Originally posted by Alliance
Its been well established that punishment is not "loving"
But what I'm saying is that the God in the bible has failings. Obviously punichment is not loving but it can be taken that God was doing those things because because he love the people of Israel.
And what about in S and M? 😛
Originally posted by AllianceWow, take some psychology courses and find out what lack of punishment means and the significance of punishment in normal cognitive, moral, and social development. Punishment is very loving when applied with pure motives.
Its been well established that punishment is not "loving"
Then you are not talking about punishment. Good that we cleared that up.
Now justice, which is what you are talking about, is different entirely. God punishs in the loving way and God is also a God of justice. Stoning is actually a swift death and was probably the most effective method of captial punishment available to the Jews. Plagues were punishment, they forced the Egyptians to undo the evil they were committing on the Jews. Fire and brimstone in relation to Sodom and Gomorrah is another thread and in terms of Hell is a misconception that was addressed in another thread.
I was using punishment as it had been previously used in the thread.
Actually, hanging is quicker than stoning. Bleeding to death is really quite quick 😖 Stoning was used because it got the community involved.
Biblical "justice" is bullchit. Their God which magically became a global god, didn't care at all about slavery elsewhere in the world. He certianly didn't do anything when it got worse and worse. (Slavery in the ancient world was tremendously more humane than in say, the 19th century).
Since we are not talking about punishment, I'm surpised that you still are. Love does not equal biblical punishment. Biased persepctive does not equal justice. Nor does hypocrisy.
Originally posted by Nellinator
God punishs in the loving way and God is also a God of justice.
Like a parent beating the hell out of his kid in a grocery store parking lot in plain view of dozens of other citizens and security cameras, all of which will be called into evidence at his child abuse hearing?
Originally posted by Nellinator
Stoning is actually a swift death and was probably the most effective method of captial punishment available to the Jews.
Come on man, that's just willful ignorance.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Plagues were punishment, they forced the Egyptians to undo the evil they were committing on the Jews.
You mean after he intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart time and again? That whole story is just Jewish propoganda to illustrate that god wanted the Egyptians to suffer because of their special relationship with god. Feel free to see the suffereing Jews thread for more of what I mean.
Originally posted by Capt_FantasticNope, that's not what I was referring to, honestly. We need to seperate justice and punishment.
Like a parent beating the hell out of his kid in a grocery store parking lot in plain view of dozens of other citizens and security cameras, all of which will be called into evidence at his child abuse hearing?Come on man, that's just willful ignorance.
You mean after he intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart time and again? That whole story is just Jewish propoganda to illustrate that god wanted the Egyptians to suffer because of their special relationship with god. Feel free to see the suffereing Jews thread for more of what I mean.
Not really, you got any better ideas for the Jews as their weapons were not typically metal, but clubs and spears, stones worked well.
Actually, you have to remember that part of the Law was to respect foreigners especially the Egyptians and treat them well because the Egyptians harboured them for a long time. The Jews wished no ill will towards the Egyptians and would ally with them more than once in the future.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nope, that's not what I was referring to, honestly. We need to seperate justice and punishment.
Feel free to seperate them for us. Since you are the resident expert, feel free to speak for god, again, and tell us the difference as illustrated in god's actions as told in the bible.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not really, you got any better ideas for the Jews as their weapons were not typically metal, but clubs and spears, stones worked well.
You really need to work on your historical timeline. I know people should have been a little more apparent in naming the history of human civilization. Terms like "stone age", "bronze age" and "iron age" are tricky to master; especially in only 6000 years.
This is not even open for debate. There are much more humane ways to execute a person. Poisons, animal venom, swords, etc.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Actually, you have to remember that part of the Law was to respect foreigners especially the Egyptians and treat them well because the Egyptians harboured them for a long time. The Jews wished no ill will towards the Egyptians and would ally with them more than once in the future.
Yeah, thanks for not addressing the point.
I already did 😉
Look up how well stoning works. And the Jews weren't as well equipped as their surrounding nations, they used clubs and spears against swords and metal armour. That's likely why they were afraid of the Canaanites and the Philistines. A bunch of escaping slaves don't usually run around well equipped with swords and whatnot.
Oh, I did, you just don't see it.
Originally posted by Nellinator
I already did 😉
Do it again.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Look up how well stoning works. And the Jews weren't as well equipped as their surrounding nations, they used clubs and spears against swords and metal armour. That's likely why they were afraid of the Canaanites and the Philistines. A bunch of escaping slaves don't usually run around well equipped with swords and whatnot.
Oh, I'm positive stoning will kill someone. That's not in question.
A bunch of "escaping slaves" (which is bullshit, your own story says they were freed by god...there's no need to escape with him on your side.) that had spent hundreds of years in an advanced society would know full well how to master the art of making copper weapons and tools. Don't even pretend you don't understand that. And you really need to get past this Cecil B. DeMille idea of what slaves were in ancient Egypt...if they were really slaves at all.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Oh, I did, you just don't see it.
I guess that's because god isn't sitting on my shoulder whispering the answers in my ear.
Nah, I'm gonna make you read, or alternatively let you give up.
Actually, I am aware it wasn't all that bad which I somewhat addressed when I mentioned the Law mentioning that the Jews should have good will on their side. And yes, they obviously could craft things, but their history suggests that they never set up mines, they had a generation of people fed by manna and likely unskilled considering that they didn't do anything but wander for 40 years, nor had the facilities for refining copper. Smelting copper isn't a simple process and the Phillistines apparently had a monopoly on iron, making them far superior in equipment to the Israelites.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Actually, you have to remember that part of the Law was to respect foreigners especially the Egyptians and treat them well because the Egyptians harboured them for a long time. The Jews wished no ill will towards the Egyptians and would ally with them more than once in the future.
Oh how perverse is history through one clouded lens.
Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.
Genesis 22:10
Why don't you read your bible for a change....and quit making up history.
Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.
Originally posted by Alliance
Oh how perverse is history through one clouded lens.Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.
Genesis 22:10
Why don't you read your bible for a change....and quit making up history.
Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.
I can only assume that you are not a firm supporter of capital punishment or any form of legal punishment with the quote above. Stonings, like other forms of punishment that we see within our judicials systems today, were used as a deterent to keep people from breaking certain laws. Simple as that.
Some might even argue that "purging the evil from among" the Israelites immediately, as oppossed to allowing it to spread - was the most loving thing God could have done.
Personally, I believe that stoning and other aspects of the Mosaic Law served their purpose for the time that they were allowed. The Law itself didn't end with Jesus, however, those who broke it were gracefully forgiven of commiting any offensses against it and offered salvation through Christ's sacrifice.
Originally posted by Thundar
I can only assume that you are not a firm supporter of capital punishment or any form of legal punishment with the quote above. Stonings, like other forms of punishment that we see within our judicials systems today, were used as a deterent to keep people from breaking certain laws. Simple as that.Some might even argue that "purging the evil from among" the Israelites immediately, as oppossed to allowing it to spread - was the most loving thing God could have done.
Personally, I believe that stoning and other aspects of the Mosaic Law served their purpose for the time that they were allowed. The Law itself didn't end with Jesus, however, those who broke it were gracefully forgiven of commiting any offensses against it and offered salvation through Christ's sacrifice.
🙄 Stoning was a way to keep revenge under control. There was no court, it was more like a lynching.
Originally posted by Alliance
Back to the stoning, did not Abraham take Issac to the mountain with a knife to kill him? Yeah. You fail.Genesis 22:10
What was the reason? God sent a sheep to be slaughtered instead.
Try to post full story next time instead of parts of a story.
Originally posted by Alliance
Stonings were used because it was important to get the community invovled in the execution and to execute as a community. The same practice is used in Islam, for the same reasons.
Originally posted by Nellinator
I already did 😉Look up how well stoning works. And the Jews weren't as well equipped as their surrounding nations, they used clubs and spears against swords and metal armour. That's likely why they were afraid of the Canaanites and the Philistines. A bunch of escaping slaves don't usually run around well equipped with swords and whatnot.
Oh, I did, you just don't see it.
I cannot beleive that you condone stoning
Are you really that sick minded ?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In Islam, stoning to death is applicable only in the case of adultry. This is a great sin in Islam as it damages the moral fabric of the society.
"moral fabric of society" is bullshit, especially in the case of Islam.
Which is more evil? Cheating on a husband/wife, or killing somebody by throwing stones at them, breaking thier bones, smashing thier body apart....
Yeah, ur morality is f*cking twisted...you fail 👇