Originally posted by Kaldorei
😕 [b]Then I have missunderstood it. I also read the doctorine of some bible researcher. It was from that doctorine I based that statement. If you hold, I will get it [/B]
Originally posted by Kaldorei
[b]http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.show/CT/BS/k/511http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/About.bio/ID/13
The final thread is the authors biography. [/B]
These do not support the concept:
Originally posted by KaldoreiYou must have misunderstood what you read. The paper states that Satan led one-third the angels of Heaven against God, this implies the angels chose to follow him.
[b]God gave [u]one angel and one angel only[u], the power of temptation and the absolute free will and power to choose between good and evil.
The angel was named Lucifer. I am sure you know the rest of the story 😉 [/B]
Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants."The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."
I say that the Devil does not exist, and my proof is the lack of evidence for his existence.
Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants."The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."
The second greatest trick is you making up that load of crap rolleyes1
Why the Hell does Lucifer mean 'Beam of Light' or something? I know there's light in there somewhere.
The Devil must have good in him. No one can fall that far and learn nothing for it.
Originally posted by King Nothing
The Devil is real, IDK about how he came to be in the bible as being fact but, this is exactly what it wants."The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."
Gods is that quote overused. And it has essentially become one of those cover all quotes some people use in religious argument when they have not a single firm fact to contribute.
"Of course there is no proof of the devil" the debater will say with a self satisfied grin "The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."
To which I reply: "Yes, because it makes far more sense to think a lack of any proof at all is actual proof that the devil exists and is just tricking us into thinking there is no proof he exists. Someone less wise and without access to a big book of quotes might just believe, you know, that maybe the devil doesn't actually exist. At all."
It is as bad as "the Lord works in mysterious ways" - when something good happens of course God is real and of cause responsible for all and sundry. When something bad happens or there is no proof at all it is "he works in mysterious ways."
Really, it is no way to debate.
Angels are Like Humans, only with super powers, and no sex drive, and immortal,
with that said, Lucifer wanted something that he couldnt attain. To be come a god.
But God said. You dont know how to be god cuz i looked into it.
Lucifer said Fuk you I'm rebelling against you.
God said Fuk you too, now your banished. Go to hell.
Re: The Devil makes no sense!
Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!
I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.
Even angels have free will ermm
Originally posted by Smiter
Angels are Like Humans, only with super powers, and no sex drive, and immortal,with that said, Lucifer wanted something that he couldnt attain. To be come a god.
But God said. You dont know how to be god cuz i looked into it.
Lucifer said Fuk you I'm rebelling against you.
God said Fuk you too, now your banished. Go to hell.
I have greater sympathy for the Devil in those versions of the story.
Maybe it is just the concept people have the right to aspire, and more importantly have a chance to suceed. Maybe it is the fact he aspired to something were as God... well, he doesn't seem to aspire or have dreams or anything. Just some plan. I have little love for a Godly concept that so often comes of as some sort of ill humored tyrant who never the less love us to bits, even when he is killing us, because you know, God is all good and can't be wrong. Ever.
Re: The Devil makes no sense!
Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.
But angels cannot be tempted
and are pure goddess!
They don't have the ability to be bad!!
It doesn't make sense!
I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.
Re: The Devil makes no sense!
Originally posted by BlackC@
The Devil is a fallen angel that challenged God.But angels cannot be tempted and are pure goddess! They don't have the ability to be bad!! It doesn't make sense!
I don't see how one who is so good can become so bad. It doesn't make sense. The Devil is defined as pure evil. Surely there is good in him.
Good instilled all of his creations with free will. From the highest of the cherubs to his creation of man. If he forcefully made all of his creations "Love" him, then God would not truly be loving.
Lucifer used his free will and became "evil" when he attempted to ascend above God and thus in doing this, he was acting against the "good" nature of God. If one is to believe that God is purely good by nature, then by default they should also believe that anyone who acts against him in anyway shape or form is committing some form of evil. So in essence, evil is really defined by any action one takes against God.
Satan does not think himself to be evil. He actually believes himself to be a champion of sorts of "free will" and "choice." Unfortunately, what he doesn't seem to realise is that he and those who follow him are not partaking in any form of "free will", rather, they have become slaves to another ideology or religion that goes against God as well as takes away the "free will" and "choices" from others.
This religion is called "lawlessness" and is essentially an anarchic system where everything goes, and where there are no absolute truths. People, angels(or demons), can do whatever they want under this system with out any consequence.(at least they believe that there is no consequence, until someone of greater power and authority takes this power away from them).
Lucifer and all of the angels who sided with him have a choice to be good again, but unfortunately, they have become quite adament about this philosopy, believing it to be the correct one. Lucifer believes himself to be correct in his position, which is a contradiction to his philosophy of no absoute truths existing, since he himself has stated that it is impossible for anyone to completely know the truth.
God has been merciful on Lucifer and all of his creations throughout the years, extending his grace and love to all of his creations. But at some point, this grace period will end. And all of those who act against God with no longing to repent will suffer a fate that they've created for themselves.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes, yes, we all know your myth...But according to your legend, Lucifer then is evil by default, and not by free will...so it's not his fault he is evil, it's God. God made him evil, because God made jinn out of smokeless fire., and not pure light.
(as if light is always a good thing, go near the sun and you will be destroyed)
there are muslim jinns as well now in the world
I dont believe in the hell the Bible talks about... no fire and brimstone... no evil Satan there luring you into his pit of darkness....I think we make our own hell and its my belief that Lucifer was not a 'fallen' angel... but instead is the angel sent by God to watch over the souls that have not made their way to heaven. Sorta like a keeper and protector until they see the light and make peace with the hell they made for themselves.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I say that the Devil does not exist, and my proof is the lack of evidence for his existence.
Originally posted by BlackC@
The second greatest trick is you making up that load of crap rolleyes1Why the Hell does Lucifer mean 'Beam of Light' or something? I know there's light in there somewhere.
The Devil must have good in him. No one can fall that far and learn nothing for it.
Originally posted by lord xyz
And you believe this because of what a book says?
Originally posted by Imperial_SamuraAbsence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence.
Gods is that quote overused. And it has essentially become one of those cover all quotes some people use in religious argument when they have not a single firm fact to contribute."Of course there is no proof of the devil" the debater will say with a self satisfied grin "The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing The World That He Didn't Exist."
To which I reply: "Yes, because it makes far more sense to think a lack of any proof at all is actual proof that the devil exists and is just tricking us into thinking there is no proof he exists. Someone less wise and without access to a big book of quotes might just believe, you know, that maybe the devil doesn't actually exist. At all."
It is as bad as "the Lord works in mysterious ways" - when something good happens of course God is real and of cause responsible for all and sundry. When something bad happens or there is no proof at all it is "he works in mysterious ways."
Really, it is no way to debate.
Simply put, it means that if we don't know that something exists, it doesn't mean that it doesn't; It only means we don't know one way or the other, we just haven't been made aware of it yet so it's not part of our knowledge.
If you look for "X" and don't find it, does that prove that there is no "X"? No.
I flip a coin 5 times and get "heads" every time (no "tails"😉. Is it a "heads only" coin? (...having a "head" printed on both sides.) No.