Sabretooth VS Carnage

Started by carver95 pages
carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by Jyppe
Oh, & Carver. How's Sabretooth getting 4/10 victories over Carnage?

Because spiderman punched carnage to sleep on to many occasions (when spidey was in the 10 ton range) and sabes is just as strong and is a MUCH better fighter than spiderman and is blessed with a healing factor that can take any punishment and he thrives off of pain to last in the fight until he uses his claws to either rip carnage head off or punch his hands through his head.

Jyppe PM me for nudes ;)
Originally posted by carver9
Because spiderman punched carnage to sleep on to many occasions (when spidey was in the 10 ton range) and sabes is just as strong and is a MUCH better fighter than spiderman and is blessed with a healing factor that can take any punishment and he thrives off of pain to last in the fight until he uses his claws to either rip carnage head off or punch his hands through his head.

On many occasions? Mind posting issue numbers then? Carnage's healing factor should take care of any major damage (Assuming it's good, or better as his father's) Slicing damage really didn't affect Venom (Kraven's spear etc)

Sabretooth isn't punching his hand through someone's head who can take Venom's attacks rather easily. IMO This is pretty much Upgraded Venom taking upgraded Wolverine.

Btw, here are the scans I promised.

Sabes uses a generator as a weapon

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Sabesgenerator.jpg

Sabretooth rips the head of one of those soldier's off. He was barely able to scratch their skin, so their skin is rather durable.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/headoff.jpg

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by Jyppe
Did Forge actually state that the field could take a raging elephant? Wait, are we debating about overall strenght or just benchpressing?

Hell, your Wolverine jumps 50ft in the air, but only benches 2 tons(?) Must be quite Dispraportionate.

as far as was stated: yes
I'm using the feat to guage an strength range.. but I explained about that above..
and the third point isn't a good example.. I can get my feet 4 to 5 feet off the ground with a decent jump... wolverine's 7 times stronger than me AT LEAST. it only stands to reason he'd be able to do something like that...

Though 50 feet might be pushin it.

Originally posted by Jyppe
How so? Can you write down what his words were exactly?

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm just thinking how serious Wolverine was at the time. How literally he said it /meant it.

"i seem to remember forge telling me this here force field could stop a full grown elephant" or something along those lines. Again are you doing to demonstrate an anti-benefit of the doubt?

Originally posted by Jyppe
And how nice of you to bring up old debates. And if you bothered to read my posts, I gave up on the matter (At the time I got the english version of the comic where Deathverine smashes through the door) But nooo. You just kept going. And Deathverine did demonstrate somekind of flashing energy when he punched Colossus' brother Mikhail.

you conceded to one point, not the entire argument.. 🤨

Originally posted by Jyppe
It said excess? Any idea how much?

Absolutely not. the link I provided just states: more than
the article I read stated "an excess of"

Originally posted by Jyppe
Instead of "whining" you could have posted issue numbers/feats. Exactly what I asked for. I'm more than willing to chance my opinion if some hardcore evidence is brought on the table. Maybe it's my ignorance, but that's why you're supposed to prove me wrong. Right?

Oh please, no one's whining here.. Now I'm just going to say this once:
You've implied that I'm "whining" you've implied that I'm moronic...

please be civil.

Originally posted by Jyppe
'Kay. but all scans should be taken into consideration. I'm not trying to downplay his higher showings, but this also sets a quide line. Pretty much the same with Venom's strenght, apparently they fluctuate a lot.

I agree.. my problem is just that.. when you've got a bio that states his strength, stats which support the bio, and feats that support the stats it's hard not to give sabretooth that estimation in strength..
especially when on the other hand the only hardcore feat that counters it comes from an arc as notorious and contradictory as ruccas for some of the reasons previously stated ALONE.

Originally posted by Jyppe
I don't really dismiss any evidence, I'll try to find other plausible solutions or theories. You should try it some time. Though that might've only worked because I don't have a hard on for any character.
And yet you've done it. 😬
Discarding the very examples that made the debate debateable in the first place.

And please, don't cop out on me here either.. I may appreciate the character but don't for an instant pretend that my appreciation for him inhibits my ability to reason.. Nothing I've said as of late as been non-factual, or at the very least up for debate.

Originally posted by Jyppe
To be honest, that shouldn't be used as standard of evidence. That would be just plain dumb. Sabes has other feats to back up. It'd be complitely moronic to assume that Sabretooth's strenght level would be THAT low. Hell, I think even Wolverine could have wiggled his way from under the car.

the very definition of PIS.. nuff said really.

Originally posted by Jyppe
That feat is a bit iffy with me, as next time he fought with Rogue, it didn't go so well for him.

Which time? the time she flew up from behind him and punched him 3 football fields out a skyscraper? or the time she flew up behind him again and buried him in a wall, relentlessly clobbering him? 😬

The next time he had a straight encounter with anything comparible was when he fought ms. marvel and he was outslugging her by her own admission.

Originally posted by Jyppe
And again it seems that you're taking this bit too seriously or getting pretty much worked up about by it. Maybe i'm reading you wrong, but your responses don't sound that nice to me (though in all fairness, neither do mine) but still.

and yet you're the one trowing insults about. 😐

Originally posted by Jyppe
I'm going to check for some scans If I can get some good strenght feats for Sabes. I'm not narrowminded, and I'm able to chance my view/opinion, if there's some good evidence. K?
k 🙂

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by Jyppe
End of max. - Carnage's mind was F-ed up by the ray gun, he wasn't even trying to fight Venom really.
Are you ****ing serious?
Carnage was the one who STARTED THE DAMNED FIGHT... lets not pretend like Carnage didn't know what he was getting himself into as soon as he lept toward Spidey and venom.
Carnage may have had a messed up mind but using that it is nothing more than a losers excuse considering that venom was equally f'd.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Venom vs carnage - You just happened to "forget" that he was pregnant at the time?

Peter parker incident? Issue number, short reviw on the plot? This happened when Venom ate his symbiote? Well, Carnage didn't even try to fight back, so it was hardly a fight.


No I don't remember that being an attributed reason to why he lost...
And it was hardly a fight because the symbiote was reacting to venom's commands not cassidy's.. kletus got pwned end of story.

Originally posted by Jyppe
During trial - They were both shot with the symbiote blockers, but AFAICR only Venom attacked Carnage. They both were propably quite weakened, and hence he went down so easily, did Carnage even attack venom in the issue?.

Once again on alevel playing ground, and once again venom put an end to the nonsense carnage was starting. Carnage didn't fight back because he couldn't.. Venom was pounding on him too fast and too hard to retaliate.

Originally posted by Jyppe
That's true, but combatants on KMC fight for best of their ability. Agreed that Venom is more clever and smarter. Carnage is the (more?) insane killer of the two.

And CIS is still in effect so carnage is still semi-retarded.. he deosn't even understand was "reign" means..

Originally posted by Jyppe
The difference is that Venom's damage was physical, and Venom heals over time. Carnage's mind was f-ed up. That doesn't really heal instantly. Besides, Venom WANTED to fight, Carnage was just fleeing and digging up his past. Seriously, how f-ed up has man to be to dig up his mother's grave? Even for Cletus.

Sure his damage was mental, but he wasn't exactly an atomaton, he knew exactly what he was doing and even attributed that his condition wasn't going to affect the outcome of his battle with venom.
Venom may eventually heal from his torture but lets not pretend like venom healed the instant he saw carnage.. cause that's folley.. they were both F'ed up, and venom absolutely curbed carnage...
Venom WANTED to fight.. carnage STARTED the fight.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Uh, Carnage himself stated that he was weakened after the birth, other wise he would have finnished off Toxin right away. Besides, how well does Spider-man usually fare against Venom?

Again, I don't remember that as an attributed reason for his loss.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Could be that Venom is the heroic one of the 2.

Cop out more likely due to carnage's stupidity.

Originally posted by Jyppe
The problem is, that the force field wasn't tested against anything else than Sabretooth's strenght. And he was still pushing against it, that doesn't really measure lifting strenght (Assuming that's how strenght is usually measure in Marvel)

Again, i realize it doesn't equate to his benchpressing abilitiy.. but it DOES show that he's definitely in the league one would need to be at in order to press 10-15 tons..
An elephant ALONE weighs 7 tons, and can drag 10 more.. I can only image how many tons of pressure they can apply with a full charge.. point in fact.. sabretooth's stronger than that.. Basically if Sabretooth and an elephant charged one another Sabretooth should come out the victor (no pun intended), it seems to imply he WELL within the 10-15 ton strength range.

And please cop-out there: next time someone shows me spiderman lifting up tons of debris or a rail car, I'm simply going to reply.. it doesn't count it was never tested against anything else.. 😕
Why are we so willing to give Sabretooth an anti-benefit of the doubt here?

Originally posted by Jyppe
That's pretty interesting. Why wouldn't it mean anything to me? Why didn't you post this earlier? What's the exact issue number so I can look it up myself and then I could maybe post the scans to this thread.

Btw, the Sabretooth respect thread should be tweaked a tad.


Well it doesn't seem as much of a feat that would dictate 10+ ton strength, though I'm unaware of how strong one needs to be to backhand a car off it's wheels... the elephant feat simply stands out as more impressive to me.

Originally posted by Jyppe
It's just silly though. I've seen him block some Wolverine's blows efforthlessly, but nothing else really. Even at the times they were grappling on the ground, neither one of them really had upper hand..

see I just don't understand how that logic works... Wolverine's grappled with characters like rogue, and roughouse.. batman's grappled with wonderwoman
I would attribute these events more to the skill of one character more than the lack of strength in another.

Originally posted by Jyppe
What kind of moronic example is that? I bet you didn't know that Spider-man holds back against nearly all of his opponents! Especially against a friend. 🙄 Yes, I'm sure Sabretooth holds back most of his strenght, because he doesn't want to hurt his good friend Wolverine. If anything happened, he wouldn't be able to get over it. 🙄 ..

you tell me, since you were the first to bring it's comparitive up... 😕

okay how about the times spiderman isn't holding back like with white ninja or wolverine?
How about when Spiderman himself is overpowered by a guy like kingpin? does that dictate spiderman has a lack of his stated and stat-ed super strength?

jinzin Senior Member

oh by the way, I know what you mean about the sabretooth respect thread.. if all goes according to plan we should have a new revamped sabes thread up and running by the end of the week it's going to contain about 90% of his career and I'm still debating with myself whether or not I should make it a 101 thread and include his bad showings as well or just leave it at a respect thread and discard the bad showings for now....

I'm just trying to round off getting some final issues for sabretooth feats..

if anyone has any feats from x-factor 123-125 that would be most appreciated..

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by jinzin
"almost as fast as spiderman"

🤨

carnage is FASTER than Spiderman. 😐

meh, I'd say carnage MIGHT take the majority here.. on the other hand... Sabretooth MIGHT eat him like he did those river of flesh dogs in the latest x-men book.

I could have sworn you tried to argue him not being faster than Spiderman...

Nikkolas Restricted

Carnage could beat both Wolverine and Sabertooth at the same time...that was settled here a while ago.

Just Sabes will be no problem.

python99 Senior Member

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Carnage could beat both Wolverine and Sabertooth at the same time...that was settled here a while ago.

Just Sabes will be no problem.

I dont think it will be a cake-walk

python99 Senior Member

Namor handles Venom, Venom has owned Carnage on some occasions, Carnage should take Sabretooth, Sabreooth can give Namor a good fight and POSSIBLY force it into a tiebreaker. WOW!
I wonder how Carnage fairs against Namor.

DarkSaint85 Bonified abstract

Originally posted by carver9
based on this
http://www.marveldatabase.com/Sabretooth_%28Victor_Creed%29

They didnt say enhanced strength but super human strength.
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=902

and you can also go by the nearest bookstore and buy a UPDATED marvel encyclopedia and it will tell you of his strength level. I own one and it says that his strength level is unknown but it is in the 15 to 20 ton range.

Amazing.