Originally posted by MarxmanIronic, such a selfish attitude coming from a supposed Marxist.
File sharing has contributed to 90% of my music library. I don't pretend that its justifiable in anyway according to society's current moral code. But shit, I steal stuff. Tough shit. I'm going to always look for the easiest way to get something I want.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
...No fun. How about this then. Although I wouldn't download it, I think all music should be free. It's artists who have their heart and head in the wrong place that sit there complaining and whining about people stealing their new record.
Ahh, see, now that I know you're only looking for arguments that I think are stupid, just so we can enter a pointless impasse, I'll give your arguments much less attention.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Music is here to share...and it comes from somewhere much greater than us. There's two kinds of musicians in this world, ones who come up with music and say, "wow I'm good"...and ones who come up with music can say, "wow that's good"...and that's the correct reaction. They didn't ACTUALLY create the song out of their own abilities. They didn't make their brains, emotions or soul to come up with it...that's ridiculous.
Not half as ridiculous as that statement is.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Even with a guitarist...there's ones who stand there ripping on their axe and are like "look how awesome I am"...and ones who rip on their axe and can say "hey...look what's happening, look what I can do", which is the proper reaction. Their hands are doing it, but they didn't create what they're doing...it's coming out of them from creation.
Read that back to yourself, please. It's sad that you do this just to get a reaction, no further will I indulge such stupidity, I'm afraid.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I'd personally feel like a s*#% charging someone for my music...I'd feel good just wanting to give it to them and have them enjoy it, and have them save their money too...like it should be.
Yes, and then maybe everybody will do their jobs for free...right?
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
If they really enjoy it, they might give me money to make more. I'm just lucky to be someone who's being used to deliver it, and unlike most rock stars who think they're the bees knees , I'll be happy playing my role in the grand scheme of things and won't b*%$# if someone decides to copy my CD and give it to others.
There's a difference between "Hey man, I'm doing this cos I want more money." (Greed) and "Hey man, pay for that, I worked hard on it.". Artists aren't all going out there with the standpoint of "This music is for you listeners.". They make it for themselves, as it should be, and due to the human necessity of working for a living, charge people who want said music. There's a difference between making your work available to people and making it FOR people. Any true artist does the former.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It's truly sad how pathetic and whorish a lot of popular musicans are. They'll b*%$# about this downloading thing just so they can stay in the game to get the next record deal or paycheque...and for what...so that they can give the world what they've probably fooled themselves into thinking is actually a relevant album, but what is most often truly uninspired song writing, and almost always a poor excuse for an entire album...and this is no surprise considering the driving force for a lot of them is usually money, not inspiration. What a lame, embarrasing existence. Can't say this is true for all musicians, some have lots of money and don't need to whore themselves out, others don't want to becasue of their integrity... but as a whole, popular musicians are a bunch of whores who in the grand scheme of things have no real business charging ANYONE for anything...especially crap that was created for cash. Pathetic.
So we've established that being in it for the greed is stupid. Congrats.
You can be an entirely selfless musician who gives away music if you want to, but there are people inbetween who do it for a living but aren't hell bent on greed. They don't deserve to be ripped off.
You saying "I would be fine giving my music away!" is all well and good, but you aren't interested in a, nor do you have a, music career that you depend on to live off. So it's easy for you. If I wrote a song, I'd have no problems putting it up for download if people wanted to hear it, I don't intend to live off it. If I did, I wouldn't.
Don't assume there are two extremes with nothing in the middle; The travelling free musician and the greedy mainstream "artist". Also, don't give me that bs of "If they enjoy it, cash shouldn't matter.". If you enjoy it, you have every right to want to do it for a living, and to do that, you need to be paid. Maybe if people stopped being so selfish as to expect their favourite artists to be poor and just get a normal job while doing music for free, and actually paid for music more, we'd not have as much shit in the mainstream.
You said yourself, musical careers do not stand out as a practicality, so it's extremely possible that these mythical travelling musicians are doing it because they don't believe it could happen another way, not because they see art as something that should be free. Proof? How about every real artist that has ever made a living? Are they wrong? No.
People live lives working jobs they hate, and in a lifetime, jobs take up a whole chunk. Woe betide someone actually wants to do something they love.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Bring it.
Know your role.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm afraid.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They make it for themselves, as it should be, and due to the human necessity of working for a living, charge people who want said music.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Know your role.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Sure...even I make music for myself. That's fine. I can go and sell it if I really want...nothing really wrong with that (although I'd rather give it away), but after that point, you shouldn't give a flying crap what the person who bought your music does with it...if he decides to share it for free online with the rest of the world, so be it. Musicians know that can happen, so bitching about the way things are with downloading these days is like bitching about gravity if your parachute isn't opening...they know the risk...yet still they b*%&#, and I have no respect for that.
To quote Mike Patton: "It's your right to choose how you listen to music, it's not your right to choose how it's distributed. Things are simply too far out of the artist's hands now.".
Do people have ability to do something they shouldn't? Yes. Should they have that ability? No. Will they ever NOT have that ability? Unlikely. This doesn't mean musicians have to shut up and like it. Accept that it happens, yes. Like it? No.
If people are pro-downloading, and are allowed to say so, the opposite will also exist, and rightfully so.
-AC
Originally posted by Skeets
Shouldn't he have at least some responsibility over his own work?
I have heard of artist who only record with specific people in a specific local because of this.
Yes, and it's obvious that some people do not do that. It doesn't mean they are to blame, they obviously work with people they feel they can trust. It's not their fault they can't.
The artist isn't responsible for what someone else does.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI agree with you, I wasn't defending just saying. I agree that the problem is becoming worse.
If you don't pay for an artist's work in an illegal manner, you're ripping them off.As for the "They're wealthy!", bs. I'm sure the first person who dropped litter thought "It's only me.". When more or less everyone on Earth does it, it becomes a problem.
-AC
Now a question:
Does anyone think that downloading actually helps a lot of artists? I tend to think that it does as people discover artists in this way and then become customers of both albums and concerts.
I download stuff that isn't easily available, such as tracks from games or movies that I already own. So it doesn't matter, I own the original medium that they exist on. I don't consider it stealing, as a result. You may disagree, if you do I suggest you contact someone who cares, I.E.: not me.
But it doesn't matter, download if you want, it's not hurting anyone except overpaid musicians. But beware, if you download music for free, recording artists will be forced to live a life of only semi - luxury.