Originally posted by Rutog98
Your interpretation is incorrect of what CC stated. Jean's compassion is what held Phoenix's powers in check. Hence, while that was in place, she was overpowered by characters like Proteus and Magneto. When DP devoured the star, etc, Jean's restraint was nowhere to be seen to restrain the powers. Ororo's morality and compassion is also what keeps her powers in check. When she tried to calm that storm, the things that kept her powers in check were certainly coming into play.
I just wanted to add to this and did a seperate post in case you are responding to this now and miss the edit:
This issue is not an isolated this. Claremont had Storm do things like summon the full power of millions of stars. She has created clothing out of thin air, etc. Its even canon that her powers are limited by the force of her will and strength of her body and that she has the potential to transcend humanity and evolve into a true goddess which means she can transcend the body limitation leaving her limited only to her imagination. It is very clear that the lady's potential is where I assert as its all coming straight from canon.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Your interpretation is incorrect of what CC stated. Jean's compassion is what held Phoenix's powers in check. Hence, while that was in place, she was overpowered by characters like Proteus and Magneto. When DP devoured the star, etc, Jean's restraint was nowhere to be seen to restrain the powers. Ororo's morality and compassion is also what keeps her powers in check. When she tried to calm that storm, the things that kept her powers in check were certainly coming into play.
When she devoured a Star she was no more Phoenix but Dark Phoenix.
I'll post it again shall I? And see what everyone else makes of it?
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29753499vg9.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8969/12250765hi1.jpg
"We had originally envisioned that she had a power level that was equavilent to Storm's and that the saving of the Universe(Eg Neutron Galaxy) was a one time only stunt, that it was Jean achieving her full potential for that moment"
"Possibly because she was in the M'Kraan Crystal at the time"
"Yes, and she was drawing on the other X-Men for help".
So when Phoenix was getting spanked by enemies like Magneto and Proteus she was on Storms level.
However that's only how they originally envisioned her...things changed when she became the Dark Phoenix.
Originally posted by Rutog98
I just wanted to add to this and did a seperate post in case you are responding to this now and miss the edit:This issue is not an isolated this. Claremont had Storm do things like summon the full power of millions of stars. She has created clothing out of thin air, etc. Its even canon that her powers are limited by the force of her will and strength of her body and that she has the potential to transcend humanity and evolve into a true goddess which means she can transcend the body limitation leaving her limited only to her imagination. It is very clear that the lady's potential is where I assert as its all coming straight from canon.
Magneto commands one of the fundamental forces of the Universe. So does Graviton. So does Halflife and so does Quantum. Does that mean they are on par with the Phoenix? Of course not...that's their powers. Selene was worshipped as a Goddess it does not mean she is on par with the Phoenix. All this is your speculation when we have Claremont say the Phoenix was originally brought down to Storms power levels for that particular period in time
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So presently Storm does not actually have access to that kind of power?
She does, but she holds it in check. The only person keeping her from accessing that power is herself because of self-restraint. There was nothing in that issue that boosted her powers. Magneto has always required machine or drug enhancements or artificial tampering with the EM fields to do big things.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
When she devoured a Star she was no more Phoenix but Dark Phoenix.I'll post it again shall I? And see what everyone else makes of it?
http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29753499vg9.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8969/12250765hi1.jpg"We had originally envisioned that she had a power level that was equavilent to Storm's and that the saving of the Universe(Eg Neutron Galaxy) was a one time only stunt, that it was Jean achieving her full potential for that moment"
"Possibly because she was in the M'Kraan Crystal at the time"
"Yes, and she was drawing on the other X-Men for help".
So when Phoenix was getting spanked by enemies like Magneto and Proteus she was on Storms level.
However that's only how they originally envisioned her...things changed when she became the Dark Phoenix.
In the issue where Magneto spanked her, Storm overpowered him. He stated the only reason he won was because she held back at the last instant.
Yes, she was Dark Phoenix when she devoured that one star. Storm summoned the full power of millions of stars. What's your point?
Originally posted by Rutog98
She does, but she holds it in check. The only person keeping her from accessing that power is herself because of self-restraint. There was nothing in that issue that boosted her powers.
The power is safely locked away.
She doesn't have access to it.
Its completely out of character for he to even try accessing all of her potential power.
She's going to lose to Magneto on KMC sorry 😬
When I get some time, I am going to get into that Thor vs. Elemental thread. Storm is the biggest problem for Thor. If you read the Official Handbook, you will see in Uncanny 146 when the "Storm statue" was glowing, that was Storm absorbing energy from those storms and triggering her evolution into Rougestorm. Thor creates a storm and hits Ororo with elemental powers, she can absorb it and grow stronger. If we give Storm her full range of power and ignore PIS, Thor's elemental powers cannot even hurt Ororo as she is immune to the weather. She cannot be directly harmed by any of its manifestations. This is canon.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The power is safely locked away.
She doesn't have access to it.
Its completely out of character for he to even try accessing all of her potential power.She's going to lose to Magneto on KMC sorry 😬
She's going to kill Magneto. She was nowhere near those levels when she nearly beat him circa Uncanny 114. He stated himself that she would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Ororo flat out overpowered him and held back only because if she had somehow lost control of her attack, she would have killed him. In Uncanny 150, we see her winds alone place a very great strain on his powers to resist them. If she had added raw lightning or hail to the wind attack, he would have been toast. They have not exchanged blows since then.
Originally posted by Rutog98
In the issue where Magneto spanked her, Storm overpowered him. He stated the only reason he won was because she held back at the last instant.Yes, she was Dark Phoenix when she devoured that one star. Storm summoned the full power of millions of stars. What's your point?
You talking about the incident where she actually makes him stronger with her blizzard?
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9628/stormandthegalaticcore29bc.jpg
She channeled it's energies for the briefest of moments and died. And again if I was to overlook the fact that it's speculative to assume it's the FULL power of the Galactic Core it's rather pointless...because there's no Galactic Core near Earth and even if there was it would kill Storm so I have no idea what you're trying to prove. The feat killed her it's no way as impressive as consuming the energy of a star. Because A.) You can't prove that it was the full power of Each Star in the Galactic Core B.) It lasted the briefest of moments and C.) It killed her. DP consumed a star Storm may have channeled some of the energies of the Galactic Core...but it was for the briefest of moments and it killed her.
You were trying to compare Storms power levels to Phoenix's. My point about DP was that Jeans power levels jumped during this transition. She was not stuck at Storms power level anymore.
Secondly Storm is not immune to her weather phenemona...she can manipulate her winds so that they don't harm her and so that rain falls on everything but her but that does not equate to immunity. She's supposed to be immune to temperature but even then that's a bit iffy. She's been hurt by her lightning on 3 occassions that come to mind...all written by Claremont. And before you yell PIS...it's happened 3 times.(Twice involving Magneto, and Once where she shocked herself) Storms Galactic Core feat was a once off job which killed her and lasted for the briefest of moments.
What we have established is Magnetos Reflexes are Superior. 14.5 times superior to be exact. He kills Storm before she can process a thought let alone a subconscious thought.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9628/stormandthegalaticcore29bc.jpgShe channeled it's energies for the briefest of moments and died. And again if I was to overlook the fact that it's speculative to assume it's the FULL power of the Galactic Core it's rather pointless...because there's no Galactic Core near Earth and even if there was it would kill Storm so I have no idea what you're trying to prove. The feat killed her it's no way as impressive as consuming the energy of a star. Because A.) You can't prove that it was the full power of Each Star in the Galactic Core B.) It lasted the briefest of moments and C.) It killed her. DP consumed a star Storm may have channeled some of the energies of the Galactic Core...but it was for the briefest of moments and it killed her.
You were trying to compare Storms power levels to Phoenix's. My point about DP was that Jeans power levels jumped during this tansition. She was not stuck at Storms power level anymore.
Secondly Storm is not immune to her weather phenemona...she can manipulate her winds so that they don't harm her and so that rain falls on everything but her but that does not equate to immunity. She's supposed to be immune to temperature but even then that's a bit iffy. She's been hurt by her lightning on 3 occassions that come to mind...all written by Claremont. And before you yell PIS...it's happened 3 times. Storms Galactic Core feat was a once off job which killed her and lasted for the briefest of moments.
Likewise Rougestorm's powers jumped. Phoenix and Storm were equal. DP and Rougestorm were equal. Heck, if you read that scan I did to Symmetrical's post, it states very plainly that Storm had evolved beyond all comprehension. Should I repost it here?
As far as the Galactic core thing, I was SOOOO hoping that you brought that up. Your interpretation is wrong. You should read the whole saga instead of one issue so that you get a good understanding of everything. First off, Storm did not summon the full power of the core and just die. What was killing her was the fact that the stunt destroyed her ship and left her in deep space unprotected. Hence, in the last moments in her life, as stated in the following issue where it shows her floating out in space and the Acanti finding her, the Acanti found her. Also, read the Official Handbook entry of Ororo that just came out. It mentions this incident. It was established between 158 and 162 that Storm can only survive a few minutes out in space unprotected.
Uncanny 165 defined a galactic core as a relatively small area of space crammed with millions of stars. It further states that Storm summoned the FULL POWER of the core. Furthermore, in the official Handbook, it states that she channelled all of the steller energy. Why are you so desperate?
We have no idea what Rougestorm could have been capable of as Ororo reigned herself in before we could really see it all. What we do know, however, was the potential power was there to put her on DP potential. That was blatantly obvious. The near-infinite power comment, the comment about her now knowing how Jean felt as Phoenix to be tempted by all of that power, Claremont even goes so far to call Storm's power a song within her. This is the exact thing he used for Phoenix. The exact same phrases.
You cannot win this. In order to do so, you have to twist what was so obviously stated.
Originally posted by Rutog98
Likewise Rougestorm's powers jumped. Phoenix and Storm were equal. DP and Rougestorm were equal.
Firstly I'll just post these to back up my previous post..I'll get the Sage one later:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4476/story1page04newea8.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4638/magbettercontroloflightingthen.jpg
I have proof staring you in the face...Storm is not equal to the Phoenix. See the scan on the previous page for further notice. Roguestorm is your own speculation see Claremonts views on the topic on the previous page.
As far as the Galactic core thing, I was SOOOO hoping that you brought that up. Your interpretation is wrong. You should read the whole saga instead of one issue so that you get a good understanding of everything. First off, Storm did not summon the full power of the core and just die. What was killing her was the fact that the stunt destroyed her ship and left her in deep space unprotected. Hence, in the last moments in her life, as stated in the following issue where it shows her floating out in space and the Acanti finding her, the Acanti found her. Also, read the Official Handbook entry of Ororo that just came out. It mentions this incident. It was established between 158 and 162 that Storm can only survive a few minutes out in space unprotected.Uncanny 165 defined a galactic core as a relatively small area of space crammed with millions of stars. It further states that Storm summoned the FULL POWER of the core. Furthermore, in the official Handbook, it states that she channelled all of the steller energy. Why are you so desperate?
It does not state "FULL POWER" in UXM #165.
I just looked at the new handbook and it says "Channeling all of the surrounding stellar energy into herself". I'd normally concede to the point due to the fact that if I combine the comic and the handbook and took both pieces of text as if the same writer wrote it... I'll get your explanation. However the Handbook also solidifies my interpretation. The handbook says it's the surrounding stellar energy which leads me to believe that she only manipulated the stellar energies emmited by the stars which reached into a certain radius around her.
Here me out. The comic says she summoned the power of the entire core...but if we go by your interpretation then all that energy she channeled was only enough to make her shine like a single star. Meaning by channeling the power of 1million stars she's able to make herself light up like one star.. which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the fact that if she did channel ALL the energy of the millions of Suns in the Galactic Core into herself...then there'd be no more Galactic Core as she would have sucked all the energy from all the stars. However we know all the stars still existed after she performed this feat. Meaning she only summoned the stellar energies that reached her. Which would be enough to make her shine like a single star for the briefest of moments. And everything makes sense again.
Now if you could give me a coherent explanation as to why the Suns in the Galactic Core still exist then I'll concede to this particular point. Otherwise my interpretation still stands with both the Comic and the Handbook. A.) The stars existed after she channeled all the surrounding stellar energy. B.) She made herself light up like a single star for the briefest of moments.
Either way...she channeled it for the briefest of moments and died. See below for the rest.
Granted Ororo can only survive a few minutes in space but it says nothing like that in UXM #166. THe Acanti found her right after that Galactic Core incident right in the nick of time and it's healing properties restored her body and the psychic rapport held onto her mind. Channelling the Galactic Cores energy for all we know could have damaged it, it's up to interpretation and therefore speculation on your part.
We have no idea what Rougestorm could have been capable of as Ororo reigned herself in before we could really see it all. What we do know, however, was the potential power was there to put her on DP potential. That was blatantly obvious. The near-infinite power comment, the comment about her now knowing how Jean felt as Phoenix to be tempted by all of that power, Claremont even goes so far to call Storm's power a song within her. This is the exact thing he used for Phoenix. The exact same phrases.You cannot win this. In order to do so, you have to twist what was so obviously stated. [/B]
I have Claremont's interview on the previous page read it accept their truth or live in denial like I said...I'm not going to bother to convince you about this.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Phoenix Jean originally wasn't meant to be cosmic level, it's actually the other way round..she was intially meant to be on Storms level and the Neutron Galaxy thing was a once off feat which was only made possible due to unique circumstances. i.e. With the help of the other X-Men and being inside the M'Kraan Crystal.
Therefore Storm was never supposed to be on the power level of todays Phoenix the Phoenix was supposed to be brought down to the power level of Storm.
I was so close to deducing this mix-up too.
i started reading this and couldnt even get to the second page without saying something to you bunch of loners; exodus cloak, semmetric chaos and whoever the hell else was there talking shit. storm has bested magnetos old wrinkled ass before, she didnt kill him because she held back. magneto doesnt allow her the opertunity to get that far anymore.
oh i see yaw like old men too, hey maybe he'll shove a metal pipe up you and call you his lil' beotch.
