Galactus vs the Dreaming Celestial

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You do realise Galactus consuming Tiamut occurred in an alternate reality. It wasnt 616 Galactus or the 616 Black Celestial:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/timebubblegalactus.htm

On top of that that alternate reality Galactus only became such a threat to that alternate reality because the Dreaming/Black Celestial altered his makeup and restored him after that Galactus died.

It wasnt naturally within that Galactus' abilities. So it would be flawed logic to use that instance to prove anything about 616 Galactus' capabilities.

The biggest feat we've seen on panel from 616 Galactus is during the Annihilation series when he destroyed 3 solar systems in a single outburst of power.

Dreaming Celestial FTW.

Of course I do, my friend

Tiamut does win. We also agree on that

Originally posted by Utrigita
I would say him teleporting a galaxy is more impressive ore him going to devour a entire pocket dimension is a greater show of power but that's probably just me.

When have a Cube Being hurt Galatus?

Incorrect it was the entire asgardian Race, minus thor, in the destroyer that attacking the fourth Host, Zeus and the rest of his Pantheon wasn't involved in the battle against the host, on the other occasion it was Odin Vishnu and Zeus and nowhere did it state that they where backed by there entire pantheon they produced enough energy to blast a planet out of orbit not a impressive show of power.

If I remember Correct Galactus wasn't afraid when Tiamut awoked neither did he Fear Beyonder, but he fears Tiamut when he have encountered beings vastly more powerful without showing any signs of fear towards the encounter.

Actually it killed the Celestial not just destoyed it which has happened on at least two occasions (both times exitar) Killing has to my knowlegde happend twice, Thanos W/HOTU and in a alternate reality where Earth Population forms into a something resembling the uni-mind and kills Arishem.

My friend always makes good points

Arishem was 'killed' in What If

No shame in fearing the Baddest Celestial(Earth-616) Tiamut, the Dreaming Celestial

........................................................................................................

That future-self of Galactus 616 in the Black Celestial arc,
was an OMNIVERSAL threat,
not just a threat in fact,
indeed,
Galactus was beginning the process of absorbing the Omniverse entire:

........................................................................................................

These scans are from Avengers v1. #296 - 297

The beginning of the whole Black Celestial drama.
........................................................................................................

Where Galactus was being prepped to begin absorbing the ENTIRE OMNIVERSE,

and the EDITOR of this arc was MARK GRUENWALD ...

........................................................................................................

"Celestial renegade (Taimut) constructed a weapon (Galactus)
mighty enough to threaten the ENTIRE Space-Time structure of the OMNIVERSE"

........................................................................................................

Nebula had control of some avengers and was planning on taking Galactus' power:

"I have learned about the great weapon (Galactus) in Time"

........................................................................................................

MAKE NO MISTAKE!

The weapon is Galactus! (FF#341)

"Galactus Himself is the WEAPON"

........................................................................................................

A mini artistic depiction of the actual OMNIVERSE:

"Suffice to say that the weapon is Supreme (Galactus)
the OMNIVERSE is vast beyond imagining"

........................................................................................................

(Notice at the bottom of the scan, who the EDITOR is) 🙂

"The greatest weapon (Galactus) in the OMNIVERSE is nearly mine"

........................................................................................................

Is MARK GRUENWALD (the Editor) allowing hyperbole? ermmno

........................................................................................................

This (FF#337-341) is from the actual continuation of the arc above:

Galactus was in the process of absorbing "ALL EXISTENCE"

"Galactus who's busy wolfin' (eating) down ALL of TIME and SPACE"

............................................................................................

"The time will come soon when ALL the Energy in the UNIVERSE,
through out it's HISTORY will NOT be SUFFICIENT to feed him"

The History of the Marvel Universe ... as in the expanded OMNIVERSE!!!

........................................................................................................

Galactus was in the process of absorbing "ALL EXISTENCE" (Omniverse)

Confirmed by the Guardians of the Galaxy in yet another separate arc:

RESPECT Galactus yall! (evidently a potential Omniversal power)

Great scans, good friend

Gaiman's run on the Eternals badass

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You dont seem to have taken my last post into account. Youve just followed directly on from your last post as if i hadn't replied.

Galactus has stated on more than one occassion to be fully fed or to have absorbed energy to his capacity and on both occassions the energy absorbed fell far short of a universe.

To have reached his capacity means that 616 Galactus has a limit to the amount of energy he can absorb. The fact that the alternate reality Galactus could carry on absorbing energy whilst our Galactus by his own admission has a cap, indicates that the Dreaming Celestials tamperings altered Galactus' capacity for energy absorption. That point cannot be denied. 🙁

if on the other hand Galactus is merely saying that he is fully fed/sated, that is a different matter as it is not so much a 'physiological' limit as it is a statement of psychological satisfaction.
that is also why I read the alternate Galactus as being driven hungry via tampering to his mental state, rather than somehow increasing his physiology to allow for greater energy intake.

thanks for not getting irked by the tone of my previous posts, as I said I was pressed for time and sought to just clarify the substance of my argument 🙂.

Originally posted by janus77

if indeed he was filled to capacity then I concede I am wrong

Originally posted by janus77

but I would like to see a scan or two to confirm it
because this seems wrong to every understanding of 616 Galactus that I have so far seen communicated in comics. he is supposed to snuff out the universe eventually, is he not?

616 Galactus was stated to encompass an entire Cosmos by a would be herald of his,
proven,
when an alternate Galactus cracked open his chest and an entire Universe spilt out.

Alternate G < 616 G

But better yet,
On Panel when Galactus returned to his natural state (that of a Star)
he was revealed to contain INFINITE Energy:

"The TRUE FORM of Galactus is revealed at last"

"A NEW STAR is BORN" .....................
"Reed, what happened"?

"Galactus has been CONVERTED to ENERGY ...

Energy that will Radiate For EVER Outward" (INFINITE)

Originally posted by janus77

if on the other hand Galactus is merely saying that he is fully fed/sated, that is a different matter as it is not so much a 'physiological' limit as it is a statement of psychological satisfaction.
that is also why I read the alternate Galactus as being driven hungry via tampering to his mental state, rather than somehow increasing his physiology to allow for greater energy intake.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Oh and the full power Galactus equals Eternity thing is speculation from Galactus fans.

Galactus has called himself fully fed after getting a recharge from Gravity, a minor cosmic. He has called himself full to capacity after consuming energies far short of an entire universe. 😬

Originally posted by janus77
if indeed he was filled to capacity then I concede I am wrong but I would like to see a scan or two to confirm it because this seems wrong to every understanding of 616 Galactus that I have so far seen communicated in comics. he is supposed to snuff out the universe eventually, is he not?

if on the other hand Galactus is merely saying that he is fully fed/sated, that is a different matter as it is not so much a 'physiological' limit as it is a statement of psychological satisfaction.
that is also why I read the alternate Galactus as being driven hungry via tampering to his mental state, rather than somehow increasing his physiology to allow for greater energy intake.

thanks for not getting irked by the tone of my previous posts, as I said I was pressed for time and sought to just clarify the substance of my argument 🙂.

i'll post the scans galactic storm is talking about, janus. Context is required in this discussion, just like i provided in the thanos scans in my earlier post.

The Elder's of the Universe plan to destroy Galacuts using six planets and a sun. How is this going to destroy Galactus?

By using all 6 Infinity Gems in conjunction with each other. Note that they use the 6 gems to use the 6 planets as conduits:
"The six worlds RESONATE with the power of the gems, RECLAIMING the energies you absorb from their SISTERS"

i.e., the Elders use the 6 gems to steal all the energy consumed from all the planets (meaning, all the planets are the "sister" planets of the six planets the elders are using in the scan) that Galactus had in him at that time. So, to be clear, the elders used the 6 infinity gems to DRAIN Galactus of ALL the energies he had in him already at that time.

Elders again state that they are draining the very life force of Galactus from him. The energy they are draining is beginning to revitalize the six dead worlds

Nova flies into the sun, causing it to go nova and create a black hole in its stead. The elders lose hold of the infinity gems, temporarily breaking off the device siphoning energies from Galactus, and Galactus is now weak.

Finally, the scan that shows him stating he is filled to capacity: the energy surges..more potent than BEFORE

Now, let's be clear on this. If you take away all the dialogue boxes, and look only at the art, what you see is six planets fire a beam at big G, making him weak. Suddenly a black hole appears, the beam turns off, and Galactus is seemingly revitalized, from the six planets alone.

Add in the dialogue from the story, and this is what happens.

1. The Elders are using the 6 infinity gems, one per planet, one per elder, to siphon energies that Galactus already had in him.

2. The more energies the infinity gems siphon off, the weaker Galactus is getting. The energies that are being transferred from Galactus to the six planets is beginning to turn them from dead worlds to lush planets. Nova panics, and SS tells her to fly into the sun, thereby creating a black hole.

3. Black hole causes the gems to slip from the grasp of the elders, disrupting the process. Galactus reverses the controls, and all the energies that had been stolen from him are now given back.

So it's not 6 planets that feed him to capacity. It's 6 Infinity Gems used to siphon all the energy out from Galactus, and the energy is just *stored* in the 6 planets.

Why does it show just 6 planets? Why not 2,000,000 planets? Why not 0.0005 planets?

Because there are 6 Infinity Gems. That's why there's 6 planets, not because it takes 6 planets for G to get full, let's be clear on that. The Infinity Gems are what makes the whole plan of the Elders work...the 6 planets are nothing more than a storage bucket that can manipulated at whim by powers granted to each gem. G is simply getting back energies that are taken from him, NOT eating 6 planets to get to full capacity.

And as for Gravity and Galactus saying he's at full power....I have three words: Black Panther hammerlock

....not to mention mcduffie also had Uatu state, on-panel, in the same story-arc, that the Ultimate Nullifier belonged to him (i.e., Uatu).

Originally posted by janus77
if indeed he was filled to capacity then I concede I am wrong but I would like to see a scan or two to confirm it because this seems wrong to every understanding of 616 Galactus that I have so far seen communicated in comics. he is supposed to snuff out the universe eventually, is he not?

if on the other hand Galactus is merely saying that he is fully fed/sated, that is a different matter as it is not so much a 'physiological' limit as it is a statement of psychological satisfaction.
that is also why I read the alternate Galactus as being driven hungry via tampering to his mental state, rather than somehow increasing his physiology to allow for greater energy intake.

thanks for not getting irked by the tone of my previous posts, as I said I was pressed for time and sought to just clarify the substance of my argument 🙂.

i don't think anyone -- least of all me -- is demeaning galactus by saying the DC beats him. the fact is that a cube being (itself capable of altering reality on a universal scale) has claimed the celestials are far beyond him. g has never done anything close to universal reality manip in 616. arishem casually cut off 3 skyfathers from their realms.

again, using the typical galactus we see in books, i give this to the DC. would i be surprised if galactus defeated a celestial in straight combat in a book. not really, but based on what i've seen of both, i still gotta say the celestial takes it.

Originally posted by janus77
the logic doesn't hold.
the fact that Galactus' hunger can be sated does not in any way affect Galactus' ability to continue absorbing energies.

as an example of why such a relationship between "hunger" and energy absorption is erroneous, look at Galactus' herald The Surfer. he doesn't suffer from "the hunger", yet he can and does absorb energy on stupendous scales.

there is no implied cut off point, merely no explicit compulsion acting upon Galactus, forcing him to constantly seek nourishment.

furthermore Galactus' hunger was only out of control because his mind was affected, he was made to feel hunger, to never feel sated. that's not the same thing as 'removing a cap [a hypothetical cap, since we've never seen 616 Galactus lack for the ability to carry on consuming an energy source] on the amount of energies he can consume'.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
See my response to Janus77.

616 Galactus has been fully fed and filled to capacity. 616 Galactus has a cap to the amount of energy he can absorb.

Hunger isnt just a mental state, its a mental state induced by a physical need for sustenance. The fact that this alternate reality Galactus could keep on eating constantly tells you that Galactus was altered beyond his 616 capacity.

I'm not doubting Galactus could destroy a universe. Of course he could, but only with time and if noone stood in his way which obviously wouldnt be the case as there are far more powerful beings around than him.

I noticed that janus is arguing for a more psychological application of Galactus' hunger, as opposed to physical and biological, which is what galactic storm argues. Well argued.

But Janus has the better grasp of how it works. Look at the scan I post below. Full page scan for clarity...I won't paraphrase it so just read what Thanos says in the scans...this is the latest word on Galactus, the Power Cosmic, and Galactus' hunger, and the most in-depth look at all three we've ever seen, all on one page (goes to show how much writers have really tried to explain big G).

In short...Galactus will continue to feed, even though his physical body decays....hunger and Galactus' physical form are not entwined..it's mroe akin to his soul.

thanks for that scan Tenebreous 🙂, that's how I thought Galactus 'worked'.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think anyone -- least of all me -- is demeaning galactus by saying the DC beats him. the fact is that a cube being (itself capable of altering reality on a universal scale) has claimed the celestials are far beyond him. g has never done anything close to universal reality manip in 616. arishem casually cut off 3 skyfathers from their realms.

again, using the typical galactus we see in books, i give this to the DC. would i be surprised if galactus defeated a celestial in straight combat in a book. not really, but based on what i've seen of both, i still gotta say the celestial takes it.

Originally posted by janus77
thanks for that scan Tenebreous 🙂, that's how I thought Galactus 'worked'.

I wasn't accusing you of saying nor implying anything demeaning, was just trying to get at the mechanisms you thought were in operation, wrt Galactus' energy absorption.

i'm not actually sure about the mechanism behind his hunger. i'd agree with you that there is no reason to believe that he can reach a 'max limit'. i'd say, under normal circumstances, that when he was satiated he'd stop, but i'd agree that there is a chance he could still absorb energy even in a 'satisified' state. without ever seeing him at max, it's hard to be sure though. what is the most he has ever absorbed at one time? before doom interrupted, he was about to devour a star in secret wars (or did he?) and he was going to devour his worldship (or did he??) can't recall more than that, but he didn't APPEAR to be maxxed out. could he absorb the universe under his own power? that's a much bigger question. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not actually sure about the mechanism behind his hunger. i'd agree with you that there is no reason to believe that he can reach a 'max limit'. i'd say, under normal circumstances, that when he was satiated he'd stop, but i'd agree that there is a chance he could still absorb energy even in a 'satisified' state. without ever seeing him at max, it's hard to be sure though. what is the most he has ever absorbed at one time? before doom interrupted, he was about to devour a star in secret wars (or did he?) and he was going to devour his worldship (or did he??) can't recall more than that, but he didn't APPEAR to be maxxed out. could he absorb the universe under his own power? that's a much bigger question. 😬

the most he ever absorbed at one time is still the black celestial arc...now aside from the fact that everyone has already stated it's alternate future of 616, and has been referenced in OHOTMU as canon incident....the simple fact is that if it were not canon,

then why the hell would galactus "remember what it is to be afraid" when tiamut wakes up in eternals, if that wasn't 616 Galactus recalling what happened with himself and Tiamut?

So therefore we can comfortably reference Black Celestial arc as canon and ultimately the most he's ever fed...

...as for feeding one time, he failed to do any of that in secret wars because doom usurped his powers just as Galactus was beginning to absorb Taa II.

As per Taa II....Reed stated on panel that he thought Taa II is "the single greatest source of energy in the entire universe" obviously that's not true in an absolute sense...but the context I read it to be is that it's the single greatest source of energy created/manufactured by pure science alone....not magic or trans-dimensional entities or whatever

except . . . galactus was NOT normal galactus, he was 'altered' galactus, and altered by the very celestial in question. so at best all you can do is SPECULATE that normal galactus could do the same thing. didn't galactus START absorbing the sun but doom grabbed the energy first?

anyway, it would take a galactus more powerful than any we've ever seen in 616 to beat the DC, imo. again -- COULD he achieve that level of power? maybe. but without evidence of it, all i can do is go on what i've seen, and from what i've seen, DC wins. and he may well have been afraid because he recalled the battle between the DC and the celestials in the past. that is exactly what i'd assumed he was referencing in the first place. or perhaps he simply sensed DC's power, and knew what he was capable of.

Originally posted by leonidas
except . . . galactus was NOT normal galactus, he was 'altered' galactus, and altered by the very celestial in question. so at best all you can do is SPECULATE that normal galactus could do the same thing. didn't galactus START absorbing the sun but doom grabbed the energy first?

anyway, it would take a galactus more powerful than any we've ever seen in 616 to beat the DC, imo. again -- COULD he achieve that level of power? maybe. but without evidence of it, all i can do is go on what i've seen, and from what i've seen, DC wins. and he may well have been afraid because he recalled the battle between the DC and the celestials in the past. that is exactly what i'd assumed he was referencing in the first place. or perhaps he simply sensed DC's power, and knew what he was capable of.

No IIRC doom stepped into the path of the "absorbtion beam" before it went to G. After Doom absorbed it...he said every molecule obeyed his whim, and he was aware of every molecule. I don't have the scans on this computer but you can look them up if you want. Doom's description of what happened to him, is somewhat of an indicator of what G's powers would be if he absorbed Taa II. G was going to eat the sun after Taa II, IIRC.

Well, I've already stated the two factors that limit Galactus from replicating the same feat as what happened in black celestial arc:

1. his hunger adjusts as the story sees fit (he escaped from his supposedly "perpetual" battle with hyperstorm, who was supposed to sate G's hunger for all time with unlimited access to hyperspace, which I'll bring up again later)

2. He's incapable of destroying the universe of his own will. That's never been his character, so we'll never see it. Galactus does what is necessary, nothing more....there's really no way anyone can dismiss this point as being irrelevant...that's the way the character is written. Give Galactus Thanos' temperament...and Marvel ends before Infinity Gauntlet even gets underway.

As for G and Tiamut....I really see no other reference aside from their encounter. It's really, really, really stretching into conjecture and speculation to say G recalled the battle...cause I don't remember Galactus being mentioned at all when Tiamut lost to the 2nd host. Likewise...if Galactus is shown when Tiamut wakes up, the first correlation all readers would have in their minds is Galactus in the black celestial arc. The Watcher is actually the one who plays the part of the cosmic character who actually "sensed" Tiamut's power and acknowledges him...why would Galactus duplicate the same role in the comic book that the watcher has? IIRC the first cosmic character who shows a reaction in that eternals issue is the Watcher, who looks away because he can't bare to look, and then Galactus, who is shown to "REMEMBER" what it is to be "afraid." Remember=previous encounter. Previous encounter=Black Celestial arc. So it's been referred to on-panel.

Now, in regards to what Galactus can do against Tiamut:

In my post in the Galactus vs. Exitar thread, I showed the scans of Sue Storm KILLING Exitar via manipulation of hyperspace (the only reason why sue was even able to do anything to Exitar is because, stated on panel, Celestials have hyperspace in them. Sue simply manipulated hyperspace and obliterated Exitar from within). Galactus was abusing Hyperstorm like a fat boy with a stack of doritos, absorbing his hyperspace energy. Obviously, Hyperstorm>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>his grandmother in hyperspace manipulation/control. I also showed scans of 616-sue trying the same exact attack on an alternate-earth galactus (616-Galactus>all alternate earth Galacti) and it failed miserably. Bottom line, Galactus isn't susceptible to hyperspace. Celestials, and Tiamut, are. Galactus was locked with hyperstorm in a battle that was supposed to last for eternity, with G being perpetually fed by Hyperstorm's unlimited access to hyperspace. G has returned, Hyperstorm is still missing.

So again the point I bring up all the time...what is to stop Galactus from turning Tiamut into a battery, feeding on him for a second straight-time?

Secondly, you mention G doesn't have the feats to beat Tiamut....same coin, what has Tiamut done to even warrant G's attention?

Tiamut has almost zero feats against other cosmics...Galactus has tons...how can you assume DC wins when he's never displayed any high-end feats?

The only thing on panel is the time when Galactus was 'consuming' Tiamut. 500,000 yrs later, Galactus was afraid when Tiamut awoke

Its all we can go by between the two

Tiamut appears he can't die. 2nd Celestial Host used 'The Weapon'. 12 'Eyes' made him aware of his crime. U and I know after reading Gaiman's run(Eternals 1-7), Tiamut was goin to destroy the Earth. He also took a liking to Tony Stark

When the new Eternals series comes out in June(Early plug), we should see more of Tiamut's powers

Originally posted by Tenebrous
No IIRC doom stepped into the path of the "absorbtion beam" before it went to G. After Doom absorbed it...he said every molecule obeyed his whim, and he was aware of every molecule. I don't have the scans on this computer but you can look them up if you want. Doom's description of what happened to him, is somewhat of an indicator of what G's powers would be if he absorbed Taa II. G was going to eat the sun after Taa II, IIRC.

that's what i said. g started absorbing then doom interrupted. and he did seem powerful, but powerful enough? maybe, maybe not.

Well, I've already stated the two factors that limit Galactus from replicating the same feat as what happened in black celestial arc:

1. his hunger adjusts as the story sees fit (he escaped from his supposedly "perpetual" battle with hyperstorm, who was supposed to sate G's hunger for all time with unlimited access to hyperspace, which I'll bring up again later)

2. He's incapable of destroying the universe of his own will. That's never been his character, so we'll never see it. Galactus does what is necessary, nothing more....there's really no way anyone can dismiss this point as being irrelevant...that's the way the character is written. Give Galactus Thanos' temperament...and Marvel ends before Infinity Gauntlet even gets underway.

you can't use CIS/PIS to justify your stance though.

As for G and Tiamut....I really see no other reference aside from their encounter. It's really, really, really stretching into conjecture and speculation to say G recalled the battle...cause I don't remember Galactus being mentioned at all when Tiamut lost to the 2nd host. Likewise...if Galactus is shown when Tiamut wakes up, the first correlation all readers would have in their minds is Galactus in the black celestial arc. The Watcher is actually the one who plays the part of the cosmic character who actually "sensed" Tiamut's power and acknowledges him...why would Galactus duplicate the same role in the comic book that the watcher has? IIRC the first cosmic character who shows a reaction in that eternals issue is the Watcher, who looks away because he can't bare to look, and then Galactus, who is shown to "REMEMBER" what it is to be "afraid." Remember=previous encounter.

you're almost right. remember=previous encounter WITH FEAR, not necessarily with the celestial. there's a difference. and it seems to me he is doing the exact same thing uatu is -- recalling back to a time when teh DC roamed the universe. given what the DC did to him, i'd have expected anger if he recalled the ff arc, not fear.

Now, in regards to what Galactus can do against Tiamut:

In my post in the Galactus vs. Exitar thread, I showed the scans of Sue Storm KILLING Exitar via manipulation of hyperspace (the only reason why sue was even able to do anything to Exitar is because, stated on panel, Celestials have hyperspace in them. Sue simply manipulated hyperspace and obliterated Exitar from within). Galactus was abusing Hyperstorm like a fat boy with a stack of doritos, absorbing his hyperspace energy. Obviously, Hyperstorm>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>his grandmother in hyperspace manipulation/control. I also showed scans of 616-sue trying the same exact attack on an alternate-earth galactus (616-Galactus>all alternate earth Galacti) and it failed miserably. Bottom line, Galactus isn't susceptible to hyperspace. Celestials, and Tiamut, are. Galactus was locked with hyperstorm in a battle that was supposed to last for eternity, with G being perpetually fed by Hyperstorm's unlimited access to hyperspace. G has returned, Hyperstorm is still missing.

sue never killed exitar. it amounted to bfr. and perhaps g could affect him with some form of hyperspace energy attack. i've never seen him do that, but perhaps. or perhaps DC could simply shield himself then blast g or drain HIM.

Secondly, you mention G doesn't have the feats to beat Tiamut....same coin, what has Tiamut done to even warrant G's attention?

the fact that kubik acknowledges the celestials as WELL beyond him. the fact that 3 skyfathers attacks never even bothered a celestial less powerful than DC. overall, celestials have been more impressive imo. g has far too many low-end feats which i won't bother to bring up cuz you'll say they were PIS or a low-level g. all that goes into my considerations though. you want me to give g this battle based on a speculative version of the character. based on what i have SEEN and READ of both, DC gets the nod in this match.

Originally posted by leonidas

except . . . galactus was NOT normal galactus, he was 'altered' galactus,
and altered by the very celestial in question.

So the capabilities of absorption were all Galactus',
it's that side of Galactus we seldom see,
cause otherwise Galactus has no purpose in eating Universes or altering them,
which is also why we never see Galactus doing that.

Galactus' interest are in favor of the Universe,
after all, the Universe is his father, as the Universe's existence depends on Galactus,
this is why normal 616 Galactus isn't going to be manipulating Universes,
or destroying them, or especially creating them, it's not his job,
in fact, to the contrary, his purpose is to keep universal consonance.

Just sayin good friend.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's what i said. g started absorbing then doom interrupted. and he did seem powerful, but powerful enough? maybe, maybe not.

you can't use CIS/PIS to justify your stance though.

you're almost right. remember=previous encounter WITH FEAR, not necessarily with the celestial. there's a difference. and it seems to me he is doing the exact same thing uatu is -- recalling back to a time when teh DC roamed the universe. given what the DC did to him, i'd have expected anger if he recalled the ff arc, not fear.

Why would he do the same thing Uatu is doing? That's Uatu's job. Anyway everything is moot because I just recalled that the exact panel goes something like this:

"After 500,000 years, he [Galactus] had thought the matter over and done with. And Galactus remembers what it is like to be afraid"

I don't have the scans...Guy has the scans though. I'm paraphrasing but i'm 200% sure that the whole panel is referencing the black-celestial arc, because it was exactly 500,000 years into the future. So yes, finally, the whole event is canon. but anyway

sue never killed exitar. it amounted to bfr. and perhaps g could affect him with some form of hyperspace energy attack. i've never seen him do that, but perhaps. or perhaps DC could simply shield himself then blast g or drain HIM.

She killed Exitar. He was reformed, but not immediately. I don't think he reformed for the rest of the comic, if I recall correctly.

the fact that kubik acknowledges the celestials as WELL beyond him. the fact that 3 skyfathers attacks never even bothered a celestial less powerful than DC. overall, celestials have been more impressive imo. g has far too many low-end feats which i won't bother to bring up cuz you'll say they were PIS or a low-level g. all that goes into my considerations though. you want me to give g this battle based on a speculative version of the character. based on what i have SEEN and READ of both, DC gets the nod in this match.

No on the contrary, this was never "Full-Powered" Galactus vs. Tiamut. What Kubik says is tantamount to Galactus stating on-panel that Aegis and Tenebrous, members of the Proemial Gods, were "much, much worse" than the Beyonder (the Maker). Commonality is that all three were broken from the prison of the Kyln, and out of all three Galactus was worried about Tenebrous and Aegis...not the Beyonder. In fact, Thanos had originally gone to the Kyln to ally himself with the Beyonder against Galactus, but having found her dead, he discovered Aegis and Tenebrous there instead.

And yeah, you're right...I will bring up those low showings as PIS or hungry G, because that's entirely accurate. On the other side of the coin...what's PIS for the celestials? They come and experiment on sentient beings ever several millennia, and ultimately pass judgement over the sentient race. Galactus consumes worlds...there's a huge disparity in reasons to see the "villain" (i.e., G and the celestials) defeated...one case means the end of one's planet as they know it, another one is genetic tampering and manipulation of one's race as they know it. What I'm saying is, in the interest of stories in comics, there's a lot more incentive to see Earth live another day and drive G off by a group of four people, and there's a lot more incentive to let the Celestials not have low showings so they can continue with their experiments, which is why we can enjoy characters like the X-Men today.

You mentioned 3 skyfathers....how would Tiamut fare against In-Betweener, a true cosmic entity? Full-powered Tyrant, whose de-powered state overwhelmed a prepped Thanos, such that he (Thanos) had to steal one of Tyrant's orbs? Same Thanos who fought Odin to a near-standstill? I admit G has more low-showings, but again I've got to stress Tiamut has never fought cosmic entities on his own...it's just conjecture, as much as the "theoretical full-powered Galactus."

Finally, if Tiamut is so powerful......

....why did he have to use Galactus to exert his revenge on the rest of the Celestials? Why didn't he use his own power?

Originally posted by Mr Master
But Galactus' power wasn't altered Leo,
it was his satiated state only.

So the capabilities of absorption were all Galactus',
it's that side of Galactus we seldom see,
cause otherwise Galactus has no purpose in eating Universes or altering them,
which is also why we never see Galactus doing that.

Galactus' interest are in favor of the Universe,
after all, the Universe is his father, as the Universe's existence depends on Galactus,
this is why normal 616 Galactus isn't going to be manipulating Universes,
or destroying them, or especially creating them, it's not his job,
in fact, to the contrary, his purpose is to keep universal consonance.

Just sayin good friend.

i hear you, and i've acknowledged that normal galactus MAY be able to do what the altered galactus could do. from what i've seen of galactus, he would never willingly consume the amount of energy it would require to match the DC. COULD he? maybe. i've never seen him do it, of his own volition. and supposing for a moment that he WAS capable, why on earth would the DC let him ever GET to that point? it's not like g just walks up to cosmic entities and sucks their energy. and it's not like the DC would sity idly by and WATCH him consume energy to match him.

had the stip in the match been full-power g (whatever THAT is) then . . . i'd have styed out of the thread. 🙂 i presume this is standard galactus. every case i've heard FOR him implies he needs to amp to get to DC's level -- no reason DC would LET him amp. tenebrous has a decent case with a hyperspace attack, but it seems the DC could counter that given its level of power and its supposed 'unkillability'. a whole HOST couldn't do more than put him to sleep. 😬

we've seen celestials attacks billions of times/sec against the beyonder on many levels of reality simultaneously. a universal reality warper says celestials are well beyond him (if it was as easy as a hyperspace attack, i'd think kubik wouldn't be so impressed by them . . .) when g failed against the goblin force the celestials stopped it (though they had the numbers, but still, that speaks to a measure of hierarchy to me). their feats are superior to standard galactus and without special stips or a chance to amp, i simply cannot see g winning this i'm afraid.

offhand i remember "the weapon" was a vial that soaked up the essence of tiamut and was stored in the "pyramid of ancient winters" which is watched over by the polarian eternals.

and the way in to the pyramid is on ikaris's chest.

galan only has to make a herald run an errand for him to olympia and "coerce" ikaris to comply.