Jack, Elizabeth, the compass, and all those quotes....

Luda, despite what you may think, I do care about people, and I do think that reminding you all of the fact that Will and Elizabeth probably will end up being together is not a bad thing.

Now to set you straight on what my opinion is on Jack and Elizabeth as a ship. Unlike what you assume, I don't deny that Jack and Elizabeth have a connection. They look good on screen, they have interesting conversations, and their interactions are flirtatious. I just don't think what they have qualifies them as being the 'couple' for the next film. I think that they are great friends, possibly more than friends, but I can't ever see them being happy together.

Before you assume you know what my opinions are, maybe you ought to ask me. Savvy?

Now, to lovethemtigers question about the Chinese costume, I can't help but wonder if Elizabeth is now confused about who she thinks she really is. She's not dressed as Jack now, she's not truly dressed like a lady, although her outfit is feminine enough.

So she's on her quest to discover who she is, and in that time, she will figure out where and with whom her heart truly lies. Whether it is with Will or with Jack is the main question. Yes, I believe it is with Will, but who knows, TnT could surprise me yet. 😉

I don't think it's all about whom she chooses to be with. I think its about growing into character. Finally maturing a bit. Learning how life really is and how dangerous it could be.

^^ You misunderstand me; I didn't mean that her journey is about whom she chooses. That's only part of it. The real journey is about Elizabeth discovering who she is, and also, about either accepting who she is or changing her perception of herself. 😄 The guy is just the icing on the cake. 😄

Oh yeah^^ I agree.

Elizabeth has a long way to go. Is what they call them things...a journey of self discovery, something like that. I think out of all characters, I think Elizabeth is the hardest to predict.

Elizabeth's is the hardest to predict. We all know James is going to attempt to find redemption, Will and Jack will both be going down a darker road but will redeem themselves...

But Lizzie? Who knows? Pirate? A lady? Both? Who knows? 😉

I have some doubt she would choose to be a "lady" in the sense of going back to the way things were before COTBP. But I also think she's fed up with pirates, or at least is disillusioned with them. It must have been so hard for someone like her back then to find their place. Even though T&T say she's the best pirate of all the characters, I would say she's more of an adventurer. She's not into hurting people or stealing or committing crimes. She just wants to be free to make her own choices and do what she wants to do. I hope AWE gives her that freedom.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I have some doubt she would choose to be a "lady" in the sense of going back to the way things were before COTBP. But I also think she's fed up with pirates, or at least is disillusioned with them. It must have been so hard for someone like her back then to find their place. Even though T&T say she's the best pirate of all the characters, I would say she's more of an adventurer. She's not into hurting people or stealing or committing crimes. She just wants to be free to make her own choices and do what she wants to do. I hope AWE gives her that freedom.

I agree

I agree, willo. Im pretty sure Liz doesnt want to go back to be what's classified as a "lady" when you're a little trapped house wife trapped with an uptight society.

But she also doesn't want to "pirate" as a living. She got her adventure in DMC, and there is more to come in AWE. She will learn and is learning how harsh it is to be a pirate trying to survive all the evil out there that is after you.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I agree, willo. Im pretty sure Liz doesnt want to go back to be what's classified as a "lady" when you're a little trapped house wife trapped with an uptight society.

But she also doesn't want to "pirate" as a living. She got her adventure in DMC, and there is more to come in AWE. She will learn and is learning how harsh it is to be a pirate trying to survive all the evil out there that is after you.

Totally, spot on girl! 😄

That's why I'm kept in the dark about what will happen to her. She's not a society lady, but in a way, she's not a pirate. Oh, she has a pirate spirit which is what Jack eludes to, but I don't think she wants to actually be one. So what options are left for her, a woman in that time period? She can't really go back to normal because she's still a fugitive in Port Royal.

^^Continuing on what willo is stating--

And piracy itself is at it's end. She has pirate heart, a true lady pirate. But she knows that the time has come. And Jack knows it too. Historically talking, piracy is at its end because it's time for a new era. Piracy will never end because they are all have pirate in their heart. But, eventually, will come to realize that life at sea and plungering and running from the navy all the time is not what someone wants as a life.

So what can she do? It just seems like she's losing whatever she decides even though most would argue that she wins either way. "Let's see, Orlando or Johnny...tough call..." But look at it this way, if she chooses neither and captains her own ship, she's just become Jack. We know he's lonely and that's his one regret with the life he's chosen. She would be the same way, always alone, especially as a female pirate. If she picks Jack, yeah, she's with who we want her to be with, but they won't ever have any stability or quiet moments, and although they both love excitement, they're going to need quiet moments. And if she picks Will, her need for adventure goes almost completely unfulfilled. So it's a conundrum.

so basically who ever she chooses she is going to want more.

i think she could have the best of both worlds with jack...love, marriage and freedom...because being with the person you are in love with can bring freedom..freedom to be who you truly are....she can be a woman and a "pirate" with Jack....but I don't mean a pirate who pillages and plunders and eats really bad eggs....I'm talking about a Pirate who breaks the law or goes against society to help those in need...I've always fantasized that when Jack pillages and plunders...he actually distributes his wealth to his crew and those slaves he helped set free..he brings them food and clothing....Jack doesn't come across as a wealthy Pirate with vast treasures....so I doubt he's done much searching and finding of treasure..he'd like to...however, he did spend 10 years trying to get the Pearl back...

But Jack and Liz want the same thing: Freedom

And by that I don't mean a ship. They want their own freedom, to have a life where they could not be judged.

I wouldn't say that her love for adventure would go totally unfulfilled with Will though I admit the types of adventures she'll have with him would be perhaps a bit milder than what they'd be with Jack.

But that's a different discussion. 😉

Honestly, I could see Elizabeth going somewhere new and exciting, like the Americas. There'd be a lot of unexplored territory, and with her thirst for adventure and such wide open spaces, she'd probably find plenty of adventuring to make herself content. 😄 Oh, and she can bring along one (or all! 😄 ) of the guys too.

lmao^^i'm down with her bringing all the guys here!

I agree with lovethemtigers she can have both with Jack, freedom to do what you want and adventure! In books the girl usually has a guy she supposabley "loves" him but there is always another guy to flirt with or a guy she absolutely despise but in the end the girl usually ends up with the other guy because they have more in common and share a greater passion, that describes jack and liz. Their true hearts are like puzzle pieces when they are together it becomes one they can be who they are and not anybody else when they are around each other, it proves it in DMC. Will and her, their life is nice i mean she doesn't want to settle down and I think she will never settle down it's not her nature to. She wants advanture and freedom and Jack gives her that!

Okay, I just hope we get some sense that she is complete, not just happy, in whatever role she chooses for herself. I think that's what she really wants, to choose her own role. Jack I guess would be the most indirectly supportive of that since he's so big into freedom. I was just saying earlier that it would be hard for them to be together not because of the two of them, but just because of the nature of what they do. I can a lot of separations. Oh well. T&T will know what to do.

^^But I don't think Jack is into freedom for stealing and pirating, etc.

I think what Jack means by freedom is doing what's right and choosing your own path---and NOT to be judged.

I think that ever since Jack saw those slaves, he wanted to do what was right. The result: branded a pirate. So therefore, he decided to choose his own path. To be freed from the grasp of an uptight society.

Elizabeth is more or less in that situation.

In a way, Will is in the same boat as Jack and Elizabeth. I've really seen no indication in DMC or CotBP that he's really all that fond of society. He's been abused by society just as much as Elizabeth and Jack.

In fact, his story is beginning to mirror Jack's in that no matter what he tries to do, he either doesn't get the credit for it or he is punished in some way. I'm not saying that he's a better match for Elizabeth than Jack is, but I do feel that people do not give Will's character much thought except to complain that he's in the way of J/E. Will's journey as a character is just as important as Elizabeth and Jack's journies. 😄