THe LT vs. Micheal the Arc Angel

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Being at the top of your food chain in your universe does not make you equal to the top of the food chain from another. Micheal most assuredly is more powerful than the LT as he is a living Heart of the Universe. I would wager that the LT all by himself would have a battle to fight all of DC's Higher ups. Micheal, Lucifer, the Spectre, Mr. Mxy, the Ultimator are all with in the wrealm of power that make them Unable to beaten by the likes of anything less than God's power.

LT has been defeated by the HOTU

Nvr is correct, it is inaccurate to say that the second most powerful entity of one universe is equal to the second most powerful entity of another.

By the way Thanos_HOTU, it is not Lucifer>Michael

Two displays of this, if we go by Vertigo, then his daughter who essentially became him, surpassed Lucifer and became god, she literally became Yaweh's equal; why does this matter? Because it was Michael's power which did this.

Most importantly Vertigo is not canon as it contradicts main DC storyline, the cannon Michael is the one who appears in mainstream DC and if we go by that then he effortlessly man handled a raging spectre.

Now Marvel and DC have both in the past shown Spectre and LT to be equals, so I equate them as such.

In other words Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Being at the top of your food chain in your universe does not make you equal to the top of the food chain from another. Micheal most assuredly is more powerful than the LT as he is a living Heart of the Universe. I would wager that the LT all by himself would have a battle to fight all of DC's Higher ups. Micheal, Lucifer, the Spectre, Mr. Mxy, the Ultimator are all with in the wrealm of power that make them Unable to beaten by the likes of anything less than God's power.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Explain why? -- Lucifer (w/ Michael's power) created a universe, that is his prime feature.
LT neutralized the infinity gems, you know the once that when Thanos had it he stated: All universes are but clay in my hand.

Micheal of the MAIN DCU soundly trumped the Spectre who was at his height in power.

Originally posted by Board Walker
LT has been defeated by the HOTU

Nvr is correct, it is inaccurate to say that the second most powerful entity of one universe is equal to the second most powerful entity of another.

Then why do you say TOAA is equal to The Presence?

All Im saying is its incredicbly difficult to compare such powerful beings.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Then why do you say TOAA is equal to The Presence?

Here's God (Yewhew) in the Vertigo universe, confirming that there is powers external even to his, that created him.

The Onle-Above-All (Supreme being) = The Unknow Forces (Supreme being)
LT (2nd only to the supreme being) = Presence

Aye?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yewhew is actually a lot weaker than the supreme being of Marvel, or even DC.

Here's God (Yewhew) in the Vertigo universe, confirming that there is powers external even to his, that created him.

The Onle-Above-All (Supreme being) = The Unknow Forces (Supreme being)
LT (2nd only to the supreme being) = Presence

Aye?

They are saying that it is inaccurate to assume that the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the 2nd most powerful being in DC. So I'm asking with that logic applied, then why do people assume that the first most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the first most powerful being in DC.

The answer is we don't know. And i think that's the point these are beings who are suppose to be beyond are understanding.

Originally posted by nimbus006

The answer is we don't know. And i think that's the point these are beings who are suppose to be beyond are understanding.

In a very large way, i can completely understand what your getting at

Since these beings are obviously drawn to real life parallels, its hard to gauge the true extent of thier powers as compaired to each other. And how would you? Who can create the most alternate universes? Who can throw a solar system the farthest? now to a POINT, you can gauge thier upwards by what they ahve done, but ultimately its not like they are ina state of constant creation and power, as most of thier nature is conceptual and implied. But in saying, it leaves alot to be wondered.

Sometimes i guess you could compare them relative to their own universes, but i dont know if this is the case here

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
In a very large way, i can completely understand what your getting at

Since these beings are obviously drawn to real life parallels, its hard to gauge the true extent of thier powers as compaired to each other. And how would you? Who can create the most alternate universes? Who can throw a solar system the farthest? now to a POINT, you can gauge thier upwards by what they ahve done, but ultimately its not like they are ina state of constant creation and power, as most of thier nature is conceptual and implied. But in saying, it leaves alot to be wondered.

Sometimes i guess you could compare them relative to their own universes, but i dont know if this is the case here

Thats exactly what Im saying. Yes maybe one has a higher on panel feat than the other, but perhaps that's b/c the other has not had the need to perform such a feat. Remember these beings are not like regular characters that have difinitive powers and limits. They answer only to the Supreme being in their own Universes.

Thank you for understanding my point.

Originally posted by Board Walker
LT has been defeated by the HOTU

Nvr is correct, it is inaccurate to say that the second most powerful entity of one universe is equal to the second most powerful entity of another.

By the way Thanos_HOTU, it is not Lucifer>Michael

Two displays of this, if we go by Vertigo, then his daughter who essentially became him, surpassed Lucifer and became god, she literally became Yaweh's equal; why does this matter? Because it was Michael's power which did this.

Most importantly Vertigo is not canon as it contradicts main DC storyline, the cannon Michael is the one who appears in mainstream DC and if we go by that then he effortlessly man handled a raging spectre.

Now Marvel and DC have both in the past shown Spectre and LT to be equals, so I equate them as such.

In other words Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

Michael has been compared to Tribunal. HOTI doesn't exist. Tribunal does. Didn't Lucifier have fits with Great Darkness? To me, all this rambling is quite pointless. Marvel has TOAA, Living Tribunal. DC has Presence, Spectre. That's a fact. Vertigo has there all powerful ppl. Lets include MoM.

My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

Originally posted by Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

So your saying Michael is more comparable to what THOTU use to be?

Originally posted by nimbus006
So your saying Michael is more comparable to what THOTU use to be?

I cannot say without speculating at this point Nimbus, HOTU was shown that it makes the user literally a multiverse and only a multiverse.

DC Michael on the otherhand, I do not know what his limit is.

The reason I do not compare Michael to LT or HOTU, is because both of the LT and the HOTU has been shown it has a limit; Michael has not.

Originally posted by Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

I like The One Above All>Living Tribunal. Presence>Spectre. Living Tribunal and Spectre said to equal. I know Michael for some has been compared to Living Tribunal. One Above All=Presence. Living Tribunal=Spectre. Michael and Lucifier everyone can differ

Originally posted by guy222
I like The One Above All>Living Tribunal. Presence>Spectre. Living Tribunal and Spectre said to equal. I know Michael for some has been compared to Living Tribunal. One Above All=Presence. Living Tribunal=Spectre. Michael and Lucifier everyone can differ

I like your way of wording, you do so in such a way where you clearly present your stance and opinion, but you do not blatantly force it upon others.

Originally posted by Board Walker
I like your way of wording, you do so in such a way where you clearly present your stance and opinion, but you do not blatantly force it upon others.

I appreciate that. Very kind. We all value are characters. Its hard to really determine who wins and loses. Living Tribunal to me is everything. Have a good one 🙂

Originally posted by Board Walker
I cannot say without speculating at this point Nimbus, HOTU was shown that it makes the user literally a multiverse and only a multiverse.

DC Michael on the otherhand, I do not know what his limit is.

The reason I do not compare Michael to LT or HOTU, is because both of the LT and the HOTU has been shown it has a limit; Michael has not.

I see your point. But just because we haven't seen Michael's limits doesn't mean he doesnt have them. If he didn't what would seperate him from God?

Originally posted by nimbus006
I see your point. But just because we haven't seen Michael's limits doesn't mean he doesnt have them. If he didn't what would seperate him from God?

DC loosely relates to the bible and many other philosophies and religions, the name Michael means "Who is as/like God".

Just putting that out there.

Yes wiki-pedia is an informative site 😛 , however we know he isn't literally god...correct? By that fact we can assume he does have some limit.

Originally posted by nimbus006
They are saying that it is inaccurate to assume that the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the 2nd most powerful being in DC. So I'm asking with that logic applied, then why do people assume that the first most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the first most powerful being in DC.

The answer is we don't know. And i think that's the point these are beings who are suppose to be beyond are understanding.

Through the crossovers it's allways stated that they're equal (if the one lacks something, it's superior in something else, such as cosmic power and magic)
But powerwise they're allways equal.

Not Like nvrbeenwthagrl claims:
Lucifer > Michael > Ultimator > Spectre > Superman > Lois Lame >> Livving Tribunal

Originally posted by Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

Compare that to Superman beating Darkseid, or better, Spectre giving Batman the Bat-kick.