Originally posted by 2damnloud
EasyIt comes from her deep link and connection with the elements. That's why her powers require great emotional control. They are subconscious. An angry thought can **** things up for EVERYONE, even if she doesn't want them to. This can also tie into her will power. She has to have great control over her thoughts.
The weather heeds her call.
Storms powers may work AS she thinks them. Before she can become totally conscious of what she is doing, it can manifest. She has control and is in touh with herself to the point where she can control it.
It's freaky and hard to explain.
It comes from her deep link to the elements.
Ok, cool, that actually makes sense.
In the future, something like "Storm's connection to the elements works at a subconscious level. Because of this, her powers are able to begin manifesting any necessary changes before she becomes consciously aware that she needs these changes to occur, basically working on a complex reflexive level. Because of this, she is able to use her abilities as fast (or faster) than person X".
Now, in the case of Magneto i don't think it holds, since his brain works so much faster, and the time saved on Storms may be no more than 200-300ms...
In a fight where the winner will be solved by a "fastest draw in the west" type of deal, this might be enough to tip the scales in favor of storm.
Originally posted by Board Walker
I give kudos to Rutog for his argument in favor of Storm, nicely supported.But if we go by Magneto's top showings, he has done cosmic level feats as well, such as creating worm holes, bending time and space, and becoming pure cosmic energy (when he went to destroy the Shiar empire)
Thanks for the compliments. In regards to the time thing, was that during the Morrison run? If so, that was Xorneto on kick which is a drug that boosts his powers.
In regards to the Shi'ar thing, that was a future story arc. Magneto is not that powerful now. However, the arc you bring up does give some insight into his potential!
Originally posted by inamilist
Ok, cool, that actually makes sense.In the future, something like "Storm's connection to the elements works at a subconscious level. Because of this, her powers are able to begin manifesting any necessary changes before she becomes consciously aware that she needs these changes to occur, basically working on a complex reflexive level. Because of this, she is able to use her abilities as fast (or faster) than person X".
Now, in the case of Magneto i don't think it holds, since his brain works so much faster, and the time saved on Storms may be no more than 200-300ms...
In a fight where the winner will be solved by a "fastest draw in the west" type of deal, this might be enough to tip the scales in favor of storm.
Well, I don't think his powers do work faster than Ororo's. In the "Invasion" arc of X-Treme, it states that Ororo can perceive the electrons moving in her opponent's body which gives her an advantage in any fight. The issue stated all of this. Those electrons are travelling about 90,000 miles per second and only have the short distance to travel up to the size of a human body. For Storm to have an advantage over an opponent because of her sights as the issue stated, that means she has to have accelerated action as well. Hence, she has been able to access her powers faster than other characters like Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Sauron, etc in canon. She has also done things like summon and control hurricanes with "less than a conscious thought."
Originally posted by Rutog98
Well, I don't think his powers do work faster than Ororo's. In the "Invasion" arc of X-Treme, it states that Ororo can perceive the electrons moving in her opponent's body which gives her an advantage in any fight. The issue stated all of this. Those electrons are travelling about 90,000 miles per second and only have the short distance to travel up to the size of a human body. For Storm to have an advantage over an opponent because of her sights as the issue stated, that means she has to have accelerated action as well.
For storm to have the ability to see electrons she would need much more than simply enhanced processing speed.
Not to mention the fact that there are trillions of electrons which are all constantly moving in a person's body. Add to that, electrons play no part in the communication between nerve cells or neurons, so watching them would give no advantage to Storm in determining the next move of her opponent.
Now, if Storm were measuring the electrical currents in the person's body (not electrons) then it is at least plausible. However, to differentiate between the electrical signal of her opponent's executed movement and the general electrical activity of reflexes and other things should be impossible.
Given impossible happens in comics all the time, if we assume that Storm is reading the specific electrical signals from the person's brain to their muscles, and is able to therefore plan her actions in anticipation to theirs, her mind is working at least twice as fast as a normal person's, though it is likely much faster.
However, I believe none of this. One time feats are terrible arguing positions, not to mention that I have not seen the feat in question. Generally, I'd expect you to name at least 2-3 other times in her illustrious 30+ year career where she has an on panel description of her either 1) reading people's future actions through electrical energy or 2) someone on panel saying "Storm's brain works at least twice as fast as a normal person's".
Originally posted by Rutog98
Hence, she has been able to access her powers faster than other characters like Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Sauron, etc in canon.
These are good showings, but when dealing with something as specific as neural processing there needs to be a more specific reference. There is no reason to believe her win over these people is due to her neural processing speed vs some other explanation.
Originally posted by Rutog98
She has also done things like summon and control hurricanes with "less than a conscious thought."
yes, subconscious thought could be colloquially referred to as being "less than conscious thought" (considering most people still look to Freud for their explanations of consciousness). Her powers being tied to her subconscious vs her conscious may provide some benefit to the speed of activating her powers (this is skeptical now that I think of it more...) it doesn't indicate that she is thinking any faster.
Originally posted by inamilist
For storm to have the ability to see electrons she would need much more than simply enhanced processing speed.Not to mention the fact that there are trillions of electrons which are all constantly moving in a person's body. Add to that, electrons play no part in the communication between nerve cells or neurons, so watching them would give no advantage to Storm in determining the next move of her opponent.
Now, if Storm were measuring the electrical currents in the person's body (not electrons) then it is at least plausible. However, to differentiate between the electrical signal of her opponent's executed movement and the general electrical activity of reflexes and other things should be impossible.
Given impossible happens in comics all the time, if we assume that Storm is reading the specific electrical signals from the person's brain to their muscles, and is able to therefore plan her actions in anticipation to theirs, her mind is working at least twice as fast as a normal person's, though it is likely much faster.
However, I believe none of this. One time feats are terrible arguing positions, not to mention that I have not seen the feat in question. Generally, I'd expect you to name at least 2-3 other times in her illustrious 30+ year career where she has an on panel description of her either 1) reading people's future actions through electrical energy or 2) someone on panel saying "Storm's brain works at least twice as fast as a normal person's".
These are good showings, but when dealing with something as specific as neural processing there needs to be a more specific reference. There is no reason to believe her win over these people is due to her neural processing speed vs some other explanation.
yes, subconscious thought could be colloquially referred to as being "less than conscious thought" (considering most people still look to Freud for their explanations of consciousness). Her powers being tied to her subconscious vs her conscious may provide some benefit to the speed of activating her powers (this is skeptical now that I think of it more...) it doesn't indicate that she is thinking any faster.
The lady is one with the planet. I don't think a few trillion electrons are going to be much for her. Here are some scans for you:
Storm has to shift her sight from normal perception to perceiving energy patterns it's not always on.
http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=energyworld42xc.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7905/energyworld57hb.jpg
Magneto is able to shift his vision it doesn't mean he perceives things at 90 000mph, it's a comic a *Wizard did it* just like how Magneto controls non-ferric metal, how Storm can only seem to make clothes out of thin air. How her breathing alters when she flies.
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen1909lm4.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm212page125uq.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm212page132oz.jpg
This is what allows him to see things 14.5 faster then than a normal person.
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2830/xmenunlimted0023839mw8.jpg
Storms doesn't have anything like that. Storms reflexes are human or normal mutant. She doesn't have super reflexes she doesn't have anything to show that she has. Even that Candra mind controlling Cyclops doesn't show this. Anything otherwise is vast specuation.
Here's a comparison of reflexes:
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenunlimited3912qj0.jpg
Magneto is also always connected to his enviroment:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2381/wca057184hm.jpg
Speaking of a Northstar speedblitz and dodging lasers:
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1577/magneto3hz4.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/X-Men113-04.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/X-Men113-05.jpg
Magneto just gives her a stroke before she can do anything his range is incredible:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hrpage171fq.jpg
Or just dumps her in a worm hole
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5595/excalibur0825xx4.jpg
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen1909lm4.jpg
Storm and Magneto would be a great fight. They are very comparable to each other.
So, Magnetos means of beating storm are chalked up to:
Hemoglobin
Wormwhole
I still think Storm nowadays can find away to hamper his electromagnetic feilds since she can shaped electrons as to make Ball-lightning, clothing outta thin air etc. I think her showings show her body compensating for MORE energy than magneto can enact at a given time.--Glactic core, continental-sized storm etc
Magnetising her hemoglobin shouldn't work on her, just as her lightning doesn't wok on him. He has mastery of the EM spectrum is the likely answer for this. But, does that really negate her mastery of the elements??? Most would say yes....but I mean really though??
What really doesn't help in this argument is the few times they've squared off, he's basically OWNED her for stupid ass reasons.
We can't ignore the fact that if Storm was the type of character that didn't care, Magneto, master of Magnetism, would've been DEAD a LOONG time ago. EASY
Originally posted by Rutog98
The lady is one with the planet. I don't think a few trillion electrons are going to be much for her. Here are some scans for you:[B][b]Energy World
thank you for the scans it really helps with your points.
Still Storm gets owned all the time by people much much much less powerful then mags. In the x-tream x-men arc right before the one you stated she was getting owned all the time by just people in high tech suits (no where near ironman level) and so so many other times , there was one time Sauron (how ever that stupid pteradactle thing is spelled) shot her with just a normal gun. Like from a distance right in front of her.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Storm has to shift her sight from normal perception to perceiving energy patterns it's not always on.http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=energyworld42xc.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7905/energyworld57hb.jpgMagneto is able to shift his vision it doesn't mean he perceives things at 90 000mph, it's a comic a *Wizard did it* just like how Magneto controls non-ferric metal, how Storm can only seem to make clothes out of thin air. How her breathing alters when she flies.
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen1909lm4.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm212page125uq.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm212page132oz.jpgThis is what allows him to see things 14.5 faster then than a normal person.
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2830/xmenunlimted0023839mw8.jpgStorms doesn't have anything like that. Storms reflexes are human or normal mutant. She doesn't have super reflexes she doesn't have anything to show that she has. Even that Candra mind controlling Cyclops doesn't show this. Anything otherwise is vast specuation.
Here's a comparison of reflexes:
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenunlimited3912qj0.jpgMagneto is also always connected to his enviroment:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2381/wca057184hm.jpgSpeaking of a Northstar speedblitz and dodging lasers:
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1577/magneto3hz4.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/X-Men113-04.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/X-Men113-05.jpgMagneto just gives her a stroke before she can do anything his range is incredible:
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hrpage171fq.jpg
Or just dumps her in a worm hole
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5595/excalibur0825xx4.jpg
I don't know how I missed these scans in the mags respect thread.
the one of north star would have helped in the superman vs. mags thread. I love how cool North star was about letting that team member die
Originally posted by Rutog98
The lady is one with the planet. I don't think a few trillion electrons are going to be much for her. Here are some scans for you:
ok, but I think you missed my point. Watching electrons in a human will do nothing.
Achually, now that I think about it, we all can "see" electrons. All matter has them, we just cannot see with enough detail to observe them individually. If Storm could see electrons, the world would look much different to her. All objects made of matter would appear to be countless sub atomic particles interacting with eachother. It would be almost impossible for her to distinguish between one piece of matter and another, let alone recognize a human or their face.
Also, electron, though it does start will "electr" has little if anything to do with electricity. Electricity is part of the EM spectrum, electrons are matter. get it? energy, matter?
Originally posted by Rutog98
[B][B][b]Energy World
Ok. This is cool. It makes me wonder why storm bothers with wind and rain if she can channel all forms of ambient energy....
However, this does nothing to proove that she can see an electron, which is a useless power anyways. Nor does it proove any advanced processing.
Another question is: Can you find 3 other places where Storm has "shifted" into the energy world?
Originally posted by Rutog98
[b]Part Two
well...
nothing about being able to control electrons. An interesting note, we have all been assuming that lightning is created by a flow of electrons... I think it would do us all some help if we all checked out the Wiki page for lightning. There are many thoughts about the origin of lightning, they didnt seem to directly implicate electrons.
Remember, electrons are not energy. The writer of this comic was clearly not using accurate sources for whatever he was basing his info on.
The same can be said for the analogy of following nerves like a powerline. In a very strict bio-psychological sense, the writer does not know what he is talking about.
The unfortunate result on both counts are cannonical references that are pretty much nonsensical. I won't say Storm doesn't have those powers, because in THIS fight I think its meaningless (you are still really underestimating magneto) but if it ever comes up where it would make the difference, I would definatly say they are not admisable
Also: If I assume that this isn't the initial reference to storm being able to see the electrical activity in a person's body, so that would give you 2. Show a scan of a fight with Storm saying something like "I'm too fast for you because I can see the moves you are going to make"
Originally posted by inamilist
Ok. This is cool. It makes me wonder why storm bothers with wind and rain if she can channel all forms of ambient energy....
I really can't think of any regular feats she does that requires focusing obscene amounts of power in one area but controlling the weather would take tons of concentration and/or control.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I still think it's because she has crazy intricate control over a large area but poor... focus would be the word for it?I really can't think of any regular feats she does that requires focusing obscene amounts of power in one area but controlling the weather would take tons of concentration and/or control.
I totally agree with you
and from what I've seen in the scans, that is what is being implied.
I was being a little bit snarky 🙂
😆 @ people racking their brains to de-power storm.😆
If storm can't see electrons because their's sooo many, then Magneto can't munipulate hemoglobin beacuase it's has NOTHING to do with the EM spectrum.😆
The movement of charged particles creates an attractive force. Charged particels move BECAUSE of attractive forces(not neccesarily magnetism) hence electromagnetism and electricity are interrlated.
Lighting IS the movement of charged PARTICLES(electrons) which inturn create an electromagnetic feild HENCE magneto can control her lightining. Screw what Wikipedia says. No matter what the theories are we know that electrons are involved(charged particles)
Magnetism can also be brought about by orbital spins of electrons spining in the same direction(or something)😕
Now can Storm preceive and control the SPIN of electrons??? I dunno
Magneto also under untilizes his control over the EM spectrum(sounds good huh). He makes combs when she should be making GALAXIES since it is a fundemental force of the Universe.
Since he hasn't Made/ remade a galaxy, does that mean I negate his power??? NO. That would be foolish logic and I would be grasping at STRAWS.
Storm also can make Oxygen within Water in her immediate vicinity using electrolysis by seperating Hydrogen and oxygen molecules without electrecuting other X-men.
The scan says she can shape them to her will which allows her to create lightining. This has been expnaded to her creating clothing from nothing as we have seen or munipulating the Glactic core or Solar winds(continuity continuity continuity).
In the future, she may do MORE. As of now, Cannon says she can see the flow of Electrons and bend them to her will. POINT, BLANK, PERIOD.
Whether you think she should be doing more "creative things" is irrelevant and strawman argument
Originally posted by 2damnloud
😆 @ people racking their brains to de-power storm.😆If storm can't see electrons because their's sooo many, then Magneto can't munipulate hemoglobin beacuase it's has NOTHING to do with the EM spectrum.😆
The movement of charged particles creates an attractive force. Charged particels move BECAUSE of attractive forces(not neccesarily magnetism) hence electromagnetism and electricity are interrlated.
Lighting IS the movement of charged PARTICLES(electrons) which inturn create an electromagnetic feild HENCE magneto can control her lightining. Screw what Wikipedia says. No matter what the theories are we know that electrons are involved(charged particles)
Magnetism can also be brought about by orbital spins of electrons spining in the same direction(or something)😕
Now can Storm preceive and control the SPIN of electrons??? I dunno
Magneto also under untilizes his control over the EM spectrum(sounds good huh). He makes combs when she should be making GLAXIES since it is a fundemental force of the Universe.
Since he hasn't Made/ remade a galaxy, does that mean I negate his power??? NO. That would be foolish logic and I would be grasping at STRAWS.
Storm also can make Oxygen within Water in her immediate vicinity using electrolysis by seperating Hydrogen and oxygen molecules without electrecuting other X-men.
The scan says she can shape them to her will which allows her to create lightining. This has been expnaded to her creating clothing from nothing as we have seen or munipulating the Glactic core or Solar winds(continuity continuity continuity).
In the future, she may do MORE. As of now, Cannon says she can see the flow of Electrons and bend them to her will. POINT, BLANK, PERIOD.
Whether you think she should be doing more "creative things" is irrelevant and strawman argument
my point is generally that electrons don't flow. electricity does. They are not the same thing.
Control of electricity is differant than control of electrons, one lets you make lightning and electrolsys, the other lets you rearrange the sub atomic structure of matter.
Also, I have said nothing about Magneto making matter.
Aside: an interesting note, the manipulation of air to clothing is probably better explained by the manipulation of the electromagnetic forces between the particles, rather than electron manipulation. Electron manipulation would just change the charge or the air particles.
I may need to consider this further, you may have achually sold me on electron manipulation to some degree, but the writers dont seem to understand what an electron is...
