Galactus vs the Dreaming Celestial

Originally posted by leonidas

add to that the bit about galactus knowing fear once tiamut awoke again and, well . . . that's where my logic stems from. even in the ff arc where he was absorbing the universe, galactus had been manipulated/altered BY the dreaming celestial so as to be insatiably hungry. no real proof g could do that under his own power.

could the 'theoretical-full-power-galactus' beat a celestial. yeah, sure, probably. the g we see in books though? again, i'll take a celestial until g beats one in continuity. something i'd LOVE to see, btw.

Since we all like to debate, here's my logic to counter yours....

Originally posted by Tenebrous
yeah. that's been one of my primary arguments when debates about Tiamut-as one of the most powerful (or the most powerful, depends on some interpretations) celestials-vs. Galactus appear

i'll just quote from the celestial respect thread again, since i'm too lazy to post my own scans.

first scan shows arishem the judge and eson the searcher, and a few other celestials, "listening" to tiamut and showing him respect.

second scan shows that while imprisoned on earth, his energies were being slowly restored by the crypt his deviants had built. eventually he would return to his former power levels, allowing him to break free of his prison.

to engineer his revenge, he looks to control an external source of power. that said power source is quoted as "incalculable."

so, while Tiamut realized he was far above the other celestials, banding together they defeated him. So his power is not quite far above them enough to enable him to defeat them on his own, thus his need for external power, in the form of Galactus.

now some will argue that Galactus needed external manipulation to reach those power levels. That is true. But the manipulation wasn't the range of his power, only the scope. If you use the ultimate nullifier to nullify 10 planets, and I use the ultimate nullifier to nullify 20 planets, we use the same power, only i use it to larger scope. meaning, both of us wield the power necessary to destroy the planets, i only use it to greater "range."

it is already within galactus' power-set to do what Tiamut could not.

There are a few factors which prevent Galactus from replicating the feat he did while under the manipulations of Tiamut:

1. [B]His hunger can temporarily be satiated
Galactus' hunger temporarily abates after consuming planets, before returning again in about 1 month's time. However, it depends I guess on the situation. In the hyperstorm scans i quoted above, reed explained that hyperstorm had a limitless access to hyerspace energy, and galactus had perpetual hunger. so the last reed sees of them, they are locked together as galactus feeds on hyperstorm. however galactus has long since returned, and hyperstorm has not.

2. He has no inentions of destroying his universe
As a character, Galactus has always been written, ever since fantastic four #48, as a prime cosmic force, indifferent to human affairs and neither malevolent nor benevolent. He is above petty concerns. To my knowledge, he is the only character in all of Marvel to not ever have been tempted, in the slightest, to use all infinity gems to control reality and alter the universe for personal gain ("bad" personal gain in the case of thanos and the magus, "good" personal gain in the case of reed, "perfect" personal gain in the case of adam warlock, and Eternity, whom the IG-omniscient adam warlock stated would question his (meaning, Eternity's) place in the cosmic order behind LT if Eternity had possession of the IG). That alone should stand testament to the dreams of conquest, revenge, power, etc. that Galactus has: none at all. As written in comics, Galactus would never, with willful intention, exercise harm to the universe...he and Eternity are closely bound together in many ways. So, Galactus as a character has no motivation to actively pursue more than is required, and to consume/destroy the universe. Can he do it? yes, he can, as shown. Would he do it? No. Galactus has come to the defense of the universe multiple times (Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War, Hunger, Abraxas, Proemial Gods, Annihilation wave, Impossible Man) and has threatened the universe of his own accord zero times. [/B]

link to the actual post which has the actual scans http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10345059&highlight=forumid%3A77+userid%3A105618#post10345059

Originally posted by guy222
Tiamut

You sure about that, guy? mhmm

Originally posted by guy222

As mentioned before, Galactus tried to consume Tiamut. When Tiamut awoke 500,000 years later, Galactus knew fear. That speaks volume

Full power Galactus is supposed to = Eternity. Eternity has recreated Earth. Big G hasn't

You do realise Galactus consuming Tiamut occurred in an alternate reality. It wasnt 616 Galactus or the 616 Black Celestial:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/timebubblegalactus.htm

On top of that that alternate reality Galactus only became such a threat to that alternate reality because the Dreaming/Black Celestial altered his makeup and restored him after that Galactus died.

It wasnt naturally within that Galactus' abilities. So it would be flawed logic to use that instance to prove anything about 616 Galactus' capabilities.

The biggest feat we've seen on panel from 616 Galactus is during the Annihilation series when he destroyed 3 solar systems in a single outburst of power.

Dreaming Celestial FTW.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
If by theoretical you mean Galactus is part-Eternity...no, it's not theoretical. Galactus is an incarnate universe, stated on-panel in fantastic four

Merges with Eternity of Galan's universe:

confirmed again in Thanos #3:
"And as [b]Eternity had promised" i.e., Eternity=the Sentience of the Universe that spoke to Galan in the cosmic egg and merged with him.

confirmed in OHOTMU:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU😄ata_Corrections_Fantastic_Four_2005

(edit: the smiley syntax apparently overrides everything. it should read OHOTMU:data_ with a capital D for Data, not lower-case D.)

RE: Thanos/Galactus....no where was it mentioned that Galactus was "well fed," so that's pure conjecture. Thanos knocked Galactus on his ass but you forgot to mention what happens after that...

Thanos' attack did NOTHING but enrage Galactus:

Thanos activates ALL his shields...he activated 3 shields to stand against Odin

Nobody has humiliated Thanos like this, ever.

so ultimately, Thanos blasted Galactus on his ass, true, but Thanos had miliseconds to act, and in those miliseconds Galactus humiliated and overwhelmed Thanos, which Mar-vell, Silver Surfer, Magus, Adam Warlock, Thor etc. etc. etc. have never done in the entirety of all their lives

Anyway, regarding Franklin...Franklin reconstituted him, with Valeria's help, and they burnt out their powers. Not permanently, apparently... but the fact remains that energy required to reconstitute Galactus >>>>>>>energy required to create and maintain the pocket universe with all the heroes in it, and even a celestial [/B]

when thanos first came to speak to galactus he notes he was well fed. not speculation, directly said in the series.

the ff arc, as pointed out by gs, was non-canon, like the earth x is non-canon so neither issue has a place here. pure speculation to say g could do what he did in that ff arc.

by theoretical, i meant the 'theoretically-never-seen-full-power' galactus. franklin did need to burn his powers for a time, but he's still young.

there really isn't anything you can point to aside from the fact that g was powered by the energy of a universe when he was born. we also have seen on panel that when he died he became nothing more than a star. not a universe, or anything else particularly impressive, a star that may radiate energy forever -- or until the end of the universe presumably.

on panel, in 616 g has done nothing to show he could conclusively defeat this celestial. 😬

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Since we all like to debate, here's my logic to counter yours....

link to the actual post which has the actual scans http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10345059&highlight=forumid%3A77+userid%3A105618#post10345059

Its not within 616 Galactus' powerset to require a constant funnel of energy. The fact that 616 Galactus' hunger can and does get satiated shows there is a cut off point for the amount of energy his system can absorb. Then he exerts and his energy reserves deplete and he needs to eat again. Thats different to the alternate reality Galactus who had no cap on how much energy he could absorb. He was never satiated which was why in the end the Ultimate Nullifier was used.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not within 616 Galactus' powerset to require a constant funnel of energy. The fact that 616 Galactus' hunger can and does get satiated shows there is a cut off point for the amount of energy his system can absorb. Then he exerts and his energy reserves deplete and he needs to eat again. Thats different to the alternate reality Galactus who had no cap on how much energy he could absorb. He was never satiated which was why in the end the Ultimate Nullifier was used.

as an example of why such a relationship between "hunger" and energy absorption is erroneous, look at Galactus' herald The Surfer. he doesn't suffer from "the hunger", yet he can and does absorb energy on stupendous scales.

there is no implied cut off point, merely no explicit compulsion acting upon Galactus, forcing him to constantly seek nourishment.

furthermore Galactus' hunger was only out of control because his mind was affected, he was made to feel hunger, to never feel sated. that's not the same thing as 'removing a cap [a hypothetical cap, since we've never seen 616 Galactus lack for the ability to carry on consuming an energy source] on the amount of energies he can consume'.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not within 616 Galactus' powerset to require a constant funnel of energy. The fact that 616 Galactus' hunger can and does get satiated shows there is a cut off point for the amount of energy his system can absorb. Then he exerts and his energy reserves deplete and he needs to eat again. Thats different to the alternate reality Galactus who had no cap on how much energy he could absorb. He was never satiated which was why in the end the Ultimate Nullifier was used.

It was an alternate timeline of universe 616. Galactus was eating time and space, eventually he would have consumed his way back to the 616 universe once enough time and space had been absorbed.

The only thing the Black Celestial did was change Galactus' hunger level, not his actual abilities, so that Galactus thought he was constantly hungry.

Dreaming Celestial for the win

Originally posted by janus77
the logic doesn't hold.
the fact that Galactus' hunger can be sated does not in any way affect Galactus' ability to continue absorbing energies.

as an example of why such a relationship between "hunger" and energy absorption is erroneous, look at Galactus' herald The Surfer. he doesn't suffer from "the hunger", yet he can and does absorb energy on stupendous scales.

there is no implied cut off point, merely no explicit compulsion acting upon Galactus, forcing him to constantly seek nourishment.

furthermore Galactus' hunger was only out of control because his mind was affected, he was made to feel hunger, to never feel sated. that's not the same thing as 'removing a cap [a hypothetical cap, since we've never seen 616 Galactus lack for the ability to carry on consuming an energy source] on the amount of energies he can consume'.

In that alternate reality story, Galactus' makeup was altered so that he constantly hungered, therefore he constantly sought sustenance and threatened to eat that entire reality which is why he ultimately used the Ultimate Nullifier.

In 616 Galactus has stated himself to be fully powered or powered to capacity on a number of occassions. There are limits to the amount of energy he can absorb and it falls considerably short of eating a universe, therefore would it not be:

1) Foolish to use the alternate reality appearance as a representation of 616 Galactus' capabilities

2) Sensible to assume that when it states that Galactus' makeup was altered(NOT just his mind) that his capacity was increased from his 616 counterpart

😕

If you desire scans of Galactus consuming energy sources and talking of being fully fed, or fed to capacity then just ask and they will be provided. The only thing stopping me right now is sheer laziness.

Good day to you 🙂

Originally posted by Kutulu
It was an alternate timeline of universe 616. Galactus was eating time and space, eventually he would have consumed his way back to the 616 universe once enough time and space had been absorbed.

The only thing the Black Celestial did was change Galactus' hunger level, not his actual abilities, so that Galactus thought he was constantly hungry.

See my response to Janus77.

616 Galactus has been fully fed and filled to capacity. 616 Galactus has a cap to the amount of energy he can absorb.

Hunger isnt just a mental state, its a mental state induced by a physical need for sustenance. The fact that this alternate reality Galactus could keep on eating constantly tells you that Galactus was altered beyond his 616 capacity.

I'm not doubting Galactus could destroy a universe. Of course he could, but only with time and if noone stood in his way which obviously wouldnt be the case as there are far more powerful beings around than him.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The biggest feat we've seen on panel from 616 Galactus is during the Annihilation series when he destroyed 3 solar systems in a single outburst of power.

I would use his fight with Tyrant to be a bigger feat of power (Thanos said they wrecked numerous of galaxies).
And what is Tiamut biggest feat?

I still say Galactus takes him out. Wasn't also said that FP Galactus is equal to Eternity. I think Galactus should have higher upper power level than Tiamut.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I would use his fight with Tyrant to be a bigger feat of power (Thanos said they wrecked numerous of galaxies).
And what is Tiamut biggest feat?

I still say Galactus takes him out. Wasn't also said that FP Galactus is equal to Eternity. I think Galactus should have higher upper power level than Tiamut.

But that was a prolonged fight which involved two characters of equal footing. In a single outburst Galactus destroyed 3 star systems, i'd say thats more impressive, but both are cool.

Celestials as a whole are by canon stated to be far above cube beings which canon tells us have the power to harm Galactus.

The godheads of Asgard and Olympus attacked the Celestials with the power of their pantheons backing them and not a single Celestial was scratched and the Dreaming Celestial is belived to be amongst the most powerful of them.

On top of that, you cant ignore the captioned fear Galactus felt on the Dreaming Celestials awakening. Why fear something you are decidely greater than? Does Galactus fear Thanos?

Galactus was also astounded that HOTI destroyed a Celestial and that says alot given how powerful HOTI is.

All in all its my opinion that the Dreaming Celestial would win.

Oh and the full power Galactus equals Eternity thing is speculation from Galactus fans.

Galactus has called himself fully fed after getting a recharge from Gravity, a minor cosmic. He has called himself full to capacity after consuming energies far short of an entire universe. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In that alternate reality story, Galactus' makeup was altered so that he constantly hungered, therefore he constantly sought sustenance and threatened to eat that entire reality which is why he ultimately used the Ultimate Nullifier.

In 616 Galactus has stated himself to be fully powered or powered to capacity on a number of occassions. There are limits to the amount of energy he can absorb and it falls considerably short of eating a universe, therefore would it not be:

1) Foolish to use the alternate reality appearance as a representation of 616 Galactus' capabilities

2) Sensible to assume that when it states that Galactus' makeup was altered(NOT just his mind) that his capacity was increased from his 616 counterpart

😕

If you desire scans of Galactus consuming energy sources and talking of being fully fed, or fed to capacity then just ask and they will be provided. The only thing stopping me right now is sheer laziness.

Good day to you 🙂

unless there's some stated limit to Galactus' ability to absorb energy in 616 Universe, the default is to accept that he has none.

remember he has quite easily consumed energies from Mephisto's realm, when not hungry.

Galactus only consumes enough energies to keep himself going and not feel hungry, that's all. he does not usually consume energies for fun, thus once sated, he abstains from feeding. it is not because he somehow cannot consume more energies.

just as a challenge, can you find an instance of Galactus complaining that he is stuffed/overfed?

I doubt it.

anyway, to sum up H does not imply a limit to A, the only thing H does is give Galactus a reason to consume (A), bearing in mind his general disinclination to consume.

Originally posted by janus77
I was a bit curt because I was pressed for time, still am but, my point is that hunger (h) does not imply or affect absorption capacity (a).
a is independent of h, this was why I gave the example of Surfer, who absorbs energy all the time via PC but can also, and does also, siphon energy from opponents, suns, stars, supernovas ... just on whim.

unless there's some stated limit to Galactus' ability to absorb energy in 616 Universe, the default is to accept that he has none.

remember he has quite easily consumed energies from Mephisto's realm, when not hungry.

Galactus only consumes enough energies to keep himself going and not feel hungry, that's all. he does not usually consume energies for fun, thus once sated, he abstains from feeding. it is not because he somehow cannot consume more energies.

just as a challenge, can you find an instance of Galactus complaining that he is stuffed/overfed?

I doubt it.

anyway, to sum up H does not imply a limit to A, the only thing H does is give Galactus a reason to consume (A), bearing in mind his general disinclination to consume.

You dont seem to have taken my last post into account. Youve just followed directly on from your last post as if i hadn't replied.

Galactus has stated on more than one occassion to be fully fed or to have absorbed energy to his capacity and on both occassions the energy absorbed fell far short of a universe.

To have reached his capacity means that 616 Galactus has a limit to the amount of energy he can absorb. The fact that the alternate reality Galactus could carry on absorbing energy whilst our Galactus by his own admission has a cap, indicates that the Dreaming Celestials tamperings altered Galactus' capacity for energy absorption. That point cannot be denied. 🙁

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

616 Galactus has been fully fed and filled to capacity.
616 Galactus has a cap to the amount of energy he can absorb.

Originally posted by janus77
I was a bit curt because I was pressed for time, still am but, my point is that hunger (h) does not imply or affect absorption capacity (a).
a is independent of h, this was why I gave the example of Surfer, who absorbs energy all the time via PC but can also, and does also, siphon energy from opponents, suns, stars, supernovas ... just on whim.

unless there's some stated limit to Galactus' ability to absorb energy in 616 Universe, the default is to accept that he has none.

remember he has quite easily consumed energies from Mephisto's realm, when not hungry.

Galactus only consumes enough energies to keep himself going and not feel hungry, that's all. he does not usually consume energies for fun, thus once sated, he abstains from feeding. it is not because he somehow cannot consume more energies.

just as a challenge, can you find an instance of Galactus complaining that he is stuffed/overfed?

I doubt it.

anyway, to sum up H does not imply a limit to A, the only thing H does is give Galactus a reason to consume (A), bearing in mind his general disinclination to consume.

Originally posted by Kutulu

It was an alternate timeline of universe 616. Galactus was eating time and space, eventually he would have consumed his way back to the 616 universe once enough time and space had been absorbed.

The only thing the Black Celestial did was change Galactus' hunger level, not his actual abilities, so that Galactus thought he was constantly hungry.

Also, Galactus was going to absorb the entire Omniverse.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But that was a prolonged fight which involved two characters of equal footing. In a single outburst Galactus destroyed 3 star systems, i'd say thats more impressive, but both are cool.

Celestials as a whole are by canon stated to be far above cube beings which canon tells us have the power to harm Galactus.

The godheads of Asgard and Olympus attacked the Celestials with the power of their pantheons backing them and not a single Celestial was scratched and the Dreaming Celestial is belived to be amongst the most powerful of them.

On top of that, you cant ignore the captioned fear Galactus felt on the Dreaming Celestials awakening. Why fear something you are decidely greater than? Does Galactus fear Thanos?

Galactus was also astounded that HOTI destroyed a Celestial and that says alot given how powerful HOTI is.

All in all its my opinion that the Dreaming Celestial would win.

I would say him teleporting a galaxy is more impressive ore him going to devour a entire pocket dimension is a greater show of power but that's probably just me.

When have a Cube Being hurt Galatus?

Incorrect it was the entire asgardian Race, minus thor, in the destroyer that attacking the fourth Host, Zeus and the rest of his Pantheon wasn't involved in the battle against the host, on the other occasion it was Odin Vishnu and Zeus and nowhere did it state that they where backed by there entire pantheon they produced enough energy to blast a planet out of orbit not a impressive show of power.

If I remember Correct Galactus wasn't afraid when Tiamut awoked neither did he Fear Beyonder, but he fears Tiamut when he have encountered beings vastly more powerful without showing any signs of fear towards the encounter.

Actually it killed the Celestial not just destoyed it which has happened on at least two occasions (both times exitar) Killing has to my knowlegde happend twice, Thanos W/HOTU and in a alternate reality where Earth Population forms into a something resembling the uni-mind and kills Arishem.

Originally posted by Rorschach
You sure about that, guy? mhmm

✅