ROTS Anakin V.S. KOTOR Revan

Force powers for Dooku against Anakin clearly goes to Dooku but that didn't help Dooku overall

"the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy"- Count Dooku in ROTS novelization...

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You don't care how great in the force one is? Someone missed the Yoda vs. Sidious fight, where Sidious somehow got the upper ground without his saber.

Palpatine put a LOT of distance between him and Yoda. The Senate room helped a lot.

Originally posted by -Silver Falcon-
Both at their peak. The scenario is where Darth Maul battled Obi and Qui-Gon (to make this an epic battle). Who wins?

That room doesn't offer a lot to distance one's self from. Anakin would be all over Revan. The poor little Sith Lord wouldn't be capable of withstanding Anakin's onslaught.

Originally posted by -Silver Falcon-
[B]What? Anakin not even being able to hit Yoda? I know he's fast, but c'mon... I wouldn't say there's nobody in the PT that doesn't even come close because... there's Sidious.

You're talking about the same Sidious that Yoda (for all we know) disarmed in under one minute ?

I'm not sure, but I think they were stated to be equals by the omnicent [sorry if spelled wrong] narrator.

Talking about their force contest and not their lightsaber duel...

And if Anakin is not slightly better than him, [though I do think so] then I would say he is slightly behind, but definitely not leagues behind, as you say.

Since you have no proof for your thoughts...who cares ? Oh wait...

He defeated Dooku with extreme ease in less than 5 minutes, something I doubt Yoda could acheive.

Yoda had Dooku running after 30 seconds and he did beat him once more while levitating some stuff around. So ?

Palpatine described him as being "the most gifted Jedi he has ever met".

Since when does "the most gifted" translate into "the best duellist" ?

Even Mace Windu [who always opposes his actions and greatly distrusts him] says that his skills are exceptional.

The same Mace Windu who rates himself far below Yoda in Shatterpoint as well as in LoE when it comes to lightsaber abilities and force powers ? Great.

And the omniscient narrator would describe Skywalker as:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior [Revenge of the Sith novelization].

The same omniscient narrator who descripes Yoda as an "avatar of the light" and "the most devastating foe the Dark Side has ever seen" ?

Even considered hyperbolic, it undoubtedly tells us that he is incredibly powerful & massively skilled.

And still, according to Lucas, he's not as skilled as Yoda since you have to be Mace Windu or Yoda to challenge Sidious. Notice the clear absence of Anakin's name in that statement.

In less than 15 years, Skywalker mastered Djem So to be able to wield the form with enough skill & grace for Count Dooku to recognize him as being as "fine a one he had ever seen".
And that's obviously a HELL OF A LOT of Jedi, given to the fact that Count Dooku was in the Order for many, many, many years.

That says quite a lot.

Is that once again the same Count Dooku who was creamed by Yoda twice in extremely short duels ? The same Count Dooku who recognizes Yoda as being with so much force power that, should Yoda ever go Dark Side, he would obliterate Sidious with the blink of an eye and pose a threat to the existance of the Galaxy itself ?

Did somebody ever tell you that characters are fallible and that there opinions aren't equal to the absolute and undenieable truth ? Of course Anakin is powerful and a skilled duellist but Yoda would obliterate him in every possible combat scenario, be it a lightsaber fight or a force contest. Because all that Anakin has, so to say, is a vast potential. Yet he totally lacks control over his abilities which is pretty obvious as he even failed to overcome Obi-Wan Kenobi. And you want to tell me that he's better than Yoda ? Based on what ?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This thread has so many post afterwards that post. Read them all.

And we will never know that whether Anakin is better then him in Saber Combat or not because Revan is an unknown in that regard. Still it is said that he was a skilled swordsman.

No one said he wasn't skilled. As good as Revan is by ROTS Anakin is just simply better. O BTW I read them it seems most people didn't share your opinion especially in saber combat. And even if you did renounce that statement it was still a bad display of fanboyism.

you guys put alot of stock into anakin and his saber skills. lets see here's who IS better than him with a lightsaber, yoda, kenobi, dooku, mace, and palpatine.

so whoever treis arguing that anakin better than those poeple is just flat out dumb based on common star wars knowledge.

now revan is my favorite character but in a saber battle i don't think he'd win it's deffinantley a possibility but GL stated in an interview that i'm too lazy to find but if i must find it for you all to verify it's truth i will. anyway GL stated that the PT era of jedi were the golden age of the jedi and that no one was as good as they were in saber combat.

so he pretty much says that the pt jedi are pretty freakin good with a saber, not to say no one stands a chance in saber battle, but that it'd be difficult for everyday jedi back in kotor times to best one. not people like revan, kun, or the ancients.

but revan's mastery of the force is far greater than anakin's in ROTS

Enough with Dooku the fact that Anakin even beat dooku was because sidious instructed dooku to hold back and through the fight

In a cut scene from Ep III after anakin cut off dooku's hands dooku looks and sidious and says "you promised me amnisty" implying that dooku threw the fight because of what sidious told him

Not planning to get seriously involved in this one, but honestly, look at some of the important words in that last one: Cut. Scene. Cut scene. As in "A scene that has been cut from the film".

The thing about scenes that are cut from the film is that those scenes are...Y'know...Not part of the film anymore. Especially when they're directly contradicted by a scene that is in the film. In terms of canon, the scene replacing the scene that was cut >>>>> the scene that was cut.

Originally posted by alterangel
Enough with Dooku the fact that Anakin even beat dooku was because sidious instructed dooku to hold back and through the fight

In a cut scene from Ep III after anakin cut off dooku's hands dooku looks and sidious and says "you promised me amnisty" implying that dooku threw the fight because of what sidious told him

Doku wasn't instructed to lose, in the novel, it clearly shoves that he fought for his very life, meaning he fought his best, just to stay alive and still got mega pwned, don't make stuff up.

in the move novelization dooku's last thought was "Treachery is the way of the Sith" why would he have this thought if he was not fooled by sidious

i am not saying that dooku ment to lose his hands and lose the fight i guess throw was the wrong phrasing, i only mean that dooku was holding back in the beginning of his fight with anakin as per orders of sidious. there is a short conversation between dooku and sidious in the novel that shows that sidious is luring tyrannus into a trap for his new apprentice and never intended dooku to live

even if the scene was cut you can cleary tell by the expression on dooku's face that sooku was just "fooled a trickery and then struck in the throat"

but all i am saying is that there has to be more ammo against revan other than that anakin killed dooku its just been used up alot

we are already clear that anakin is a better duelist than revan but revan was skilled at least enough to hold his own for a time, what it comes down to is force mastery and command of the force in which revan take the cake

There's nobody in the PT who does even come remotely close to his lightsaber abilities. Really

'Nobody' comes 'remotely' close to Yoda's lightsaber abilities? That's a rather unique assessment, Nai. Mace was considered on par with Yoda in terms of power [though he admits not quite his equal] and Sidious was able to give him a run for his money. That there debunks your entire [and ridiculous] assertion that no one remotely comes close to Yoda in swordsmanship.

That's utter bullshit.

You're talking about the same Sidious that Yoda (for all we know) disarmed in under one minute ?

That's not an air-tight defense, Nai. "'For all we know'", he disarmed Sidious in less than a minute, and automatically we're to credit that he did? That's - again - utter bullshit and you know it. Furthermore, though I agree that the script does indicate that Sidious was disarmed, I have already proven how ridiculous the situation he's in. Yoda disarms Sidious, Sidious attacks him with Force lightning, Yoda bends it back in his face. And then - Yoda leaps stops attacking Palpatine and leaps away for reasons unexplained.

Situation: bullshit.

Furthermore, even if we accepted that, you'd have to account for the fact that Sidious managed to put a vast amount of distance between himself and Yoda. An unarmed Sith Lord escaped from a Jedi Master who - according to you - is vastly more skilled than he is as a swordsman and faster than he is in close quarters combat?

I guess the intellectual disparity between Sidious and Yoda is truly vast, and he simply is the greatest fighter in the PT.

Yoda had Dooku running after 30 seconds and he did beat him once more while levitating some stuff around. So ?

If I remember correctly, he didn't actually defeat him, but Dooku did do his typical "distract 'n flee" stint.

The same Count Dooku who recognizes Yoda as being with so much force power that, should Yoda ever go Dark Side, he would obliterate Sidious with the blink of an eye and pose a threat to the existance of the Galaxy itself ?

Where the hell does it say Sidious would be 'obliterated' within a blink of an eye? It says that Sidious himself would be annihilated (and, if we use your own logic, that is shit within itself since Dooku is a fallible third party). And where does it say that he'd be a threat to the existence of the galaxy itself?

this thread was finished alterangel i know you're a noob here but don't revive a thread that hasn't been commented on in 3 days.

Oh joy... All the movie fans are clamouring about while the KotOR fans are frothing at the mouth over this can o' worms.

Quite frankly, no matter how much damn "potential" you say Anakin has, no matter how many times you cite that he's a walking plot device, no matter how many times you sit there and talk about all this hyperbolic bullshit that the RotS novelisation comes out with (And we should never ever trust that piece of work considering it ill-fits the movie itself, which IS canon), he was not able enough to defeat Sidious. He was not able enough to be Obi-Wan.

Revan may be far less known and has far less action scenes on file, but his accomplishments (Which are all we really have to rely on if we choose to keep him as a valid versus character) speak for themselves:

He butchered Mandalore the Ultimate.

He butchered Yusanis the echani duelling god.

He wiped the floor with Malak while the latter had the "high ground" and was sapping strength from the Star Forge and from comatose Jedi left and right.

He butchered every Sith lord, dark jedi, and blaster-toting fool who got in his path.

I'm sorry, but Malak, Yusanis, Mandalore, Bandon, and half of Korriban strike me as being more difficult opponents than Obi-Wan.

Could just be me though.

Could just be me though.

It is.

I have a hard time believing that Malak is Maul's level or Obi-Wan's, in regards to lightsaber ability, that is.

Wasn't able to defeat Sidious? When did he try?

I know you do, but we've been through this before and neither of us have budged an inch.

Maul's good. In fact, I have much more respect for him than I did before; but he's no Malak. Malak had far more saber combat training and expertise (after all, he lived in a time when lightsaber combat was the norm.)... hell, he was even a legend in his own time when it came to lightsaber fighting, like Kavar was. Malak also has a huge bag of Force powers to draw from, such as freezing people in place, draining the life powers of others, having enough ability to harness the Star Forge, etc. He's a Sith Lord and a warrior. Maul's an assassin.

As for Obi-Wan... Well, you can tell it's not a case of bias. I mean, Obi-Wan is my favorite SW character of all time. He's just not up to par.

Again, I fail to see how. Jollyjim's nailed the pro-Maul argument. It's very persuasive.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, I fail to see how. Jollyjim's nailed the pro-Maul argument. It's very persuasive.

Look, as much as I love Revan, Advent's argument really has been irrefutable. The case for Anakin over Revan in terms of lightsaber combat is very strong, and there's no real way around it. We know Revan's force abilities and combat prowess are beyond Anakin, but his saber skills ARE unknown, and so is the epic duel with Malak on the Star Forge. Anakin has everything going for him in terms of lightsaber combat..

Again, I fail to see how. Jollyjim's nailed the pro-Maul argument. It's very persuasive.

Link please?

Look, as much as I love Revan, Advent's argument really has been irrefutable. The case for Anakin over Revan in terms of lightsaber combat is very strong, and there's no real way around it. We know Revan's force abilities and combat prowess are beyond Anakin, but his saber skills ARE unknown, and so is the epic duel with Malak on the Star Forge. Anakin has everything going for him in terms of lightsaber combat..

Advent? Do you have a link for this post? I'd really rather not just take everyone's word for it. KMC Versus tends to snowball when one person manages to baffle the masses with bullshit and then you get people who run around thinking that Darth Sidious can beat Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, and Dooku armed with a ladle.

Quite frankly, I'm very intersted to see what kind of "air-tight" argument everyone has for Anakin.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
[B]I know you do, but we've been through this before and neither of us have budged an inch.

Maul's good. In fact, I have much more respect for him than I did before; but he's no Malak. Malak had far more saber combat training and expertise (after all, he lived in a time when lightsaber combat was the norm.)... hell, he was even a legend in his own time when it came to lightsaber fighting, like Kavar was. Malak also has a huge bag of Force powers to draw from, such as freezing people in place, draining the life powers of others, having enough ability to harness the Star Forge, etc. He's a Sith Lord and a warrior. Maul's an assassin.

Malak, unlike Maul, did not spend his early years learning nothing, and I mean nothing, but how to become the perfect, ruthless killing machine. Palpatine forced Maul into numerous brutal scenarios on a daily basis and didn't hold back whatsoever, either. Maul doesn't favor using the Force in a confrontation, but his defenses with it are up to par, as seen in Shadow Hunter.

Maul is just as much a warrior if not more so, as certainly demonstrated when Anoon Bondara, a Jedi described as having saber abilities that surpass just about every duelist in the entire Jedi Order confronts Maul, only to realize within seconds, that Maul just completely outclasses him.
Maul wasn't considered a legend because secrecy was the only way he stayed alive. However, he faced two men known for being legends in regards to their dueling ability, and neither could so much as give him a small scar.

KMC Versus tends to snowball when one person manages to baffle the masses with bullshit and then you get people who run around thinking that Darth Sidious can beat Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, and Dooku armed with a ladle.

Not fair, Janus. There was a massive following who subscribed to the delusion that Marka Ragnos could beat Darth Sidious, Exar Kun, Count Dooku, Luke, and Luke's mother with... uh... a broken ladle...?