Kil'jaeden vs Lichking

Originally posted by Burning thought
what are you talking about....he did escape Kil'jaeden, he refused to help Kiljaeden in the end and he travled across worlds and it was only until he went through the final portal when Kiljaeden actually cought him.

Ner'Zhul is also the Lich King....incase you did not know....the Lich King has thwarted Kiljaedens plans many times with his own, and the first of which was escpaing his jailers.

He chased Velen across worlds, not Ner'Zhul. He refused to help Kil'Jaeden yes, but he did not flee the location. It was Velen that was captured by Kil'Jaedens 'paws' and it was Velen who fled after being captured. It was Velen who traveled from one world to the other, constantly fleeing from Kil'Jaeden.

After the very first betrayal, Ner'Zhul almost approved of being a spectator as Kil'Jaeden corrupted the orcs. He stayed with the orcs trough major parts of the corruption but only as a spectator. Gul'Dan was assigned prime of the orcs after the treason of Ner'Zhul.

In case you did not know.

I know Ner'Zhul is the Lich King. Do you know who Ner'Zhul is? Does not seem like it.

Originally posted by Fuddle
He chased Velen across worlds, not Ner'Zhul. He refused to help Kil'Jaeden yes, but he did not flee the location. It was Velen that was captured by Kil'Jaedens 'paws' and it was Velen who fled after being captured. It was Velen who traveled from one world to the other, constantly fleeing from Kil'Jaeden.

After the very first betrayal, Ner'Zhul almost approved of being a spectator as Kil'Jaeden corrupted the orcs. He stayed with the orcs trough major parts of the corruption but only as a spectator. Gul'Dan was assigned prime of the orcs after the treason of Ner'Zhul.

I know Ner'Zhul is the Lich King. Do you know who Ner'Zhul is? Does not seem like it.

what? i wasnt talking about Velen, Velens an Eredar, were talking about Orcs, Ner'Zhuel the Orc did at some point flee from Kil'jaeden, in the storyline Killy doesnt randomly grab him up, he waits for him by a portal in secret and takes him, i think it was when Ner'zhul broke Outland with his spellwork portals and thought hed escaped and Kiljaeden was waiting

heres proof he needed the Orcs

Warcraft story
Kil'jaeden surmised that he needed a new force to weaken Azeroth's defenses before the Legion even set foot upon the world

Warcraft story
Yet the old shaman, sensing that his people would be enslaved to hatred forever, somehow resisted the demon's command

wow, Ner'zhuls quite strong, resisted a command from Kiljaeden...as an Orc this is ofc.....lawls...

it was only until Ner'zhul blew up Dreanor and went through into the twisting nether itself did Killy actually get him

i suggest you look up your own sources....

Originally posted by Burning thought
what? i wasnt talking about Velen, Velens an Eredar, were talking about Orcs, Ner'Zhuel the Orc did at some point flee from Kil'jaeden, in the storyline Killy doesnt randomly grab him up, he waits for him by a portal in secret and takes him, i think it was when Ner'zhul broke Outland with his spellwork portals and thought hed escaped and Kiljaeden was waiting

heres proof he needed the Orcs

wow, Ner'zhuls quite strong, resisted a command from Kiljaeden...as an Orc this is ofc.....lawls...

it was only until Ner'zhul blew up Dreanor and went through into the twisting nether itself did Killy actually get him

We are talking about the orcs, but you are talking about Velen while thinking you are talking about Ner'Zhul. Ner'Zhul fled ONCE from Kil'Jaeden while Velen fled from one world to the other. Ner'Zhul walked trough one portal, only to be caught on the other side. When he tried to flee, his run did not last for long. Kil'Jaeden was waiting for him, yes. However, I think you are confusing multiple historical events of warcraft. At least so it seems when you write many of your things.

What proof is that? Wikipedia? Some random warcraft site out on the web? I have a number of books and I have NEVER read that. He took the orcs under his 'wings' because he did not bother with the Draenei on his own. He did not even take them because he needed to assault Azeroth. His primary objective was to destroy the Draenei, but when everything else failed- Kil'Jaeden sent them to Azeroth because it was the command of Sargeras. They were not there to weaken the defense for the Burning Legion to enter. They WERE the Burning Legion. They went there- not because they were supposed to break down the defenses, but because they were starving. Sargeras opened the portal into Azeroth and the orcs rushed in with the belief that they would encounter a green world with food, lots of room and battles to bring forth.

Whoever wrote that 'proof' should be taught a lesson.

What did Ner'Zhul resist? Where in the world did you get that? Ner'Zhul did not sense it. He found parchments that indicated that they would corrupt the orcish race with demon blood. He was not even under Kil'Jaedens command when he found out about the orcish corruption plans.

Originally posted by Fuddle
We are talking about the orcs, but you are talking about Velen while thinking you are talking about Ner'Zhul. Ner'Zhul fled ONCE from Kil'Jaeden while Velen fled from one world to the other. Ner'Zhul walked trough one portal, only to be caught on the other side. When he tried to flee, his run did not last for long. Kil'Jaeden was waiting for him, yes. However, I think you are confusing multiple historical events of warcraft. At least so it seems when you write many of your things.

What proof is that? Wikipedia? Some random warcraft site out on the web? I have a number of books and I have NEVER read that. He took the orcs under his 'wings' because he did not bother with the Draenei on his own. He did not even take them because he needed to assault Azeroth. His primary objective was to destroy the Draenei, but when everything else failed- Kil'Jaeden sent them to Azeroth because it was the command of Sargeras. They were not there to weaken the defense for the Burning Legion to enter. They [b]WERE the Burning Legion. They went there- not because they were supposed to break down the defenses, but because they were starving. Sargeras opened the portal into Azeroth and the orcs rushed in with the belief that they would encounter a green world with food, lots of room and battles to bring forth.

Whoever wrote that 'proof' should be taught a lesson.

What did Ner'Zhul resist? Where in the world did you get that? Ner'Zhul did not sense it. He found parchments that indicated that they would corrupt the orcish race with demon blood. He was not even under Kil'Jaedens command when he found out about the orcish corruption plans. [/B]

LMAO!! i love it when this happens, someone moans about my sources and then i get to do this...the terribly unreliable and random site is...

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter3.html

😆 very bad Blizzard

tought a lesson? yeh Naughty Blizzard, perhaps you should ring em up or sumfin or email, tell em their stories wrong durlaugh

Originally posted by Burning thought
LMAO!! i love it when this happens, someone moans about my sources and then i get to do this...the terribly unreliable and random site is...

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter3.html

😆 very bad Blizzard

tought a lesson? yeh Naughty Blizzard, perhaps you should ring em up or sumfin or email, tell em their stories wrong durlaugh

Get yourself the books (Shadow and Light, Rise of the Horde), is my advice. That which you use is a large, wordentangled summary of what happens.

First of all, Kil'jaeden was not frustrated. he was disappointed. Ner'Zhul did not sense the corruption at that point. He had just communicated with the spirits and learnt that Kil'Jaeden had been tricking him for months. Gul'Dan had spied on Ner'Zhul as he communicated with the spirits on the spiritual mountain and went straight to Kil'Jaeden- who for a brief moment did not believe it. They both appeared together in front of Ner'Zhul and Ner'Zhul was declared a traitor of Kil'Jaedens cause. Gul'Dan pledged himself at the very same moment and bowed for Kil'Jaeden as his new voice for the orcs.

I can declare that source as inaccurate even though it is their official homepage. If you had read the book before leading a discussion, you too would agree with me.

Originally posted by Fuddle
Get yourself the books (Shadow and Light, Rise of the Horde), is my advice. That which you use is a large, wordentangled summary of what happens.

I can declare that source as inaccurate even though it is their official homepage. If you had read the book before leading a discussion, you too would agree with me.

thats wonderful to say, go get the books and read them all, no i think ill wait until someone who already has the books can scan them in, otherwise id be wasting my time thank you very much, silly thing to say of you.

You declare the official story of Blizzard innaccurate, maybe the Books are just going round the houses, whta makes you think the books>>the official story, that story there tells us what happens quite clearly, if the books have gone a little crooked from the story there then its not my fault

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats wonderful to say, go get the books and read them all, no i think ill wait until someone who already has the books can scan them in, otherwise id be wasting my time thank you very much, silly thing to say of you.

You declare the official story of Blizzard innaccurate, maybe the Books are just going round the houses, whta makes you think the books>>the official story, that story there tells us what happens quite clearly, if the books have gone a little crooked from the story there then its not my fault

She's right, you know.. I can get you a scan.. I have the Rise of the Horde book..

You got any pages I should scan, Fuddle? I recognize a lot of what you say.. At least the parts from "Rise of the Horde"

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
She's right, you know.. I can get you a scan.. I have the Rise of the Horde book..

You got any pages I should scan, Fuddle? I recognize a lot of what you say.. At least the parts from "Rise of the Horde"

that may be so but id like to see what it says with my own eyes and what is your reason for thinking the books are over the official story on that page?

it sounds far less likely the Orcs are simply going to go along with the story, why would that be diffrent?, it says Ner'zhul defied the will of Kil'jaeden instead of succumbing and going bestial

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
She's right, you know.. I can get you a scan.. I have the Rise of the Horde book..

You got any pages I should scan, Fuddle? I recognize a lot of what you say.. At least the parts from "Rise of the Horde"

Licked! I will look the pages up and you can scan them 🙂

Originally posted by Burning thought
that may be so but id like to see what it says with my own eyes and what is your reason for thinking the books are over the official story on that page?

Because a summary can be eluding, while a book is the real deal. After all, your souce says it is from 'Rise of the Horde' 🙂

Originally posted by Fuddle
Because a summary can be eluding, while a book is the real deal. After all, your souce says it is from 'Rise of the Horde' 🙂

what do you mean the book is the real deal, what came first, the book or the official story on that page?

Alright! 192 and 193 from Rise of the Horde is the encounter between Gul'Dan, Kil'Jaeden and Ner'Zhul 🙂

I will come with more pages soon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
what do you mean the book is the real deal, what came first, the book or the official story on that page?

The book. That page is a summary of the book, if you did not know. Or do you not check up on your sources before you use them?

Originally posted by Fuddle
The book. That page is a summary of the book, if you did not know. Or do you not check up on your sources before you use them?

ime not so sure about the page being a summary of the book, since thats been there for a long time, the book was only published December 2006

however the front page does say the information may be out of date, in which case i am open to the books once Darth posts them in and proves it

192, 193

excellent, those pages tell me quite well and how much Ner'zhul was not afraid it seemed most of the time, he was always ready to defy Kil'jaeden

Kil'jaeden still had to wait until his wayward Orc had messed up that whats it called, begins with D and made it outland. i have not seen or read proof that Kiljaeden did it diffrently in the book

Great! Thanks a lot, newly discovered buddy 🙂

End of page 349 will show the real reason that the orcs marched into Azeroth. They did it out of own will and not because they had orders to lower the defense.

Originally posted by Burning thought
excellent, those pages tell me quite well and how much Ner'zhul was not afraid it seemed most of the time, he was always ready to defy Kil'jaeden

Kil'jaeden still had to wait until his wayward Orc had messed up that whats it called, begins with D and made it outland. i have not seen or read proof that Kiljaeden did it diffrently in the book

Draenor 🙂

He was terrified of Kil'Jaeden even there. But after he had learnt that Kil'jaeden was tricking him all along he wanted to commit suicide. He wanted to die, which was why he dared say against Kil'jaeden in the first place.

You want a scan of that too?

At his at that point current state, Ner'Zhul could have said the same things to an angered Sargeras if so was the case. He was terrified of Kil'jaeden and prayed that he would kill him for his words. It would save him from his shame and it would be quick. Kil'Jaeden kept him alive for the same reason that Ner'Zhul wanted to die. Because he wanted him to suffer and see how his people slowly was corrupted without he capable of doing anything about it.

End of 349

Sorry about the quality

whats funny is, Ner'Zhul as an Orc is completly irrelevent to this battle..but it was fun discussing it

i suppose we shall find out in this upcoming expansion, or better a book of the lore instead of having to go by WoW gameplay to see Lich Kings powers

Originally posted by Burning thought
whats funny is, Ner'Zhul as an Orc is completly irrelevent to this battle..but it was fun discussing it

i suppose we shall find out in this upcoming expansion, or better a book of the lore instead of having to go by WoW gameplay to see Lich Kings powers

There's no known real fact about Lich King in lore yet.. The only thing doable is speculations..

But it isnt irrelevant.. He expanded from that self, and then that self is what we'll have to calculate from.-.

Thank you for the scans. I think the point is proven for now, even though you would need to read the entire books to get it in whole. But what is shown is that the summary on their homepage is not fully reliable 🙂