaction of explosions from damaging the equipment within the towers, seems reasonable. Unless one of you can explain.
Yeah, I agree it does seem reasonable, but i dont think there were any such devices in that part of the building( the janitor may explain this in the doc), also it was stated by people inside the building that explosions came from the elevator shafts and a fire ball barreled down the elevator shafts to the ground floor and this caused the glass and marble to shatter in the ground floor foyer, but apparently the elevator shafts were airtight which would make this scenario impossible, so how did the glass and marble get smashed?
Originally posted by papabeard
They are fighting against western imperialsm and the american treatment of the middle east.
horse manure...al qaeda's aims have only ever been to drive anyone who doesn't subscribe to their view of islam out of saudi arabia which they refer to, roughly translated as, the land of 2 holy places...
they merely see america as the head of the devil...any secular islamic government and any middle eastern government which doesn't follow their view point as also targets...hence they bomb targets in muslim countries such as turkey
and thus it has nothing to do with "freedom fighting" because they're not trying to free anyone or anything...quite the opposite in fact...to impose their ideology on others...
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Originally posted by jaden101
horse manure...al qaeda's aims have only ever been to drive anyone who doesn't subscribe to their view of islam out of saudi arabia which they refer to, roughly translated as, the land of 2 holy places...they merely see america as the head of the devil...any secular islamic government and any middle eastern government which doesn't follow their view point as also targets...hence they bomb targets in muslim countries such as turkey
and thus it has nothing to do with "freedom fighting" because they're not trying to free anyone or anything...quite the opposite in fact...to impose their ideology on others...
I agree, i should clarify what I meant in using the quote " one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" (all be it inaccurate)i used this old cliche to illustrate the point, that Al Qaeda and its followers believe they are following a righteous path, that what they are doing is the right thing according to their beliefs, and that governments and organisations who do not believe the same are "the enemy", which america are also guilty of and the US government certainly have perpetrated acts of terrorism. So the divide between who is a terrorist and who is not is subjective and very blurred these days.
You are correct that they seek to destroy anyone that does not follow their very strict theological beliefs, but i believe it is also correct that they are infuriated by Americas treatment of what they believe to be their holy lands, occupation and bombings for example, why do they perceive america as the " head of the Devil"?
But you are right, the statement " one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" is perhaps inaccurate and simplistic, I know what I meant to say and shouldnt have been so lazy as to summarise a complex issue like this by using a hoary old cliche. But they do seek to free their world of anyone who doesnt subscribe to their beliefs and who occupies and land they believe to be spiritually "theirs". Can you imagine what would happen if Al Qaeda decided they were going to send troops into the US or somewhere in Europe to occupy the land or station their troops there or if they decided to bomb somewhere in the US? Which again the US and UK are guilty of.
Why is one vision of the world correct and acceptable and another incorrect and unacceptable?
I think it is incorrect to dismiss the idea that Al Qaeda are fighting against west and their treatment of the middle east as "horse manure" because this is what you state yourself, that they are trying to drive "non believers" out of their country, which is what I was also referring to.
Saudi arabia and america have a long history of economic dependendance, and both countries have huge amounts of money and business interests invested in each nation, mainly because of the massive oil reserves. I believe it is also true that they are angered by the US occupation and attacks on other middle eastern countries, such as Iraq, and I believe Bin Laden also met Saddam Hussein with a view to fighting together against america.
I dont belive the terrorist war is solely based on religious reasons.
your still quite narrow minded papabeard. both are controlled by the same force. thats what i have to try and get across to people. the war on terror is illusion. there is no real threat, its all lies. if you believe the lies which people have, then more misery is inflicted in the world. people need to turn of the tv and stop reading the papers and do some more reading which doesnt come from a bias or controlled source
would you like me to send you a good dvd on teh way the world is run?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu6pw5vtswE
good rap song.
I'll tell you what the 9/11 conspiracy theory is. It's what EVERY conspiracy theory is. A bunch of malcontents so pissed off at the government that they will believe anything fed to them by the head conspiracy wackos and then defend those half-assed claims to the end of the earth, just to "fight the power," even when no one else is paying attention to them. Even if there's no proof, you'll make up proof. You're so convinced that the government is evil (which it occasionally can be), that you will see things that are not there.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. — Joseph Goebbels
no conspiracy theory. all conspiracy fact. its an agenda. a new world order. its already been mentioned by george bush and other people in power.
and no they didnt just allow it to happen. the people who control the united states orchestrated it. a guy in a cave did not do it, believe me. the 9/11 attacks helped push the agenda forward.
the patheric mainstream media do nothing to research. they just get the 'info' off the politicans and then repeat it to us. jounalists are nothing more than repeaters who do nothing but parrot the official story from the government. if we had real mainstream journalism, these evil bastards could not get away with the atrocitys they commit
Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.
oh and its funny, at each of the main 3 terrorist attacks in recent years (oklahoma, 9/11, london bombings) there as been a drill at the exact same time as the attacks. why? you do the math.
and yes the people who are running the world are evil. they dont give a **** about us at all. wake the hell up and look into it yourself. when you do this and when others do this..the manipulation WILL END. YOU WILL NO LONGER BELIEVE THE LIES THEREFORE THERE CAN BE NO MORE WARS WHICH INVOLVE THOUSANDS OF DEATHS, THERE CAN BE NO MORE FREEDOMS TAKEN AWAY.
electing(they are already selected long before) presidents wont end earths woes. god help us all.
FUKIN WAKE UP.
having a different version of reality does not mean people should be branded conspiracy nuts. we all have the right to believe in what we feel is right without hassle. we're not always right but its what we believe is right.
people like papabeard are going in the right direction..he senses something is not right and is willing to investigate further. and then there is people like strangelove that are completely blind and useless. who will ridicule as if he knows everything.
check out this video
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822&q=future+of+mankind
Originally posted by papabeard
we'll kram3r, it seems that this maddox fellows reasoning for debunking the conspiracy theory is that Dylan ( the film maker) and his family and friends are still alive and that the government have not shut the site down, which seems a little naive to me.Im not making any claims as to what is true and what is false, but think about it........ perhaps if all of a sudden a filmmaker who made a doc about governmental conspiracies and his family and friends all die in mysterious circumstances, that may invite some further suspicion, also if the goverment tried to prevent this film from being seen, that implicates them and gives validity to the viewpoint contained within.
Maybe this conspiracy theory is a little too scary for maddox and yourself.
Maybe you should have bothered the check the "point-by-point" debate where there is science thrown into the mix. Also the cartoons at the beginning and end make a great case. I don't want to get too into this conspiracy crap because I find it utterly pointless, especially when people have their head so set on a conspiracy. Besides, Strangelove is doing a good job.
Originally posted by papabeard
I think it is incorrect to dismiss the idea that Al Qaeda are fighting against west and their treatment of the middle east as "horse manure" because this is what you state yourself, that they are trying to drive "non believers" out of their country, which is what I was also referring to.Saudi arabia and america have a long history of economic dependendance, and both countries have huge amounts of money and business interests invested in each nation, mainly because of the massive oil reserves. I believe it is also true that they are angered by the US occupation and attacks on other middle eastern countries, such as Iraq, and I believe Bin Laden also met Saddam Hussein with a view to fighting together against america.
I dont belive the terrorist war is solely based on religious reasons.
the "horse manure" comment was merely levied at the simplisitc nature of your post which you admit was not entirely accurate
the issues behind al qaeda and their ambitions is more complex than either of us know...but one thing is clear...it has no function other than to serve itself as an organization...they dont want to liberate anyone from oppressors....quite the opposits in fact...they may say they want to liberate the middle east from the west...but the fact remains that while the US influence is undeniable in the middle east, they dont run the the nations that make it up....al qaeda ambition is to impose their rule on these countries and more besides
it gets more extreme than that
there was a faction of al qaeda in Africa that were so devout to their interpretation of the islamic faith that they genuinely believed that only the 6 people who made up their faction were worthy of God and that everyone else should die
how do you make peace with people like that?
I'm not one of them people that think's there were explosive devices in the Tower's to bring them down "the airliner's were more then capable of doing the job".Even if they wouldn't of colapsed they were both beyond repair anyway.It would simply take to many people to pull off the whole explosion thing.
But i do believe the whole event was planned out by the CIA,basically they planted a seed called "Bin Laden" that brainwashed these terrorist's to commit these act's.
Certain official's and elitist's new the attack's were going to happen but did nothing to stop it"exactly like Pearl Harbor".Our President knew about Pearl Harbor 2 week's before it happened.
Loose change is loosely based on very little fact's.
Here is a video on how N.O.R.A.D was having drill's on the day of 9/11/01 that were exactly like the terrorist's attack's.THIS IS FACT!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o11u4EW9Hn8
And this a much better documentary about 911,Loose Change is just a bunch of college kid's that made a movie on what they assumed to be the truth.Alex Jones actually dig's up the fact's and seems to make alot more sense.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=911+the+road+to+tyranny&hl=en
Look, here's the simple fact about 9/11 folks.
The Government could have prevented it.
That's all there is to it.
Whether or not they want to use the old "We didn't know it was coming" excuse, the fact is, that while those planes were in the air, sending out distress signals, flying way off their patterns, ect. ect., the Government could have and should have sent their airforce to check things out.
Too many hours went by and the Government didn't do jack shit to prevent the disaster.
I don't want to hear the excuses. If the Presidents plane was acting funny in any way, and there were signs of distress, the airforce would have been up in the air within minutes.
But when it came to 9-11, nothing was done. NOTHING!!!!
That's really all that needs to be said.....and yes, we should blame our own Government. And we shouldn't feel bad for doing so.
What about the terrorists you say? They couldn't have done it without the miserable response that our Country's leaders mustered up.
Originally posted by Deano
but still..whats the difference between allowing people to die in the towers, or blowing the towers up yourself.your a murderer either way.
Right. And in fact, of all the peculiarities, unanswered questions, and things that don't add up about the 9-11 terrorist attacks, the one aspect that keeps nagging at me revolves around our military's incredible lack of response to the hijackings of four airliners. Anyone who investigates this matter will soon find that the United States Air Force and the FAA both established procedures that have been in place for at least 25 years regarding planes that veer abnormally off course.
Specifically, the Federal law MANDATES that the Air Force must dispatch a plane to investigate why a certain craft has strayed from its predestined route. These interceptors are only allowed to shoot an airliner from the sky under orders from the President, but that doesn't negate that they are still required to investigate the situation in a timely manner.
And yet, on 9-11, NO ONE FOLLOWED ORDERS! Why? Who gave these orders? Plus, Washington, D.C. has the most restricted air space in the country, yet from 9:03 A.M., when the second tower was hit, to 9:47 A.M., when the Pentagon came under attack....when the Air Force KNEW that a jet was headed toward the Capitol, no planes were dispatched to intercept it. Who gave the orders for these planes to 'stand down', and, God forbid, were some even called back after they had taken off?