Originally posted by OneDumbG0What evidence to the contrary? Perhaps the sum of Colossus durability feats throughout his history. Hawkeye hurt members of the Wrecking Crew, therefore Captain America can hurt Colossus? With regard to Colossus being pierced I'm assuming you're referring to Riptide - which would mean you're unaware that in a later comic Riptide tried the same thing and the shurikens just bounced off. Wisdom's hot knives the temperature of the surface of the sun? Let me know when Captain America gains an acid edged shield the temperature of the sun and can throw it at the speed of a tornado.
What evidence to the contrary are you referring to? 616-Colossus' form has been pierced and damaged before. Indeed, he's been shredded before. .45 caliber bullet resistant eyes? Wrecking Crew has that same durability over their body. It's not all that special. Read up 'Secret Wars' again where they make specific reference to it and Hawkeye owns them. Yes, it might be hard, but please read a comic. Cap's shield blows have torn right through Iron Man's armor among other things. He's shredded helicopters with shield tosses. There's so much evidence that Cap's shield does more damage than a .45 caliber bullet that your reliance on such a fact was purely asinine. Do you want me to show you scans of Cap riding shockwaves with his shield and being unharmed? Indeed, shockwaves much more potent than a measly thunderclap? In the end, I ended up ignoring your participation in the whole thing, as I was much more interested in Metalmanx's comments. But if you want me to make you look like an utter fool with scans, then I will. But we both know I could, so if you let this post ride as is, I won't embarass you.And now here we are with this thread. Are you stating that Cage's eyes are invulnerable or Thing's eyes are invulnerable? Apparently so. So I guess you must be more of an idiot. Want to step back frrom your position a bit? Yeah, you should. I'm looking at obvious weakpoints. Any strategist would. If you think Cap is going to punch him in the chest, then you're a fool. You want me to flood you with scans of him analyzing an opponent whose durability and power outclasses him and him going for the weak points? It's called thinking. You should try it sometime. Then again you could continue to be ignorant and make par for the course.
I didn't bring up the bullet, that was Creshosk, who also posted the scan of Colossus and Juggernaut fighting. The thread started with you saying that Captain America would trip up Colossus and dent his neck repeatedly in order to change him back to human form. 🤨 Then you started with "He'll find a way" based on environment when no environment was specified. Then partially accepted that Captain America couldn't hurt Colossus, or at least that nobody besides you thought so, but that Colossus couldn't hurt Captain America - at which point it was pointed out that Colossus could simply outlast Captain America. Then posted a series of scans (which I'm assuming you simply intend to post again, ooh scary) and went back to saying he could hurt him, he'd give him a stigmatism [sic] and cut his ear. All the while Colossus just stands there like his namesake I suppose. I started ignoring your contribution to the thread when you appeared to take things like Captain America throwing his shield to catch up with a ballistic missile seriously.
With regard to this thread, I've only largely been referring to whether Captain America can do real damage to Luke Cage with H2H through his diamond-hard skin in response to Alfheim constantly harping on about Captain America vs the mindcontrolled Namor. Take that as a concession if you will, but take your strawman statements back with it. My post wasn't actually meant as a slight on you, although Alfheim pissed me off so it probably came out that way, so have fun overreacting and embarrass me all you want, I have marking to do. You win the interwebz!
Originally posted by AlfheimIf you post about me, I'll reply in kind. Everyone on here, everyone, knows you have a "huge mancrush," as V so eloquently puts it, on Captain America. And several people besides me have encountered your ineptitude in understanding what they're trying to convey. You were notably silent in the Captain America vs Thor H2H thread. Have his pressure points moved since then?
Bullocks you have already started your bullshit already with you're depndent clause bullshit. You even wanted to debate wether Mantis has the ability to KO Thor despite the fact that she has done it in comics and it says in her bio. You have even said in one of your posts that Beast is much more agile than Cap , which clearly shows you dont know what the **** you are talking about its just pure Cap hate.Your an argumentative prick and you cant help being an ***hole. Dont like my posts dont relpy to them. Feel free to make some bullshit excuse like you dont understand what im saying or I dont understand what your saying. It would help if you spent less time on getting on my case and had a look at yourself.
Your the one who has said that its not about being peak human or amped but its wether its somebody powerset. It is mantis's powerset to KO Thor but now you are contradicting yourself because you want to be an ***hole.
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis
[B]Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.
Right so its not Mantis's powerset to KO Thor? Why the **** are you arguing.....er you're a arumentative ***** [/B]
Originally posted by xmarksthespotAll entirely off-topic since Cap is not trying to stab him or gut him in the chest. He'd go for his eyes which are of considerably less durability then his damn chest. Unless you are actually stupid enough that you think his eyeball is as durable as his chest.
What evidence to the contrary? Perhaps the sum of Colossus durability feats throughout his history. Hawkeye hurt members of the Wrecking Crew, therefore Captain America can hurt Colossus? With regard to Colossus being pierced I'm assuming you're referring to Riptide - which would mean you're unaware that in a later comic Riptide tried the same thing and the shurikens just bounced off. Wisdom's hot knives the temperature of the surface of the sun? Let me know when Captain America gains an acid edged shield the temperature of the sun and can throw it at the speed of a tornado.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotYou idiots argued among other things: 1) Cap has never damaged anything like steel before; 2) Cap could never throw it fast enough to attain the kind of speed necessary to damage Colossus' eyes; and 3) Colossus' eyes are so small, he'd never hit them or Cap would miss.
I didn't bring up the bullet, that was Creshosk, who also posted the scan of Colossus and Juggernaut fighting. The thread started with you saying that Captain America would trip up Colossus and dent his neck repeatedly in order to change him back to human form. 🤨 Then you started with "He'll find a way" based on environment when no environment was specified. Then partially accepted that Captain America couldn't hurt Colossus, or at least that nobody besides you thought so, but that Colossus couldn't hurt Captain America - at which point it was pointed out that Colossus could simply outlast Captain America. Then posted a series of scans (which I'm assuming you simply intend to post again, ooh scary) and went back to saying he could hurt him, he'd give him a stigmatism [sic] and cut his ear. All the while Colossus just stands there like his namesake I suppose. I started ignoring your contribution to the thread when you appeared to take things like Captain America throwing his shield to catch up with a ballistic missile seriously.
1) I showed you all scans of him shredding steel; 2) I also showed you scans of how fast he could throw the shield, probably 100+ mph; and 3) I then also showed you scans of how precise he was with the shield. So precise that he could hit a lighter switch with a rebound shot, without looking and without moving the lighter.
That shut most of you up. Even after resolving all your nitpicking you still refused to see how Cap could damage Colossus, when I just gave you a completely plausible scenario within Cap's strength and skill.
Then some of you said Colossus could flex his eye out to correct the damage and instantly heal when he switched back to human. Of course, I pointed out that Colossus cannot heal that damage by switching back. Indeed, any damage inflicted on him in metal form stays when he reverts to human form.
The Hawkeye scene I just referred to in 'Secret Wars' is a scene where one of the Wrecking Crew is threatening Hawkeye and scoffs at his attempt to hurt him with normal arrows. He specifically states he's shrugged off .45 calibur bullets and Hawkeye said his normal arrows do a lot more damage then .45 calibur bullets. He doesn't believe Hawkeye and advances until Hawkeye is forced to shoot him and it does indeed pierce his body. That scene was merely to help illustrate that being able to resist .45 caliber bullets isn't well beyond Cap's capacity to damage. So what point did you want to make by resurfacing my argument that completely resolved any of your attacks?
Originally posted by xmarksthespotI win this debate since you obviously recognize that Cap could blind Cage and therefore would indeed hurt him. The fact that you need or want to limit Cap to H2H has nothing to do with this fight since the fight's stipulations don't limit Cap. And the fact that everyone here agrees that Cap could hurt Cage with such simple tactics make all your H2H arguments moot and reduces them to "strawman statements." In other words, nobody gives a crap since it doesn't change the fact that Cap can hurt Cage. "Finding a way," does not need involve PIS jobber auras. In this case, all I needed to do was point out a very obvious vulnerability that isn't protected by his skin. Well... apparently not so obvious to you. Next time you lose, do it a little bit more gracefully.
With regard to this thread, I've only largely been referring to whether Captain America can do real damage to Luke Cage with H2H through his diamond-hard skin in response to Alfheim constantly harping on about Captain America vs the mindcontrolled Namor. Take that as a concession if you will, but take your strawman statements back with it. My post wasn't actually meant as a slight on you, although Alfheim pissed me off so it probably came out that way, so have fun overreacting and embarrass me all you want, I have marking to do. You win the interwebz!
I have some more time now that I finished my marking. 🙂
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Those were the low showings, with chemical and heat variables, of Colossus durability upon which you based that Captain America can blind him with physical force. Whether or not Colossus' eyes are less durable than his body isn't proven nor disproven, but logically they would be since an ordinary human's eyes are less durable than muscle. That being said Colossus has been shown to basically turn into solid organic "steel" when Magneto healed him, and his eyes have withstood similar things to his body during explosions, being superheated by Pyro, and Pete Wisdom's knives the temperature of the sun's surface. And there's no conclusiveness as to whether damaging Colossus' eyes metal corneas would even affect his vision.
All entirely off-topic since Cap is not trying to stab him or gut him in the chest. He'd go for his eyes which are of considerably less durability then his damn chest. Unless you are actually stupid enough that you think his eyeball is as durable as his chest.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No one ever said (1).
You idiots argued among other things: 1) Cap has never damaged anything like steel before; 2) Cap could never throw it fast enough to attain the kind of speed necessary to damage Colossus' eyes; and 3) Colossus' eyes are so small, he'd never hit them or Cap would miss.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Colossus isn't actually steel. 😐 And he isn't actually his namesake. He has the ability to move.
1) I showed you all scans of him shredding steel; 2) I also showed you scans of how fast he could throw the shield, probably 100+ mph; and 3) I then also showed you scans of how precise he was with the shield. So precise that he could hit a lighter switch with a rebound shot, without looking and without moving the lighter.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Maybe people just got bored of you. The only person I recall giving Captain America the win under your (the word is) astigmatism scenario, was you. Your premise has that he manages to damage the cornea of both eyes, therefore having had his vision impaired Colossus gives up. That scenario might garner a small few out of ten. The majority or a stalemate based on that? There's a difference between plausible and probable.
That shut most of you up. Even after resolving all your nitpicking you still refused to see how Cap could damage Colossus, when I just gave you a completely plausible scenario within Cap's strength and skill.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0N/A. If you want to continue about Colossus vs Captain America feel free in that thread. I'll even bump it for shits ang giggles.
Then some of you said Colossus could flex his eye out to correct the damage and instantly heal when he switched back to human. Of course, I pointed out that Colossus cannot heal that damage by switching back. Indeed, any damage inflicted on him in metal form stays when he reverts to human form.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Let me guess you think Hawkeye beats Colossus too?
The Hawkeye scene I just referred to in 'Secret Wars' is a scene where one of the Wrecking Crew is threatening Hawkeye and scoffs at his attempt to hurt him with normal arrows. He specifically states he's shrugged off .45 calibur bullets and Hawkeye said his normal arrows do a lot more damage then .45 calibur bullets. He doesn't believe Hawkeye and advances until Hawkeye is forced to shoot him and it does indeed pierce his body. That scene was merely to help illustrate that being able to resist .45 caliber bullets isn't well beyond Cap's capacity to damage. So what point did you want to make by resurfacing my argument that completely resolved any of your attacks?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Congratulations, your medal is in the mail. I don't want or need to limit this fight. I was clarifying the context of my earlier post to Alfheim, who was implying with his examples through H2H means alone Captain America can harm the Colossus, Thing, and so on, pay attention. Regardless of whether I win or lose, I do it with more class than you. doped
I win this debate since you obviously recognize that Cap could blind Cage and therefore would indeed hurt him. The fact that you need or want to limit Cap to H2H has nothing to do with this fight since the fight's stipulations don't limit Cap. And the fact that everyone here agrees that Cap could hurt Cage with such simple tactics make all your H2H arguments moot and reduces them to "strawman statements." In other words, nobody gives a crap since it doesn't change the fact that Cap can hurt Cage. "Finding a way," does not need involve PIS jobber auras. In this case, all I needed to do was point out a very obvious vulnerability that isn't protected by his skin. Well... apparently not so obvious to you. Next time you lose, do it a little bit more gracefully.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If you post about me, I'll reply in kind. Everyone on here, everyone, knows you have a "huge mancrush," as V so eloquently puts it, on Captain America. And several people besides me have encountered your ineptitude in understanding what they're trying to convey.
Just because more people think something doesnt mean its correct. Sorry but alot of people on this forum are just ***holes. Thats why some of the best debators have left this forum and gone to C-masters forum....they cant stand the crap
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You were notably silent in the Captain America vs Thor H2H thread. Have his pressure points moved since then?
Well this just goes to show you dont know what the hell you're talking about....you dont even understand your own points anymore. You said that a characters powerset enables that person to do what they do.
It doesnt matter what damage that Thor has taken, its Mantis's powerset to KO Thor....read it an weep! The only reason why you're complaining about it is because you're argumentative. Cap is not as good as Mantis but she proves the principle that even if you have peak human strength you can hurt people with vast durability.
I didnt post in the Cap vs Thor thread because its you starting your crap again.
Originally posted by AlfheimHa. And I suppose you count yourself amongst the best of them.
Just because more people think something doesnt mean its correct. Sorry but alot of people on this forum are just ***holes. Thats why some of the best debators have left this forum and gone to C-masters forum....they cant stand the crapWell this just goes to show you dont know what the hell you're talking about....you dont even understand your own points anymore. You said that a characters powerset enables that person to do what they do.
It doesnt matter what damage that Thor has taken, its Mantis's powerset to KO Thor....read it an weep! The only reason why you're complaining about it is because you're argumentative. Cap is not as good as Mantis but she proves the principle that even if you have peak human strength you can hurt people with vast durability.
I didnt post in the Cap vs Thor thread because its you starting your crap again.
Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."
Power. Feat. Power. Feat.
Taking into account Thor's durability feats, a normal strength female humanoid, no matter how skilled wouldn't generate the pressure needed to even make the slightest impression on him. Let alone knock him out.
Captain America knows pressure points. Thor apparently has them, and normal strength humanoids can knock him out with them. So in a H2H fight with Thor, all else but strength and durability granted him, Cap wins 10/10 right? Have Thor's pressure points moved around since the Mantis incident? Have Vision's non-existent pressure points? Cap vs Vision H2H obviously Cap wins 10/10. 😐
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Ha. And I suppose you count yourself amongst the best of them.Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."Power. Feat. Power. Feat.
You are trying to make things more complicated than they already are. Powersets enable people to do powerfeats and her powerset enables her to KO Thor. Therefore following your own principles you should not have a problem with Mantis KOing Thor. Contradicting yourself.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Taking into account Thor's durability feats, a normal strength female humanoid, no matter how skilled wouldn't generate the pressure needed to even make the slightest impression on him. Let alone knock him out.
So what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor and her bio states that its in her ability to do so your rejecting it?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Captain America knows pressure points. Thor apparently has them, and normal strength humanoids can knock him out with them. So in a H2H fight with Thor, all else but strength and durability granted him, Cap wins 10/10 right?
I dont think Cap is skilled enough to KO Thor but I think he can do it to Namor. Cap isnt skilled enough to KO thor just piss him off like he would The Hulk
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Have Thor's pressure points moved around since the Mantis incident?
NO, and?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Have Vision's non-existent pressure points?
and? Was Vision in dense form when he got KOed. If he was and he has no nerve endings then I guess it shoudlnt happen
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cap vs Vision H2H obviously Cap wins 10/10. 😐
*sigh*
Ha. And I suppose you count yourself amongst the best of them.Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."Power. Feat. Power. Feat.
Actually to my knowledge she only did that to Thor via sneak attack. But in actual combat against the likes of Wonderman, Drax, Thanos. She has not been able to repeat that feat.
Plus Cap also knows a good understanding about pressure-points and has hurt others with greater durability then Luke thanks to his shield.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually to my knowledge she only did that to Thor via sneak attack.
Yeah but just because she was sneaking up on him doesnt make Thor less durable. Sure if he knew she was coming he could have defended himself but the fact that she Koed him shows her capability.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
But in actual combat against the likes of Wonderman, Drax, Thanos. She has not been able to repeat that feat.
Well at any rate the feat with Thor still stands and her bio states she is capable of doing it.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Plus Cap also knows a good understanding about pressure-points and has hurt others with greater durability then Luke thanks to his shield.
Thats PIS as far as their concerned.
*bump* for you Xmarks
Originally posted by Alfheim
You are trying to make things more complicated than they already are. Powersets enable people to do powerfeats and her powerset enables her to KO Thor. Therefore following your own principles you should not have a problem with Mantis KOing Thor. Contradicting yourself.So what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor and her bio states that its in her ability to do so your rejecting it?
I dont think Cap is skilled enough to KO Thor but I think he can do it to Namor. Cap isnt skilled enough to KO thor just piss him off like he would The Hulk
NO, and?
and? Was Vision in dense form when he got KOed. If he was and he has no nerve endings then I guess it shoudlnt happen
*sigh*
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Feat. Powerset. Feat. Powerset = martial arts mastery Feat = "has enabled her to KO Thor."
Which is what i said already and thats what you said already.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
These things aren't analagous. And it isn't about what people can do in the real world. It's about what characters can do given their powersets in the comic book world.
Right?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She isn't Drax to his Thanos, she wasn't designed with the expressed intention to KO Thor. "The ability to KO Thor" is not her "power." 😐
***ing bull****. Does her bio says she has the the ability to KO Thor? You said that peoples powersets give them the ability to do what they do, thats what im saying as well, thats what Marvel are saying as well.
Peoples powersets give them their abilities to do what they do and Mantis's powerset enables her to KO Thor.
Originally posted by AlfheimThe sentence says "has enabled her to" which is true. She has. It is framed as a feat not "her power". Whether or not one accepts that feat as plausible within comics considering Mantis' strength or lack thereof and Thor's durability, it is a feat and not a "powerset."
Which is what i said already and thats what you said already.Right?
***ing bull****. Does her bio says she has the the ability to KO Thor? You said that peoples powersets give them the ability to do what they do, thats what im saying as well, thats what Marvel are saying as well.
Peoples powersets give them their abilities to do what they do and Mantis's powerset enables her to KO Thor.
And regardless of whether you think that's her powerset, funnily enough, not everyone being you, not everyone defines a character's powerset in the exact same way as you by what you scrape off of Marvel.com... So chill. 🙂
Originally posted by Daredevil1At least you seem to be grasping the distinction I have between a powerset and a feat. That doesn't imply I agree with the feat, which makes the analogy rather ineffective. The shield, potentially. Hands only? Not imo.
Exactly and Caps mastery of the shield plus martial arts has enabled him to hurt guys like Luke.
At least you seem to be grasping the distinction I have between a powerset and a feat. That doesn't imply I agree with the feat, which makes the analogy rather ineffective. The shield, potentially. Hands only? Not imo.
Hands I could see as well.
Punching Thunder ball down briefly and having him spatter out blood.
KO'ing a fatigued Rhino with a kick targeting his nose.
KO'ing Powerman the original one with a punch.
Breaking Hulk's wrist grip with a kick to Hulk's face.
To having Ironman rub his metal jaw after a punch to the face.
Cap's martial art strikes seem to affect a bit very durable beings, especially with him targeting pressure-points/sensitive areas.
IMO he could, not with a one hit, but by targeting that same area repeatedly.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The sentence says "has enabled her to" which is true. She has. It is framed as a feat not "her power". Whether or not one accepts that feat as plausible within comics considering Mantis' strength or lack thereof and Thor's durability, it is a feat and not a "powerset."
Yes I know didnt I say that already??????
Originally posted by AlfheimHer MA abiltiesSo what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset
Originally posted by AlfheimSelf explanatory
enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor
Which is what you said before. Well done twice in a row now, you cant read.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."
Originally posted by xmarksthespotAt least you seem to be grasping the distinction I have between a powerset and a feat.
Er see above. Furthermore thats no different from what you said before.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
These things aren't analagous. And it isn't about what people can do in the real world. It's about what characters can do given their powersets in the comic book world.Dr Strange is the Sorceror Supreme. Doom is the genius ruler of Latveria. And Iron Man is a futurist industrialist genius with too much time on his hands.
eg Iron Mans powerset is his intellect which enbales him to build a suit that perform the power feat of Koing the Thing for example.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And regardless of whether you think that's her powerset, funnily enough, not everyone being you, not everyone defines a character's powerset in the exact same way as you by what you scrape off of Marvel.com... So chill. 🙂
Er xmarks you will probably find it in published verisons of Marvel Universe. Secondly even if it is off Marvel.com its OFFICIAL. Her Bio says she can do it the comics says she can do it. There is no argument its a fictional universe and in that Universe Mantis can knock out Thor.
Mars has a different atmosphere to Earth you dont apply the same rules as you do to Mars just because you dont like it 🤨