Originally posted by capt it up
DD win was PIS I ahve proven it to be PIS. It was written by Ennis. In a non PIS fight DD was taken out in 5 pannels by Logan.
Sigh...here we go.
Okay, capt. Let's just say we follow that logic. According to what you say, DD's win over Logan was PIS, but Logan's win over DD was not. Of course. 🙄
How come I cannot just declare that Logan's win over DD was PIS? I mean, all you used was the fact that Ennis wrote it. So what? Who wrote the Logan win over DD? Perhaps he screwed something up, eh?
All I'm saying is that just declaring something to be PIS SOLELY because of a specific is pretty lame.
....It was somewhat stupid and induced by plot because Wolverine has taken much tougher shots to the exact same area with no ill effect.
That win over Wolverine, written by a writer who's name can easily be breathed in the same sentence as Hudlin's, WAS PIS, MetalMan. Most of the forum has already agreed on that count, 😬.
Originally posted by Soljer
....It was somewhat stupid and induced by plot because Wolverine has taken much tougher shots to the exact same area with no ill effect.That win over Wolverine, written by a writer who's name can easily be breathed in the same sentence as Hudlin's, WAS PIS, MetalMan. Most of the forum has already agreed on that count, 😬.
Me thinks you missed the point of the post. Which is okay, since it wasn't really directed towards you anyway, Soljer.
While I'm not arguing that it's not PIS, the logic behind the claim is just absurd.
Yes, it the DD win over Logan was PIS. But as soon as Wolverine incapacitates DD in five panels it's considered 100% accurate?
The point of my previous post was to ask why it's automatically considered accurate and PIS-free when Wolverine wins, but vice versa when he loses?
I never said it was totally legit for Wolverine to stomp Daredevil like that. I don't really think it is legit. A fight between the two would likely go to Wolverine everytime, but it would not be any simple encounter, their fight would probably take quite a while, since Daredevil already knows where every claw will land.
However, I don't really think it's legit for Wolverine to stomp Shang Chi like he did.
So, maybe it's just my bias that makes me not like the fact that Logan beat Chi and Murdock so easily, 😬
Originally posted by Soljer
I never said it was totally legit for Wolverine to stomp Daredevil like that. I don't really think it is legit. A fight between the two would likely go to Wolverine everytime, but it would not be any simple encounter, their fight would probably take quite a while, since Daredevil already knows where every claw will land.However, I don't really think it's legit for Wolverine to stomp Shang Chi like he did.
So, maybe it's just my bias that makes me not like the fact that Logan beat Chi and Murdock so easily, 😬
Exactly, you see my point. 👆
Originally posted by marvelprince
Shang wins. Thats one confrontation you have of Matt actually a good fight from Frank, but in practically every other instance in their series Matt was getting the upper hand and beating him in most every instance.
Should that happen? In their first encounter Frank had good showings and almost killed DD in this fight.
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg
In their second fight DD had the upper hand, but Frank connected with him a sufficent number of times.
Frank loses to DD 7/10, but a well written Frank does not get manhandled by DD.
This is done by people who dont know Franks history, hell there is even one issue where Frank deflects Caps shield and could have killed him.
DD is more lethal than Shang why does Frank lose 7/10 to Shang?
Originally posted by marvelprince
Basically same thing in the fight with Bullseye. Bullseye was toying with Frank throughout their series. Frank is good, but Shang takes it to him
Ok show me where hes toying with Frank, is it here?
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg
Im confused because. I never knew that Bullseye liked being choked to death.
Originally posted by inamilist
🙂
So your not going to reply to my post then?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry but thats a little unfair. Frank may have used brutality in the fight but there was alot of martial arts as well. Frank even used a move on DD to dislocate his arm.http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6120vi.jpg
POP!
There is also this fight as well.
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg
There is also another fight where Frank fights DD an has a good showing. I dont expect Frank to beat DD but he is good enough to pull some wins.
You also did not mention the fight which shows Frank beating up Bullseye. Bullseye is a better fighter than DD
Yeah but DD has a radar sense that helps heighten his skills so I would have thought that DD would beeat Shang Chi. DD has better reflexes than Chi and is probably better at pressure points than Chi. DD has used his senses to shatter diamond.
If Frank can give DD that much trouble Chi is only beating Frank 6/10 or even 5/10. .
Originally posted by Metalmanx
It doesn't change the fact that Shang Chi is in a completely different league from Frank. He would destroy him 9/10 times. That 1 time is just a lucky shot for Frank.
Ok well whats this then?
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg
If you were also aware of Franks history he has another fight were he has a good showing against DD, sure Frank was losing but he put up a good fight.
Furthermore whats this then?
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Frank is a damage soak and an incredible fighter. Shang is top-tier, one of the best there is.
He is not just good at soaking damage he has three good showings on DD and has beaten Bullseye in h2H. Shang wins 6/10
DD win was PIS I ahve proven it to be PIS. It was written by Ennis. In a non PIS fight DD was taken out in 5 pannels by Logan.
DD got him with a advanced pressure-point to the neck. Logan went down and couldn't breathe. Even in a X-Men issue Logan went down to a female opponent because she tagged Logan well in the neck and she remarked how Logan is very vulnerable there.
So now add to that a advanced martial artist like DD. Lets face it, in comics writers are not going to always take the time and make for long dragged out lenthy battles as they should be, other wise most book-stories would never finish. What issue was DD taken out in 5 pannels out of curiosity?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Should that happen? In their first encounter Frank had good showings and almost killed DD in this fight.http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg
In their second fight DD had the upper hand, but Frank connected with him a sufficent number of times.
Frank loses to DD 7/10, but a well written Frank does not get manhandled by DD.
This is done by people who dont know Franks history, hell there is even one issue where Frank deflects Caps shield and could have killed him.
DD is more lethal than Shang why does Frank lose 7/10 to Shang?
Ok show me where hes toying with Frank, is it here?
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg
Im confused because. I never knew that Bullseye liked being choked to death.
So your not going to reply to my post then?
Ok well whats this then?
http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punisherdddw5.jpg
If you were also aware of Franks history he has another fight were he has a good showing against DD, sure Frank was losing but he put up a good fight.
Furthermore whats this then?
http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vfxpunishvervsbullseye40182ho.jpg
He is not just good at soaking damage he has three good showings on DD and has beaten Bullseye in h2H. Shang wins 6/10
Alf, could you do me a favor and stop thinking you're the only one who knows things about comics? Seriously, man. I like you, don't ruin that by assuming you're the only one with any knowledge of Frank's history. I see the scans just fine, too. Like I stated before, Frank is an INCREDIBLE fighter, 2nd Tier easily. And he's also a damage soak, which is not a bad thing. Frank's durability is so close to superhuman it's not even funny. But Shang is just lightyears away from Frank in terms of skill. As is DD really. But that would sure be a boring comic, wouldn't it?
Shang wins this fight 9/10.
Originally posted by Alfheim
So your not going to reply to my post then?
lol, i had missed it 🙂 sorry to make you indignant
Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sorry but thats a little unfair. Frank may have used brutality in the fight but there was alot of martial arts as well. Frank even used a move on DD to dislocate his arm.
I didn't say Frank didn't use martial arts. All marines are trained in some for of hand to hand combat, and I'm sure hes received training outside of that.
Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvspunisher6120vi.jpgPOP!
The words immediatly following that are "An arm for a leg. He's smarter than me." This is pretty much exactly what I said.
Originally posted by Alfheim
There is also this fight as well.
Frank sucker punches DD while he is talking?
EDIT: I looked at it again, its not a sucker punch, but it surely isn't proof of anything beyond what I have already argued for.... Unless the claim is Frank can one shot DD?
Originally posted by Alfheim
There is also another fight where Frank fights DD an has a good showing. I dont expect Frank to beat DD but he is good enough to pull some wins.
What is the point of this? I don't know what you are doing? All I have said is that Frank is a good fighter, so you post scans of him being beaten or almost winning against other good fighters to try to convince me of what?
Originally posted by Alfheim
You also did not mention the fight which shows Frank beating up Bullseye. Bullseye is a better fighter than DD
I don't agree that bullseye is greater than DD. There fight was very even and didn't finish. See above.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but DD has a radar sense that helps heighten his skills so I would have thought that DD would beeat Shang Chi. DD has better reflexes than Chi and is probably better at pressure points than Chi. DD has used his senses to shatter diamond.
This isn't chi vs DD, I don't really have an opinion on that one either. It's a lot like the cosmic battles that always are thrown around. I have no real interest in these unmeasurable hierarchies.
Originally posted by Alfheim
If Frank can give DD that much trouble Chi is only beating Frank 6/10 or even 5/10. .
So what was the value in even bringing any of this back up. We agree that frank is good but not as good as top tier fighters. We agree that he would put up a good fight against Chi, and we agree chi would eventually take a majority.
Are you really that interested in the difference between 5-6/10 and 7-8/10?
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Sigh...here we go.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Okay, capt. Let's just say we follow that logic. According to what you say, DD's win over Logan was PIS,
Originally posted by Metalmanx
but Logan's win over DD was not. Of course. 🙄
Originally posted by Metalmanx
How come I cannot just declare that Logan's win over DD was PIS? I mean, all you used was the fact that Ennis wrote it. So what?
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Who wrote the Logan win over DD? Perhaps he screwed something up, eh?
Originally posted by Metalmanx
All I'm saying is that just declaring something to be PIS SOLELY because of a specific is pretty lame.
Originally posted by Soljer
....It was somewhat stupid and induced by plot because Wolverine has taken much tougher shots to the exact same area with no ill effect.That win over Wolverine, written by a writer who's name can easily be breathed in the same sentence as Hudlin's, WAS PIS, MetalMan. Most of the forum has already agreed on that count, 😬.
Originally posted by capt it up
I guess so.Yes because Logan was taken out by a shot that has never once worked on him before and even in the same arch he had healed from far worse with far less trouble.
No because there was nothing PIS about it. It was not like DD did some thing he would not or as if Logan was doing something he could not. A fight between the two would last longer on average however what happen was not out of wolverine level to do.
No what I used as the fact that Logan has never once gone down to damage such as that and has taken damage far greater in the same area and kept fighting. I have prove it to be PIS.
I don’t know who the writer was and it was not out of wolverines ability to do, however Logan being put down by a neck jabb when more damaging hits to the same area have done nothing to him just prove that the ennis issue was PIS. There was no such instances in the fight were Logan takes DD out by putting him in a full nelson.
Again you miss the argument completely. It is PIS because the hit would have doen nothing it has been proven time and time again that more damaging shots to the same area have never put logan down. That fact that a jab did is prove enough that it was PIS. Not to mention in the same issue Logan healed form far worse in less time. Not to mention in the same arch Logan put Spiderman down in 5 pannels.
No, you missed the argument completely. I'm not even arguing that the DD win over Logan was not PIS. I agree that Logan should not have gone down to just ONE shot from DD.
What I'm arguing is the fact that you're just dismissing it easily, while when Wolverine wins against DD, it's 100% accurate, regardless of what happens.
Can't I argue that Wolverine able to put DD in a full-nelson as fast as he did, or really at all for that matter, is PIS? It greatly contradicts DD's abilities to be incapacitated so quickly by someone of Wolverine's calibur.
In fact, sure. That's what I'm arguing.
And then there's the whole Typhoid Mary thing, in which she was definitely affecting Daredevil to the point where he's not totally 100% there with reality. That's a major plot device in Wolverine's favor. And yet, I don't hear you admitting that Wolverine had a big advantage in that fight. No, you just say he out-fought Daredevil as easy as cake.
You honestly don't see the problem here?
Originally posted by Metalmanx
No, you missed the argument completely. I'm not even arguing that the DD win over Logan was not PIS. I agree that Logan should not have gone down to just ONE shot from DD.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
What I'm arguing is the fact that you're just dismissing it easily, while when Wolverine wins against DD, it's 100% accurate, regardless of what happens.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Can't I argue that Wolverine able to put DD in a full-nelson as fast as he did, or really at all for that matter, is PIS? It greatly contradicts DD's abilities to be incapacitated so quickly by someone of Wolverine's calibur.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
And then there's the whole Typhoid Mary thing, in which she was definitely affecting Daredevil to the point where he's not totally 100% there with reality.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
That's a major plot device in Wolverine's favor.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
And yet, I don't hear you admitting that Wolverine had a big advantage in that fight. No, you just say he out-fought Daredevil as easy as cake.You honestly don't see the problem here?
