ill say the same as i said before, Kil'jaeden still has not enough bonds of power that id give him an instant win over the Lich king who will still know nothing much about. As said that long time ago, a lot of Kiljaedens plans backfired, he has never tried to attack Lich king head on combine that with the fact that he needed the Orcs, he came to the Orcs to make them his, if he was so powerful why would he want the Orcs, he wanted them, and he used Gul'dan and tried to use Nerzuel. Yet Nerzuel slapped him in the face, even in the end, Kiljaedens Wrath only ended up adding to Nerzuels power so much
i just dont see why anyone thinks so highly of Killy, all i see is a rank
Originally posted by Burning thought
ill say the same as i said before, Kil'jaeden still has not enough bonds of power that id give him an instant win over the Lich king who will still know nothing much about. As said that long time ago, a lot of Kiljaedens plans backfired, he has never tried to attack Lich king head on combine that with the fact that he [B]needed the Orcs, he came to the Orcs to make them his, if he was so powerful why would he want the Orcs, he wanted them, and he used Gul'dan and tried to use Nerzuel. Yet Nerzuel slapped him in the face, even in the end, Kiljaedens Wrath only ended up adding to Nerzuels power so muchi just dont see why anyone thinks so highly of Killy, all i see is a rank [/B]
You have valid views, but a few corrections are needed 🙂
Kil'Jaeden never tried attacking the Lich King because he as good as never interact in direct combat. He uses others to take on his dirty work, but after the failure of Illidan has Kil'Jaeden decided to take actions in his own hands. He does not stay away from Lich King because he fear him, but because he thinks one step ahead. Trough the failure of Illidan does Kil'Jaeden know what he is up against. He have now asked Kael'Thas to summon him to Azeroth. You should be capable of guessing why 🙂
Exactly. To correct the misstakes that his servants have made.
Another correction would be that Kil'Jaeden never needed the orcs. He never has and never will. The fact remains that he wanted the orcs, but he does not need them. He used them to enforce the Burning Legion and have them do his dirty work in the search for Velen. They are paws in a massive chess game. Paws that will bleed for his selfish needs to destroy Velen. He could have used the Dreadlords or any other force from the Burning Legion, but he did not wish to use such powerful resource in a simple job such as tracking the Draenei down.
He had the orcs kneel before him, because he could and they would. He fooled Ner'Zhul to have them all unite. The stronger the Burning Legion became, the better would they serve the means of Sargeras and Kil'jaeden.
You see the rank of a Burning legion Lieutenant, which is proof enough that you are not eligable to discuss in Lich King's matter. I see a mighty Eredar that overcome his foes with intellect over brute power. A might Eredar that holds unimaginable powers, but uses them only as last resort. A mighty Eredar that has barely been needing his massive powers trough his life due to his extreme intellect. A mighty Eredar that is the best of the better. He is among the more powerful characters in history. He is above the aspects, he is above Archimonde and he is above any one force in the Burning Legion.
Lich King broke out from his grasp, yes. Lich King is of surpreeme intellect, yes. Lich King lacks what it takes to take down the furious Kil'jaeden. In size alone would Kil'Jaeden have Lich King quiver.
Originally posted by Fuddle
You have valid views, but a few corrections are needed 🙂Kil'Jaeden never tried attacking the Lich King because he as good as never interact in direct combat. He uses others to take on his dirty work, but after the failure of Illidan has Kil'Jaeden decided to take actions in his own hands. He does not stay away from Lich King because he fear him, but because he thinks one step ahead. Trough the failure of Illidan does Kil'Jaeden know what he is up against. He have now asked Kael'Thas to summon him to Azeroth. You should be capable of guessing why 🙂
Exactly. To correct the misstakes that his servants have made.
Another correction would be that Kil'Jaeden never needed the orcs. He never has and never will. The fact remains that he wanted the orcs, but he does not need them. He used them to enforce the Burning Legion and have them do his dirty work in the search for Velen. They are paws in a massive chess game. Paws that will bleed for his selfish needs to destroy Velen. He could have used the Dreadlords or any other force from the Burning Legion, but he did not wish to use such powerful resource in a simple job such as tracking the Draenei down.
He had the orcs kneel before him, because he could and they would. He fooled Ner'Zhul to have them all unite. The stronger the Burning Legion became, the better would they serve the means of Sargeras and Kil'jaeden.
You see the rank of a Burning legion Lieutenant, which is proof enough that you are not eligable to discuss in Lich King's matter. I see a mighty Eredar that overcome his foes with intellect over brute power. A might Eredar that holds unimaginable powers, but uses them only as last resort. A mighty Eredar that has barely been needing his massive powers trough his life due to his extreme intellect. A mighty Eredar that is the best of the better. He is among the more powerful characters in history. He is above the aspects, he is above Archimonde and he is above any one force in the Burning Legion.
Lich King broke out from his grasp, yes. Lich King is of surpreeme intellect, yes. Lich King lacks what it takes to take down the furious Kil'jaeden. In size alone would Kil'Jaeden have Lich King quiver.
👆 great post.
Originally posted by Fuddle
You have valid views, but a few corrections are needed 🙂Kil'Jaeden never tried attacking the Lich King because he as good as never interact in direct combat. He uses others to take on his dirty work, but after the failure of Illidan has Kil'Jaeden decided to take actions in his own hands. He does not stay away from Lich King because he fear him, but because he thinks one step ahead. Trough the failure of Illidan does Kil'Jaeden know what he is up against. He have now asked Kael'Thas to summon him to Azeroth. You should be capable of guessing why 🙂
Exactly. To correct the misstakes that his servants have made.
Another correction would be that Kil'Jaeden never needed the orcs. He never has and never will. The fact remains that he wanted the orcs, but he does not need them. He used them to enforce the Burning Legion and have them do his dirty work in the search for Velen. They are paws in a massive chess game. Paws that will bleed for his selfish needs to destroy Velen. He could have used the Dreadlords or any other force from the Burning Legion, but he did not wish to use such powerful resource in a simple job such as tracking the Draenei down.
He had the orcs kneel before him, because he could and they would. He fooled Ner'Zhul to have them all unite. The stronger the Burning Legion became, the better would they serve the means of Sargeras and Kil'jaeden.
You see the rank of a Burning legion Lieutenant, which is proof enough that you are not eligable to discuss in Lich King's matter. I see a mighty Eredar that overcome his foes with intellect over brute power. A might Eredar that holds unimaginable powers, but uses them only as last resort. A mighty Eredar that has barely been needing his massive powers trough his life due to his extreme intellect. A mighty Eredar that is the best of the better. He is among the more powerful characters in history. He is above the aspects, he is above Archimonde and he is above any one force in the Burning Legion.
Lich King broke out from his grasp, yes. Lich King is of surpreeme intellect, yes. Lich King lacks what it takes to take down the furious Kil'jaeden. In size alone would Kil'Jaeden have Lich King quiver.
exactley, always using pawns, he has never in the games at least attacked himself an opponent no matter if his pawns fail, always does he use others. He gets slaped the face by the King and the lich king knows he cant do anything about it, the Lich king has planned ahead all along, i think Kil'jaeden has made a big mistake.
Needed, ofc he needed them, otherwise he would not of wanted them, a want always comes from a need, even if he just needed some servants, yet he keeps using these pawns, never his powers, which ive seen nought of....
Overcame? who has he Overcome, its Lich king who has overcome foes with intellect and beaten down his Jailers. Unimaginable powers? when please, show me when he shows unimaginable power. Now your dragging it, best of the better means nothing...most powerful, please show me when? so far all hes done is plan and scheme and some of the schemes have gone down the drain
nopes, i dont think the Lich King fears anything now, he is simply unconcerned of Kil'jaeden especially not in size, Argewyn the guardian did not fear Sargerus himself, what makes you think the ancient Orc and now incredible mind powered being that is Lich king would be fearful of Kiljaedens size. Incapable? you dont have any knowledge on Lich king and neither does anyone about his current powers....(except Blizzard ofc). For all we know, Lich King is already putting his plans in motion into destroying all his enemies, i think i read somewhere that hes planning to exterminate all life on Azeroth, its also Debatable wether Goddess elune is one Azeroth, since its she who he is also intending to destroy, she is the only true Godess i can think of or being of God level i can think of atm.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You did first page. 😛
i said for all we know he could be, i was simply playing on the fact people are being so definite in Kiljaeden being such an uber being when to my knowledge he has not ever even used much power or has any proof he is so great in power, the contraints he has shows his power is not so brilliant. Yet people are almost definite when we have no knowledge on how powerful LK is right now
i think Elune>Killy and Lich king plans on killing her, its also stated he is the strongest being in Azeroth, Elune is sort of in Azeroth, she is at least a frequent here
i know planning does not mean doing but LK is not the sort to go on a wild goose chase if he knew he had no chance, if it was an orc planning to do this or a mere human i would ignore them but since its LK who is incredibly intelligent and stated to be most powerful in Azeroth, i feel almost sure he is certainly not going to definaltey lose to Killy
Originally posted by Burning thoughtYou think that Killy doesn't deserve all the hype he gets, and still think he beats Pyron? 😐
i said for all we know he could be, i was simply playing on the fact people are being so definite in Kiljaeden being such an uber being when to my knowledge he has not ever even used much power or has any proof he is so great in power, the contraints he has shows his power is not so brilliant. Yet people are almost definite when we have no knowledge on how powerful LK is right now
I agree tho, we have no idea what their power levels are.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You think that Killy doesn't deserve all the hype he gets, and still think he beats Pyron? 😐I agree tho, we have no idea what their power levels are.
dont remember saying he beats a full powered pyron, the fact of the matter is that Kiljaeden can do stuff with magic and souls and we know Pyron doesnt think much of magic at all and has been beaten by it before
wheras LK nor Killy have such written in stone power levels or weaknesses, especially LK
Originally posted by Burning thought1. It's not so much he doesn't think much of it, he just didn't know anything about it, it was sumthin entirely new to him.
dont remember saying he beats a full powered pyron, the fact of the matter is that Kiljaeden can do stuff with magic and souls and we know Pyron doesnt think much of magic at all and has been beaten by it beforewheras LK nor Killy have such written in stone power levels or weaknesses, especially LK
2. Well, Killy's weakness would be Orc shamans. 😄
Originally posted by Burning thought
exactley, always using pawns, he has never in the games at least attacked himself an opponent no matter if his pawns fail, always does he use others. He gets slaped the face by the King and the lich king knows he cant do anything about it, the Lich king has planned ahead all along, i think Kil'jaeden has made a big mistake.Needed, ofc he needed them, otherwise he would not of wanted them, a want always comes from a need, even if he just needed some servants, yet he keeps using these pawns, never his powers, which ive seen nought of....
Overcame? who has he Overcome, its Lich king who has overcome foes with intellect and beaten down his Jailers. Unimaginable powers? when please, show me [B] when
he shows unimaginable power. Now your dragging it, best of the better means nothing...most powerful, please show me when? so far all hes done is plan and scheme and some of the schemes have gone down the drainnopes, i dont think the Lich King fears anything now, he is simply unconcerned of Kil'jaeden especially not in size, Argewyn the guardian did not fear Sargerus himself, what makes you think the ancient Orc and now incredible mind powered being that is Lich king would be fearful of Kiljaedens size. Incapable? you dont have any knowledge on Lich king and neither does anyone about his current powers....(except Blizzard ofc). For all we know, Lich King is already putting his plans in motion into destroying all his enemies, i think i read somewhere that hes planning to exterminate all life on Azeroth, its also Debatable wether Goddess elune is one Azeroth, since its she who he is also intending to destroy, she is the only true Godess i can think of or being of God level i can think of atm. [/B]
He uses others because he can. He does not need to use others. The more that serve Kil'Jaeden, the less will he have to fight. He is smart beyond many others in the warcraft world, and the more people he has fighting under his command, the mightier is the Burning Legion. Kil'jaeden was not brought in to simply destroy. Sargeras saw his intellectual potentials and had him speak in the Burning Legion's behalf. He was taken in to lead in Sargeras place. Any enforcement he can add to the Burning Legion, he does add. Why destroy people when he can have them join him? If he did not join in with the orcs, they would have fought him and the legion, which would be a delay to his master plan (See Rise of the Horde)
I have no scanner, so if you do not believe in my words then that is your choice. Kil'Jaeden was granted unimaginable powers far above what he once had. He has powers that lies not within the boundaries of physical and magical ability, but in his mind. He expands at all time and most things that his mind is capable of in theory make happen, so can he make it happen. If he wish to destroy a mountain and in theory knows how this could happen, then his magical capabilities would allow so to occur.
Or he can simply shapeshift himself to a size double the mountain and rip it out of the ground with brute force (See Shadow and Light)
Trough the entire Rise of the Horde book, Ner'Zhul trembled before Kil'Jaeden. Even when Kil'Jaeden acted in kindless was Ner'Zhul afraid of him. Kil'Jaeden had forseen the betray of Ner'Zhul and yes, he flawed for putting someone as intelligent as Ner'Zhul in the frozen cascade. However, even though he granted Ner'Zhul the power to control undead and that combined with the power that Ner'Zhul already had and then the powers of Arthas. He may have expanded, but he has not expanded above Kil'Jaeden. He breached the enchantment that bound him to Kil'Jaeden and the Burning Legion. He regained a will of his own and expanded in mind, but the two are somewhat equal in intellect. No way can he exceed one that is only limited to the boundries of his mind.
Originally posted by Fuddle
He uses others because he can. He does not need to use others. The more that serve Kil'Jaeden, the less will he have to fight. He is smart beyond many others in the warcraft world, and the more people he has fighting under his command, the mightier is the Burning Legion. Kil'jaeden was not brought in to simply destroy. Sargeras saw his intellectual potentials and had him speak in the Burning Legion's behalf. He was taken in to lead in Sargeras place. Any enforcement he can add to the Burning Legion, he does add. Why destroy people when he can have them join him? If he did not join in with the orcs, they would have fought him and the legion, which would be a delay to his master plan (See Rise of the Horde)I have no scanner, so if you do not believe in my words then that is your choice. Kil'Jaeden was granted unimaginable powers far above what he once had. He has powers that lies not within the boundaries of physical and magical ability, but in his mind. He expands at all time and most things that his mind is capable of in theory make happen, so can he make it happen. If he wish to destroy a mountain and in theory knows how this could happen, then his magical capabilities would allow so to occur.
Or he can simply shapeshift himself to a size double the mountain and rip it out of the ground with brute force (See Shadow and Light)Trough the entire Rise of the Horde book, Ner'Zhul trembled before Kil'Jaeden. Even when Kil'Jaeden acted in kindless was Ner'Zhul afraid of him. Kil'Jaeden had forseen the betray of Ner'Zhul and yes, he flawed for putting someone as intelligent as Ner'Zhul in the frozen cascade. However, even though he granted Ner'Zhul the power to control undead and that combined with the power that Ner'Zhul already had and then the powers of Arthas. He may have expanded, but he has not expanded above Kil'Jaeden. He breached the enchantment that bound him to Kil'Jaeden and the Burning Legion. He regained a will of his own and expanded in mind, but the two are somewhat equal in intellect. No way can he exceed one that is only limited to the boundries of his mind.
prove he does not need them, seems pretty likely he needs them to me, and all this unimaginable powers means nothing, because that has been said about many beings, unless theres a source of this power i can see him useing that someone can show me then ill take it into consideration. He is constantly useing pawns and apprently although he is incredible intellectual...he continues...to use pawns even though they fail him over and over again, he obviously is not as intelligent as people think since even though he is losing ground because of pawns he continues to use them.
okie someone please who does have a scanner show me a feat, not words saying he has unimaginble power because it means nothing, an actual feat of him destroying, or using magic. Also ime curious in seeing a scan of where it says about this mind ability.
yes he wouod wouldnt he...hes a small Orc, yet he still has all this guile and cunning to keep escaping and bothering kiljaeden even as a mere Orc, unfortunatley he gets cought in the end. But what does Killy do? make him even more powerful...oh joy. Also prove he has not expanded over Killy....thats simply your opinion again, we do not know how much he has expanded in comparison to Killy from the beginning.
Originally posted by Burning thought
prove he does not need them, seems pretty likely he needs them to me, and all this unimaginable powers means nothing, because that has been said about many beings, unless theres a source of this power i can see him useing that someone can show me then ill take it into consideration. He is constantly useing pawns and apprently although he is incredible intellectual...he continues...to use pawns even though they fail him over and over again, he obviously is not as intelligent as people think since even though he is losing ground because of pawns he continues to use them.okie someone please who does have a scanner show me a feat, not words saying he has unimaginble power because it means nothing, an actual feat of him destroying, or using magic. Also ime curious in seeing a scan of where it says about this mind ability.
yes he wouod wouldnt he...hes a small Orc, yet he still has all this guile and cunning to keep escaping and bothering kiljaeden even as a mere Orc, unfortunatley he gets cought in the end. But what does Killy do? make him even more powerful...oh joy. Also prove he has not expanded over Killy....thats simply your opinion again, we do not know how much he has expanded in comparison to Killy from the beginning.
Where in the world have you gotten all this 'information'? Ner'Zhul never stood a chance against Kil'jaeden. He has never been a bother to Kil'Jaeden. He even rated himself as chanceless against The Beautiful One. He never escaped Kil'Jaeden either. When he decided not to serve Kil'Jaeden anymore, he did not dare to run away because the anger of Kil'Jaeden would be the end of the orcish race. Kil'Jaeden would have taken revenge on Ner'Zhuls united clans. He even considered suicide because he thought that it would be a better fate than facing the anger of Kil'Jaeden.
Whatever source you use for this discussion, I suggest you look the source up somewhat. Many of the things you have said, and keep on saying is inaccurate. Have you even read the book?
Originally posted by Fuddle
Where in the world have you gotten all this 'information'? Ner'Zhul never stood a chance against Kil'jaeden. He has never been a bother to Kil'Jaeden. He even rated himself as chanceless against The Beautiful One. He never escaped Kil'Jaeden either. When he decided not to serve Kil'Jaeden anymore, he did not dare to run away because the anger of Kil'Jaeden would be the end of the orcish race. Kil'Jaeden would have taken revenge on Ner'Zhuls united clans. He even considered suicide because he thought that it would be a better fate than facing the anger of Kil'Jaeden.Whatever source you use for this discussion, I suggest you look the source up somewhat. Many of the things you have said, and keep on saying is inaccurate. Have you even read the book?
what are you talking about....he did escape Kil'jaeden, he refused to help Kiljaeden in the end and he travled across worlds and it was only until he went through the final portal when Kiljaeden actually cought him.
Ner'Zhul is also the Lich King....incase you did not know....the Lich King has thwarted Kiljaedens plans many times with his own, and the first of which was escpaing his jailers.