You can't use FP anakin because that's illogical and that's pretty much forbidden on this forums. However, Anakin as of ROTS was at his peak, and he doesn't stand a chance against Revan in the force. However, it is very likely he could win a saber battle, but I don't see that happening either. Now you can wonder why I think Revan would win a saber battle, especially since we have no information on his saber skills. However, Revan was indeed the best of the best in his era, and I think that at the very least gives him a stalemate with Anakin in terms of dueling.
Originally posted by Riverollv
um... whats a stalemate? sorry, dont think im an idiot, its just that my first language is spanish so..
Regarding Saber styles:
Anakin mastered Djem So (Form V).
Revan mastered Form I, possibly Form V, Form VI and Jar Kai.
And he was a skilled swordsman and after his fight on Star Forge, he proved to be a Prodigal Knight. I don't think that Anakin can defeat him even in pure Saber Combat.
Revan wins in all cases. And will easily destroy Anakin in the Force contest.
Wow, mommy, Revan might have mastered one or two more forms than Anakin Skywalker! That means jack shit.
And he was a skilled swordsman and after his fight on Star Forge, he proved to be a Prodigal Knight.
Ooh, a Prodigal Knight? I want to be a Prodigal Knight, but then again, what does "proving to be a Prodigal Knight" have to do with this discussion?
Anakin proved his worth by defeating Count Dooku on the Invisible Hand, and he could very well be the numero uno swordsman in a stronger Jedi Order of thousands (as well as the galaxy), and even if wouldn't consider him as such, whomever is ahead of him is more adept, and more skilled than Revan, or Malak (e.g. Yoda, Mace).
But, then again none of that matters, because Revan is a Prodigal Knight.
Revan wins in all cases. And will easily destroy Anakin in the Force contest.
No, Anakin can take him in bladed combat, him being a Prodigal Knight doesn't change that.
I'd personally say Revan takes it, even in saber combat.
Vandar described him as a saber prodigy, indicating that his natural grasp of the saber is on quite the high level; I would actually hesitate to even call Anakin a saber prodigy at all given he didn't technically advance at any extreme rate, and was only as good as he was because of his force strength.
Now we know that Revan did actually beat Darth Malak in saber combat, while being powered up by the Star Forge and described as near invincible. That's the same Malak who has quite the achievement under his belt, given that even in the days before he was powered up by the Star Forge, defeated Master Kavar, who was basically the BattleMaster of the KotOR Jedi Order, indicating he was one of the top KotOR Jedi Order duelists, and probably the best.
Revan's also faced far more combat against other force users and lightsaber users than Anakin has, seeing as he was involved in the Jedi Civil War. Add in the Mandalorian Wars, and he even has a greater overall battle experience than Anakin.
There's also the fact that Revan was perfectly content with going into battle with three powerful jedi with just his saber. Now we now that Revan certainly has the ability to have just taken them all out with the force, yet he was still confident enough in his saber ability to take it easy and just use his saber, implying that he might have been as confident in his ability with a saber as he was with his ability with the force.
The thing is, force ability strongly correlates with saber ability (precognition, reflexes, increasing your speed for example), and Revan being as strong as he is with the force heavily supports him being awesome with a saber.
So I'd say Revan takes this, due to his prodigious saber skills coupled along with his immense strength with the force, and his greater battle experience.
Originally posted by Advent
Wow, mommy, Revan might have mastered one or two more forms than Anakin Skywalker! That means jack shit.
Originally posted by Advent
Ooh, a Prodigal Knight? I want to be a Prodigal Knight, but then again, what does "proving to be a Prodigal Knight" have to do with this discussion?Anakin proved his worth by defeating Count Dooku on the Invisible Hand, and he could very well be the numero uno swordsman in a stronger Jedi Order of thousands (as well as the galaxy), and even if wouldn't consider him as such, whomever is ahead of him is more adept, and more skilled than Revan, or Malak (e.g. Yoda, Mace).
But, then again none of that matters, because Revan is a Prodigal Knight.
Anakin's victory over Dooku is impressive but that does not compares to what Revan faced in his final long fight on Star Forge.
Yoda and Mace being ahead of Revan in Saber Combat is questionable. Mace's case can be backed up by his victory over Sidious but I can't say the same about Yoda.
Originally posted by Advent
No, Anakin can take him in bladed combat, him being a Prodigal Knight doesn't change that.
Revan is not like Dooku.
Originally posted by allfg
I'd personally say Revan takes it, even in saber combat.
Well, I might even say you're wrong.
You're wrong.
Vandar described him as a saber prodigy, indicating that his natural grasp of the saber is on quite the high level
Palpatine described him as "the most gifted Jedi [he] has ever met". Even Mace Windu says that his skills are exceptional. And the omniscient narrator would note Anakin Skywalker as:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation (which likely doesn't include Mace Windu, or Yoda). Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. (Revenge of the Sith novelization, Ch. 1)
Even if do want to consider it hyperbolic, it indicates that he is vastly powerful, and immensely skilled.
Within less than ten years, Anakin mastered Djem So to be able to wield the form with enough proficiency for Count Dooku to proclaim him as "fine a one as [he] had ever seen". Now, as we know, that's obviously an innumerable amount of Jedi, given that Count Dooku was around for years upon years.
I would actually hesitate to even call Anakin a saber prodigy at all given he didn't technically advance at any extreme rate
He was able to do in ten years what the majority of Jedi cannot do in a lifetime - defeat Count Dooku. If that's not indicative of him being prodigious, I don't know what is.
Now, you'll also have to take into account that he would've had to have practiced Shii Cho, and Ataru before even beginning Djem So, so it's even more of a testament to his skill that he was able to do such, and still go on to defeat Count Dooku, who would make some Council members look like child's play.
Now we know that Revan did actually beat Darth Malak in saber combat, while being powered up by the Star Forge and described as near invincible.
1. We know that Revan overcome Darth Malak in combat; where does it specifically state "saber combat"? As saying merely that implies they only dueled using lightsaber.
2. To go along with that, unless there's new information out, we have absolutely no idea of by how he defeated him, or even by what margin.
3. "This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic.
Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed." (Star Wars databank, Darth Malak)
It does indeed say that he was "nearly unstoppable", however, it then goes on to say that the Republic won, because the Star Forge was destroyed, and there's talk of the skirmish between the two forces, as well. One could assume that it wasn't stating that Malak, as an individual being was nigh unconquerable, but the entire force he had at his disposal.
That's the same Malak who has quite the achievement under his belt, given that even in the days before he was powered up by the Star Forge, defeated Master Kavar, who was basically the battle master of the KotOR Jedi Order, indicating he was one of the top KotOR Jedi Order duelists, and probably the best.
Yes, that's "quite the achievement" compared to Anakin defeating Dooku! Hell, Anakin's stomped Cin Drallig, the battle master of the RotS Order, into a mudhole. While he's not the best, the mere fact that he was able to kill him using one hand while choking a padawan with the another speaks volumes.
Anyways, to get on point, Kavar, as far as we know, was jack shit when compared to Anakin, or even Count Dooku for that matter. Do you have any proof of the contrary? That he's even on their level? As for the actual duel between the two, what were the circumstances of the fight? Such as: how did Malak win, was it a basic beat down or a TPM Kenobi (or a hard fought duel that could've gone either way), etc. His defeat of Kavar is impressive, but not overly so, due to the fact we know next to nothing about what happened, and one thing we do know, though, is Malak got his jaw cut off by a Jedi.
I'm going to do the same thing you've done, except tailor it to fit my argument. Anakin was victorious over Count Dooku, and defeated him in record time. That's the same Dooku who has quite the list of achievements under his belt:
Originally posted by Advent
As seen in the background is Tholme, who himself is no weakling was battling with Sora (2-on-1) against Dooku, and even so Dooku still beat Sora, and right after spared Tholme, only of course, after owning him with his saber as well:Really though, Dooku has a vast amount of training, and experience over Malak. Roughly 80+ years of it. Since we know he was trained as a youngling, he has about 70+ years experience as a Jedi, and 13 years as a Sith Lord. Now, we know experience definitely isn't everything, however, to deny it gives an advantage is purely ridiculous. For example, throughout those years - he is stated to know "Every weakness of Ataru" (his duel against Yoda obviously didn't end in a victory, however, Yoda's pure skill is probably better than anything).
And within those years, has mastered Makashi - the lightsaber to lightsaber form - to it's highest degree. Admittedly, forms are necessity for victory, however, it's clue that Dooku's lightsaber skills are no joke.
He has also bested Mace Windu in personal combat before, now Windu wasn't at his peak, however, he still beat him (it's kind of irrelevant to even bring up, but just to add to the fact). He's also described as "Dooku, consummate planner, consummate duelist." Consummate meaning perfect or to the highest degree. Clearly Dooku's skill with a lightsaber is amazing. Even Yoda comments on his skills:
"Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "[b]Best of all, Dooku would be!
"Calling him the strongest student, and one that has learned the most. We also know Dooku is more powerful than Grievous, who has slain numerous Jedi Masters with ease (Council member as well), Asajj Ventress, and so on. [/B]
Furthermore, he was able to easily take down AotC Kenobi, who - even for the time - was never considered a shoddy swordsman, and AotC Anakin, then was able to combat Yoda for a decent amount of time, and still escape with his head on his shoulders. Not to mention, being described by the omniscient narrator as "one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history" (meaning one of the most powerful beings in the Order ever), and then titled as "an even greater Sith", implying his power increased.
Dooku really doesn't need anyone to list his feats, seeing as on merit alone, he's considered one of the best lightsaber duelists of his era, and more than likely in the top five of a stronger era (when it comes to top dogs, at least); those who are ahead of him, like Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Anakin, etc. are all better than Kavar, so it doesn't matter what his rank is.
Being at the top of the food chain in lightsaber combat within the Jedi Order is no small feat, but it doesn't mean that he's anywhere in the same league as the best of a different era. Even General Grievous is seemingly more talented (in blades).
Revan's also faced far more combat against other force users and lightsaber users than Anakin has, seeing as he was involved in the Jedi Civil War. Add in the Mandalorian Wars, and he even has a greater overall battle experience than Anakin.
That's great, but experience is hardly the end all, be all. It may add an advantage, but as we've seen demonstrated on several separate occasions, it doesn't stop more skilled opponents from killing them all the time.
There's also the fact that Revan was perfectly content with going into battle with three powerful jedi with just his saber. Now we now that Revan certainly has the ability to have just taken them all out with the force, yet he was still confident enough in his saber ability to take it easy and just use his saber, implying that he might have been as confident in his ability with a saber as he was with his ability with the force.
There's also the fact that Anakin chooses to dominate his opponents with a lightsaber, and is perfectly content with unleashing his rage, and honing it like a weapon to completely overwhelm even the greatest of swordsman. Which, to me, implies that Anakin is a beast in lightsaber combat, and could very well take down anyone in the era in a pure lightsaber bout.
In an seriousness though, even if that were the case, it doesn't mean that in actuality he's as good in practice with lightsabers as in the force, we've seen several occasions where people decide to ignite their lightsabers, and choose that route over a force battle, even when they may have a better chance.
The thing is, force ability strongly correlates with saber ability (precognition, reflexes, increasing your speed for example), and Revan being as strong as he is with the force heavily supports him being awesome with a saber.
No one is denying that he's good with a lightsaber, so I don't really care. But, for all of Count Dooku's strength in the force, years of experience, and talent with a blade, he still lost to Anakin, and during their one-on-one duel, he did so very quickly, I might add.
I'm of the mind that Revan won't beat him. All these miscellaneous reasons, or the fact that Revan was a Prodigal Knight don't change the fact Revan isn't John Cena, so he's not overcoming these odds (Anakin) in saber combat.
@ S_w_LeGo:
Be quiet, and go respond to my where I, and everyone else, kicked your ass in this thread. I don't have time to watch Barney, and play with these toy arguments you give. Let someone who's a more capable debater attempt this situation.
Originally posted by Kadesh
At their peak are you kidding? that would mean FP anakin and revan will get pwned
Anyways, I think that Revan would take this but it'd be very close. Anakin might be better with a blade but Revan is stronger with the Force.
You want exceptional debating Advent, now you will get it.
Originally posted by Advent
Well, I might even say you're wrong.You're wrong.
Originally posted by Advent
Palpatine described him as "the most gifted Jedi [he] has ever met". Even Mace Windu says that his skills are exceptional. And the omniscient narrator would note Anakin Skywalker as:The most powerful Jedi of his generation (which likely doesn't include Mace Windu, or Yoda). Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. (Revenge of the Sith novelization, Ch. 1)
Even if do want to consider it hyperbolic, it indicates that he is vastly powerful, and immensely skilled.
Within less than ten years, Anakin mastered Djem So to be able to wield the form with enough proficiency for Count Dooku to proclaim him as "fine a one as [he] had ever seen". Now, as we know, that's obviously an innumerable amount of Jedi, given that Count Dooku was around for years upon years.
So it is not a big deal if Anakin was the most gifted Jedi on his age. I can say that Luke was also a gifted Jedi of his age.
Revan’s famed Jedi Master “Kriea” said this about Revan: “Revan was power. Looking in to his eyes was like staring in to his heart of the Force.”
Even if this statement seems a little hyperbolic, it still gives us a hint about how powerful Revan was. Describing someone as heart of the Force is not so easy. Only Luke skywalker earned this level of respect.
Canderous said this about Revan : “You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor."
Revan proved to be the greatest warrior of his age by defeating so many individuals in combat that we cannot even count them. He crushed Mandalore - The Ultimate (the most talented and powerful Mandalore in KOTOR period) in a single combat and executed him in-front of his followers like he was nothing but a joke.
Echani also held a great deal of respect for him even though they hated him. Yusanis the most powerful Echani warrior challenged Revan in a fight and Yusanis had never lost in a single fight in his life. But this was his ultimate mistake and despite his own impressive skills, he fell under the wrath of Revan.
The Echani believed that Revan represented the epitome of what one could achieve in the arts of war, and that his skill was borne out of a highly advanced battle precognition. Revan’s precognition capabilities were excellent in short words. And greater the precognition of a Jedi, the more effectively he will fight.
Besides having exceptional powers as a force-user, as well as a master planner, he also proved to be a capable droid builder (like Anakin Skywalker), but programming it to be the ultimate assassin and droid translator instead of just a protocol droid.
Originally posted by Advent
He was able to do in ten years what the majority of Jedi cannot do in a lifetime - defeat Count Dooku. If that's not indicative of him being prodigious, I don't know what is.Now, you'll also have to take into account that he would've had to have practiced Shii Cho, and Ataru before even beginning Djem So, so it's even more of a testament to his skill that he was able to do such, and still go on to defeat Count Dooku, who would make some Council members look like child's play.
Revan smashed Yusanis (the most powerful and experienced Echani warrior ever known) in a single combat. He also brought down one of the best swordsmen of his age “Malak” to his knees on Star Forge despite all the preparations and advantages that Malak enjoyed on Star Forge. Malak was the DLOTS and was the declared to be the strongest among Sith by his own followers. Revan also single-handedly smashed two Terentateks (beasts that were known as Jedi killers) in a single combat on Korriban and note that Terentateks are immune to most of the Force attacks as indicated in KOTOR.
Revan also smashed hordes after hordes of Dark Jedi on Star Forge despite them being boosted by the strong presence of Dark Side and additionally being aided by Bastilla’s Battle Meditation.
And Revan practised Shii Cho, Soresu, Ataru and Djem So before he even attempted to master Form VI saber style. And then he went forward to master Jar Kai combat style and was known to be among its greatest pracitioners. His great achievements in several years of war and then his amazing display of power and skills on Star Forge were testament to his power. The Jedi Council sent several Jedi Knights on Star Forge and all were crushed but Revan succeeded against all heavy odds in a single long battle. The Sith army that came to face Revan consisted of large number of powerful Battle Droids, Dark Jedi and heavily armed Elite Sith Troopers and they were being aided by Battle Meditation of Bastilla and still they all failed as Revan destroyed waves after waves of legions of this army on several ocassions/places of Star Forge before reaching Bastilla. As for his powers, he was perhaps the closest stated in the current canon (legacy of the force) as the perfect practitioner of both Jedi/Sith powers, who wasn't truly influenced by the dark or light powers. If this all is not prodigious then I don’t know what is.
Originally posted by Advent
1. We know that Revan overcome Darth Malak in combat; where does it specifically state "saber combat"? As saying merely that implies they only dueled using lightsaber.2. To go along with that, unless there's new information out, we have absolutely no idea of by how he defeated him, or even by what margin.
3. "This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic.
Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed." (Star Wars databank, Darth Malak)
It does indeed say that he was "nearly unstoppable", however, it then goes on to say that the Republic won, because the Star Forge was destroyed, and there's talk of the skirmish between the two forces, as well. One could assume that it wasn't stating that Malak, as an individual being was nigh unconquerable, but the entire force he had at his disposal.
1. The handmaiden in KOTOR II described the fight between Revan and Malak as an Epic one. The vision of Duron Qel Droma also indicated Revan holding his ignited Light Saber and standing tall over fallen Malak. Even on official Star Wars blogs section, it was indicated in the profile entry of Revan that Revan killed Malak in a “Titanic” Duel. All
these cases suggest that immense Saber Combat took place between Revan and Malak on Star Forge.
Here is a PIC of vision of Duron about duel between Revan and Malak:
Now obviously Revan was not posing there with his Light Saber.
2. The above cases suggest that it was an Epic fight in which extensive Saber Combat also took place between the two foes.
3. The entire Force that Malak had on his disposal was indeed very powerful and with support from Bastilla’s Battle Meditation, they were invincible. But SW Databank also used word “he” when referring to Malak , when using the term “nearly unstoppable”. The choices of words do matter here as this is mentioned in an official source. They could have said that Malak’s Forces were nearly unstoppable when mentioning this but they did not and instead chose to say that Malak was nearly unstoppable. They knew that Batilla’s support was swayed away by Revan and then it came down to Malak. Malak was indeed nearly unstoppable on Star Forge after all the preparations he made to solidify his position before facing Revan.
Originally posted by Advent
Yes, that's "quite the achievement" compared to Anakin defeating Dooku! Hell, Anakin's stomped Cin Drallig, the battle master of the RotS Order, into a mudhole. While he's not the best, the mere fact that he was able to kill him using one hand while choking a padawan with the another speaks volumes.
Originally posted by Advent
Anyways, to get on point, Kavar, as far as we know, was jack shit when compared to Anakin, or even Count Dooku for that matter. Do you have any proof of the contrary? That he's even on their level? As for the actual duel between the two, what were the circumstances of the fight? Such as: how did Malak win, was it a basic beat down or a TPM Kenobi (or a hard fought duel that could've gone either way), etc. His defeat of Kavar is impressive, but not overly so, due to the fact we know next to nothing about what happened, and one thing we do know, though, is Malak got his jaw cut off by a Jedi.
Then kavar instructed Jedi Exile in the arts of Saber Combat and she turned out to be one of the most successful fighters in her age and also helped her in difficult situations during fights. And so what if Malak got his half-jaw cut from a Saber strike under mysterious circumstances? LOTF Luke got his hand chopped off in one of his fights and we know the reason. It is possible that Malak would have been distracted when this happened.
As evident from KOTOR II: Kavar practiced Jar'Kai and other variants of the Light Saber combat forms including Ataru, Shien, Niman, and Juyo. Kavar was also known to practise Force Lightning (even as a Jedi).
I would rate Kavar much higher then Dralling.
Originally posted by Advent
I'm going to do the same thing you've done, except tailor it to fit my argument. Anakin was victorious over Count Dooku, and defeated him in record time. That's the same Dooku who has quite the list of achievements under his belt:Furthermore, he was able to easily take down AotC Kenobi, who - even for the time - was never considered a shoddy swordsman, and AotC Anakin, then was able to combat Yoda for a decent amount of time, and still escape with his head on his shoulders. Not to mention, being described by the omniscient narrator as "one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history" (meaning one of the most powerful beings in the Order ever), and then titled as "an even greater Sith", implying his power increased.
Dooku really doesn't need anyone to list his feats, seeing as on merit alone, he's considered one of the best lightsaber duelists of his era, and more than likely in the top five of a stronger era (when it comes to top dogs, at least); those who are ahead of him, like Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Anakin, etc. are all better than Kavar, so it doesn't matter what his rank is.
Being at the top of the food chain in lightsaber combat within the Jedi Order is no small feat, but it doesn't mean that he's anywhere in the same league as the best of a different era. Even General Grievous is seemingly more talented (in blades).
Now about Malak:
Early reputation as a promising Jedi:
Malak like Revan was a quick learner and always wanted to learn more as compared to all other Jedi of his age. This was a first glimpse of his earlier personality. He was also strong in the Force and was considered to be second only to Revan among thousands of Jedi students which is noticeable. Not all people earn this kind of reputation.
A Jedi Hero and a strong and experienced warrior:
Malak was the first Jedi to follow Revan in the fight against Mandalorian Forces and and gained immense experience fighting alongside him in the war that continued for about 4 years. Malak held a reputation of recklessely charging in to dangerous fights and win during the Mandalorian Wars (as indicated by SW Databank). He would have killed many battle-hardened Mandalorians which is a noticeable achievement to earn a notorious reputation of head-strong warrior and became a war hero like Revan. And we know that Mandalorians were much more capable warriors then those Battle Droids that we saw in the movies and Obi-Wan was having trouble against one experienced Mandalorian warrior in AOTC. This gives us a glimpse of how powerful Malak was.
Becomes a powerful Sith Lord:
Among all the followers of Revan, he chose Malak as his apprentice after becoming a Dark Lord. Then Malak travelled to several worlds (where presence of Dark Side was stronger) alongside revan in quest of greater power and learned a great deal of Sith techniques from such experiences and training by Revan.
Darth Sion said this about Malak: “Malak had power and he embraced it.”
The DLOTS of Sith:
Malak became very powerful under his training from Revan and it was only matter of time that he was becoming ready to challenge Revan for DLOTS title. As he was a very quick learner (indicated before), in just 3 years of training he was getting ready to challenge his master, which is noticeabale. Malak revealed this when we meet him on Leviathan. Count Dooku despite becoming powerful from training from Sidious never had the guts to challenge his Sith Master and fell to his trap.
Malak said this to Revan: “Soon I was going to be ready to challenge you for the mentle of Dark Lord even if I had not betrayed you”. But fortune shined on him and his job became much easier as Revan fell in to the trap of Jedi. Malak knew that Revan would win and defeat all those Jedi, so he decided to betray him and succeeded. Now since Revan was the most powerful Jedi/Sith in his age and was very knowledgeable (as indicated in POD Novel), so it is highly possible that Malak would have failed against him but at-least Malak had the guts to make such a decision.
Apart from this Malak was considered to be the strongest Sith among all of his followers (after Revan of-course).
Yuthura Ban said this about Malak: “Malak is the strongest of us, and the strongest always rules… at least until one who is stronger can take it from him."
This clearly reinforces my point that Malak was very powerful.
Notable victories:
- Against Kavar
- Against Bastilla Shan (on Leviathan)
- Against Revan (on Leviathan)
Against Kavar: Although not much is known about this fight but Kavar nearly escaped with his life when he faced Malak.
Against Bastilla Shan: Bastilla Shan also was a promising Jedi and was famous for leading the Jedi strike team against Revan. She also possibly mastered double-bladed Saber combat technique. On Leviathan, she was was no match for Malak and he easily defeated her.
Against Revan and his two accomplished companions: Revan was the most powerful Jedi in his age and even stronger then Malak. He clashed with Malak on Leviathan and soon discovered that Malak was not at all an easy foe. Despite his immense power and his dominance over Malak in the initial duel, Revan failed to defeat Malak and Malak managed to over-power him with his Force Mastery after a brutal clash, until Bastilla saved his life by distracting Malak and sacrificed herself for Revan and Carth to escape. This was Malak’s greatest victory in a single combat.
Continued...
Malak’s Power and Force Mastery:
Indicated in Dark Forces: “An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies.”
Malak was a master swordsman and an adept Force User. Drew indicated that Malak used Juyo (which is the best Saber Form known) and suited aggressive fighters well.
Here is what Malak was capable of according to KOTOR:
- Master Practitioner of Force Lightning. He could instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning (as shown in KOTOR). He also tortured and corrupted Bastilla Shan with his Force Lightning in the Rakatan Temple.
- TK abilities. (Adept in art of Saber Throw as well)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Choke
- Force Whirlwind. (He trapped Revan in a Force Whirlwind on Leviathan)
- Capable of Force stunning multiple Jedi. (He instantly stunned Bastilla and Carth in a cut-scene in KOTOR)
- Mind Control capability.
- Strong defensive abilities like Force Deflection and protected by a strong body armor (that could deflect a Light Saber as demonstrated in KOTOR)
- Force Drain capability.
- Telepathy.
- Burst of Speed capability.
- Force Healing capability.
- Force Jump.
Comparison with Dooku:
In contrast to this what Dooku knew/demonstrated in the movies is following:
- Practitioner of Force Lightning.
- Strong TK abilities.
- Force Grip.
- Force Push.
- Force Jump.
- Force Deflection.
- Possibly Burst of Speed.
- Possibly Telepathy.
Saber Skills:
Dooku is expert of Makashi and yet Juyo is more effective then Makashi, which Malak knew and mastered (as hinted by Drew to me). Malak held a reputation of head-strong and very aggressive warrior like that of Anakin.
Strength Factor:
Dooku is an old man and his strength was not as great as that of Malak. Malak was taller, physically stronger and a very imposing figure and greater strength always gives advantage to a Jedi in combat situations. Malak even survived the horrid injury he suffered on his face through unknown circumstances and managed to over-come its incredible pain through his will.
Experience Factor:
Now despite being a powerful Sith Lord, I don’t see Dooku having any great advantage over Malak. If you talk about experience then you should note that real experience is always gained from wars and conflicts and not just from years of training.
Dooku as far as I know had participated in Clone Wars (that continued for 4 years).
But Malak participated in two wars:
A) Mandalorian Wars (which continued for 4 years).
B) Jedi Civil War (which also continued for 4 years).
Malak had faced no less hard challenges then Dooku faced and he faced them all with courage and was only defeated by the Prodigal knight on Star Forge. If Dooku faced Yoda and Mace then Malak faced Revan twice, who is one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith in the Star Wars universe (considered by many to be among TOP 5 Jedi and Sith and a match for Yoda).
We also know that Malak is far more powerful then Darth Bandon who had slain many Jedi including Revan’s one time friend (Trask). Darth Bandon was also a powerful Sith as described in the SW Databank for having great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself.
And Malak was the second strongest after Revan (who is more powerful then Dooku in every aspect) among the order of thousands.
Malak also used some dominating weapons in combat. He was thought to have possessed a powerful Sith Sword recovered from Korriban, although he rarely used it in combat. He indeed used a special Light saber, longer than then the standard sabers. Longer Light Saber has more chance to hit an opponent.
Originally posted by Advent
That's great, but experience is hardly the end all, be all. It may add an advantage, but as we've seen demonstrated on several separate occasions, it doesn't stop more skilled opponents from killing them all the time.There's also the fact that Anakin chooses to dominate his opponents with a lightsaber, and is perfectly content with unleashing his rage, and honing it like a weapon to completely overwhelm even the greatest of swordsman. Which, to me, implies that Anakin is a beast in lightsaber combat, and could very well take down anyone in the era in a pure lightsaber bout.
In an seriousness though, even if that were the case, it doesn't mean that in actuality he's as good in practice with lightsabers as in the force, we've seen several occasions where people decide to ignite their lightsabers, and choose that route over a force battle, even when they may have a better chance.
You know, LeGenD, I simply don't understand why you can continue to debate; people have often compared you to Nebaris, but realistically, Nebaris is capable of constructing a good argument (when he isn't clouded by bias or simply not wanting to be a jackass). You aren't bound by such "restraints". You simply argue and argue and argue and get beat and get beat and get beat. Then you argue some more.
As far as this fight is concerned, it can go either way. Accounts of Revan seem to imply that he pretty much amazing with the Force and his usage of it. Anakin's power is uncontrolled and lies mostly within his potential (even though he is capable of spectacular feats), and so he lacks Revan's control. However, in certain situations, that is irrelevent. Count Dooku - as Advent has proven - was a supremely powerful Jedi (one of the very best in SW history) and then became a greater Sith Lord, meaning that he advanced in power and overall ability under Darth Sidious. And, yet, look what happened to Dooku in his fight with Anakin? Once a certain point was reached - Dooku's skill, knowledge, and experience was simply made into a joke. He cut through Dooku's defense and wiped him out.
This is what I interpret to be "Anakin at his peak" (aside from him at full potential, in which Revan would be annihilated), and so I do believe that Revan would die a painful, miserable death in a lightsaber fight, or in a situation similar to Dooku's, where his skills are made irrelevent. Revan isn't miles and miles above Dooku, so if we used common logical deduction - if Anakin can render someone of Dooku's caliber (who would not be owned by Revan) a joke (as spoken by the omniscient narrator), then Anakin would do the same to Revan. Granted, it may take more effort, but Revan will die to Anakin in a swordfight, and this is simply the irrefutable case.
However, if Revan plays smart and uses his considerable Force prowess from the beginning, I see him winning.
