Originally posted by Council#13
Although I'm not arguing with the fact that Anakin wins this with little difficulty, I think that you wrote out Luke's accomplishments to make them seem less significant.
Isn't this like the fifth time this has been done? Ah well, it's a good thread so mods please don't close it.
I think Anakin probably takes this, but Luke gives on tough fight. For one, I'm pretty sure Luke actually has higher potential than Anakin. Now, before I'm tarred and feathered hear me out. In a natural state Luke is supposed to have Anakin's potential, I believe. The big thing here is that Luke has an artificial enhancement for his powers. The Kaiburr Crystal gives him higher potential than even Anakin, I think.
The main thing is that Luke managed to overpower Vader. Even Anakin doesn't have the raw power to do that. Anakin is far faster though and should take this do to his superior training and experince, not latent Force Power.
What?!
Vader is only dangerous do to his force sensitivity and power. Otherwise he can't use a lightsaber for life. Anakin on the other hand has a moderate force level, and added to that his rage, youth, and saber skill would overcome Luke. Yes, I would say Luke would defeat Anakin in a force fight, but not by a lot. But there is no way that Anakin would loose to Luke in saber fight. However, as I see this is both a force and saber duel, I think Anakin takes this. Anakin is fueled by rage and just harnessed the full power of the dark side, which is the most powerful state a sith can go to. Vader was just kind of pissed off, Anakin in ROTS just lost everything. Guess who would be more enraged? Anakin.
Vader is a lightsaber master, who has killed MANY skilled Jedi and Jedi Masters in lightsaber combat, when he fights Luke he's going half hearted and his son gets a DS boost.
Anakin has a moderate force connection? I guess you didn't see where he started shattering buildings by screaming, holding beings up and crushing them with the force, augmenting his physical strength so much that Dooku could barley keep his grip on his saber, him toppling the statue in ROTS the game, him owning Sera Keto with the force, ect ect...Luke doesn't compare in either saber or force combat.
Vader, was at his peak in the OT, the only liability with the cybernetics was that he couldn't perform flips and that his respirator console could be shorted out. If anything his robotic appendages eliminated - to a large extent - the problem of fatigue and made Vader harder to injure.
As the guy above said, Luke never faced-off against Vader trying his best. Luke even reflects years after ROTJ that Vader could easily have killed him if he wanted to.
Anakin was a lot more skilled in the force and just as talented as Luke if not more so (given that he was birthed by the force itself).
Anakin would win this easily, he had a lot more training, has bigger potential then Luke(child of the Force itself) and had has a lot more battles and defeated better opponents(Dooku, Asajj, Cin Drallig and a lot more Jedi in the temple), while Luke defeated only Vader, who wasn't trying his best. Yea, Luke is a real challenge.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Do you think so? I really didn't try and make them less significant than they really are, what makes it seem like I did?
It just looks to me like their significance has been dimmed. But that's just what I think. It might not seem that way to other people, and apparently it's not what you intended, so it's all good. 😄
Anakin wins.
Anakin was able to collapse a rooftop that was covering a hallway. But again, it was only the portion of the rooftop covering the hallway, not the entire buidling. Whatmore, the attack was pure instinct and was never demonstrated again. So I doubt Anakin will able to pull it off in this fight.
He took down Ventress with minimal difficulty, outmuscled Dooku, and knocked Obi Wan around silly.
He was stated by Dooku as being the best Djem So users he's ever seen, but this brings into question, how man Djem So masters has Dooku really ever seen? Regardless, it's still a point towards Anakin.
Luke has trained for three years, and was fighting a version of Anakin that was afraid to harm his son. He uses the same form as his father. With less training and less oppurtunity to use said form, Luke should naturally be weaker at it.
Where is it stated that Vader was holding back in ROTJ? Until I see it in canon sources, I'm not holding opinions as facts, especially when it contradicts other sources (novel and comic). If you have a source, that's fine. Vader is very powerful, and, Luke beating him is a testament to Lukes power, not against Vaders. I definitely don't see Luke going down here without a tough fight.
Luke beat Vader in a duel. Vader is very powerful. Read RODV, or look at Purge.
Vader: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=026 http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=027
I need to go, but, I can bring up some quotes and such later, if you want.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Where is it stated that Vader was holding back in ROTJ? Until I see it in canon sources, I'm not holding opinions as facts, especially when it contradicts other sources (novel and comic). If you have a source, that's fine. Vader is very powerful, and, Luke beating him is a testament to Lukes power, not against Vaders. I definitely don't see Luke going down here without a tough fight.Luke beat Vader in a duel. Vader is very powerful. Read RODV, or look at Purge.
Vader: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=026 http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=027I need to go, but, I can bring up some quotes and such later, if you want.
Luke after being pwned by a nightsister of dathomir states that Vader would have humbled him in similar fashion had he wanted to harm him in ROTJ. The source is the courtship of princess Leia .
"In his battles with Darth Vader and the Emperor, Luke felt he had never truly tested his powers to the limits. Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive."
"His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield. So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me. "
Now, Luke having trouble with the Nightsisters makes sense and all, seeing as how Yoda did. ( "The report was nearly four hundred standard years old. Then Yoda appeared on the video, gazing up at the throne. His color was more vibrantly green than Luke remembered, and he did not use his walking stick. At middle age, Yoda had looked almost perky, carefree?not the bent, troubled old Jedi Luke had known. Most of the audio was erased, but through the background hiss Yoda clearly said, "We tried to free the Chu'unthor from Dathomir, but were repulsed by the witches . . . skirmish, with Masters Gra'aton and Vulatan. . . ." )
But what I don't get is it treating Luke as if he hadn't matured a day since ESB. He's still the whiny ANH Luke we see, when, we know that only two years later, he's taking down AT-AT's with the force and such.
Him reflecting on Vader being able to kill him makes it seem like he still could... It all seems like an inconsistency. However, we do know that, in lightsaber combat, Luke beat Vader.
Originally posted by jollyjim311Does this mean vader is as strong as post DE luke?
"In his battles with Darth Vader and the Emperor, Luke felt he had never truly tested his powers to the limits. Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive.""His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield. So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me. "
Now, Luke having trouble with the Nightsisters makes sense and all, seeing as how Yoda did. ( "The report was nearly four hundred standard years old. Then Yoda appeared on the video, gazing up at the throne. His color was more vibrantly green than Luke remembered, and he did not use his walking stick. At middle age, Yoda had looked almost perky, carefree?not the bent, troubled old Jedi Luke had known. Most of the audio was erased, but through the background hiss Yoda clearly said, "We tried to free the Chu'unthor from Dathomir, but were repulsed by the witches . . . skirmish, with Masters Gra'aton and Vulatan. . . ." )
But what I don't get is it treating Luke as if he hadn't matured a day since ESB. He's still the whiny ANH Luke we see, when, we know that only two years later, he's taking down AT-AT's with the force and such.
Him reflecting on Vader being able to kill him makes it seem like he still could... It all seems like an inconsistency. However, we do know that, in lightsaber combat, Luke beat Vader.