ROTS Anakin V.S. KOTOR Revan

Started by Darth Sexy18 pages

Originally posted by Janus Marius

Advent? Do you have a link for this post? I'd really rather not just take everyone's word for it. KMC Versus tends to snowball when one person manages to baffle the masses with bullshit and then you get people who run around thinking that Darth Sidious can beat Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, and Dooku armed with a ladle.


I'll find it but it wasn't bullshit, it was a nice argument with little room to argue. Revan being an unknown in saber combat helps a lot..
On another note Janus, the ridiculous Kun>Sidious and Ragnos>Sidious(I wish) arguments have been debunked to hell and back. Even I can admit there is MORE than enough evidence to EASILY place Sidious as the most powerful sith lord..

Ragnos>Sidious(I wish)

This always confuses me. Why the wish factor? Ragnos isn't that defined of a character. Wanting his supremacy is without basis to me. 😐

because he's a badass character whose name means "God" in whatever language. Everyone's a fan of sombody.

Maul was trained to be far more then an assassin- Palpatine did everything possible to mold Maul into an absolute warrior all around.

Malak, unlike Maul, did not spend his early years learning nothing, and I mean nothing, but how to become the perfect, ruthless killing machine. Palpatine forced Maul into numerous brutal scenarios on a daily basis and didn't hold back whatsoever, either. Maul doesn't favor using the Force in a confrontation, but his defenses with it are up to par, as seen in Shadow Hunter.

Hm. You're correct in a sense, I did rather gloss over him. But while Maul was a good tool and hired sword for Sidious, I don't see him toppling truly terrible and capable Sith lords. We all know that Maul was more like a prized hound; fed and taught to do his job and nothing more.

But it's been a long time too since I read Shadow Hunter. I'd like to reread it to see if maybe that will change my mind.

Maul is just as much a warrior if not more so, as certainly demonstrated when Anoon Bondara, a Jedi described as having saber abilities that surpass just about every duelist in the entire Jedi Order confronts Maul, only to realize within seconds, that Maul just completely outclasses him.

Anoon is noted as being one of the best jedi duellists at the time of TPM, yes. I'm not sure how far along I'd take that line, as Anoon clearly wasn't a Dooku, Yoda or Mace Windu. Even Cin Drallig, who is noted to be pretty good, is not someone I'd say could properly combat a Sith lord. Let's face it- the PT Jedi hadn't seen one in a thousand years. Malak's Jedi- they just got done fighting them. Lightsabers were the dominant fighting form at the time.

Not fair, Janus. There was a massive following who subscribed to the delusion that Marka Ragnos could beat Darth Sidious, Exar Kun, Count Dooku, Luke, and Luke's mother with... uh... a broken ladle...?

Luke's mother wouldn't require the broken ladle though. Ragnos could just use his scepter to make her a messy blot on the carpetting.

because he's a badass character whose name means "God" in whatever language.

What's the definition of 'badass' in this instance? His 'badass' meter doesn't logically even come remotely close to the guy who: a.) destroyed the Republic, b.) destroyed the Jedi, c.) created the most powerful military force in galactic history, and d.) achieve dominance over the galaxy for ze very first time.

Everyone's a fan of sombody.

Typically, they have a reason to be a fan of somebody, though.

Luke's mother wouldn't require the broken ladle though. Ragnos could just use his scepter to make her a messy blot on the carpetting.

Bullshit. If she can go through the pains of labor and raising an annoying prick like Anakin Skywalker, she sure as hell can kick Jedi and Sith ass any day.

I'll find it but it wasn't bullshit, it was a nice argument with little room to argue. Revan being an unknown in saber combat helps a lot..

I don't get how Revan defeating all those prestiged fighters makes him an unknown, yet people like Anoon, Cin Drallig, Depa and others who have even less screen time and sometimes just a single line of narration giving their abilities credit are "knowns". I mean, really. Where does the bullshit start and where does it stop? People hiss and claw at the idea that narration notes Ragnos and his Sith cronies as being virtual Force demigods, and yet every single line they can gleam to support PT-era Jedi and Sith they build up until it's like a volcano.

On another note Janus, the ridiculous Kun>Sidious and Ragnos>Sidious(I wish) arguments have been debunked to hell and back. Even I can admit there is MORE than enough evidence to EASILY place Sidious as the most powerful sith lord..

So I've heard. Of course, you'll forgive me when I say that you don't strike me as a debating heavy, so I'll believe it when I see it.

And I've been arguing on these boards for a long while now; I know all the old arguments that "debunked" the ancient Sith. Tigers can't really change their stripes, you know.

Well, everyone likes a mysterious character who was possibly VERY powerful. I wouldn't like him as much if they wrote a book about him and made him seem mortal, or how they ruined his character in Jedi Academy 2.


Bullshit. If she can go through the pains of labor and raising an annoying prick like Anakin Skywalker, she sure as hell can kick Jedi and Sith ass any day.

Yeah, but Ragnos had to deal with a whole planet full of Force-using, bastard children with a deep-seated admiration for betrayal.

I have to give him that much.

As an old black guy once said: 'if you build it, they will come'. Here ya go:

Originally posted by jollyjim311
What does it matter exactly if many Jedi fell to his lightsaber? It of course does speak about his dominance, as does his position as second in command. He was logically one of the top dogs around. It only speaks of his dominance during that time period, however. If Bandon were to face Anoon or even someone like Saesee Tiin, he'd be dicked royally. Taken seriously, there is no way to justify Bandon defeating Maul.

* Maul "mastered the lightsaber." The same type that Bandon uses.
* Maul is a Teras Kasi master and uses it in his fighting style.
* Maul dodged an explosion when he only has a "microsecond" to get out of the way.
* Maul survived for a month against legions of Assassin droids who I doubt left him the luxury of sleep.
* Maul learned from Darth "MF'ing" Sidious.
* Maul almost killed the Same Darth "MF'ing" Sidious in a saber duel.
* Maul was confident that he could defeat "any" Jedi he encountered(and well educated about Jedi).
* Maul defeated an energized Qui Gon (Windu's equal) in thirty Seconds and left Obi Wan, when using all his rage, hanging from a pit.
* Maul is "one of the deadliest Sith Apprentices in history."
* Maul dominated over Anoon Bondara who's lightsaber skills were "second to none" (including Yoda), was a master of Teras Kasi, was the Jedi Battle Master, gave easy beatdowns to the likes of Qui Gon, was extremely adaptive (His Padawan Ashat who revealed "strong Force tendencies even as an infant" wished to one day have "one tenth" of Anoon's adeptness.)
* Maul has "far superior darkside knowledge" than Mighella, a powerful Night Sister.
* Maul can "swat blaster bolts away like flies" shot from a very competent Bounty Hunter.
* Maul has spun his lightsaber so fast that it seemed to merge into a "single crimson shield."
* Maul defeated an army of Black Sun thugs, and defeated "seven of the most powerful" people in the Universe in less time than it takes to say it.
* Maul was a "warrior in his prime."

That's just for starters.

Yeah, but Ragnos had to deal with a whole planet full of Force-using, bastard children with a deep-seated admiration for betrayal.

I have to give him that much.

Anakin > a planet full of Force-using, bastard children in terms of painintheassfulness...

Originally posted by Janus Marius
[B]I don't get how Revan defeating all those prestiged fighters makes him an unknown, yet people like Anoon, Cin Drallig, Depa and others who have even less screen time and sometimes just a single line of narration giving their abilities credit are "knowns". I mean, really. Where does the bullshit start and where does it stop? People hiss and claw at the idea that narration notes Ragnos and his Sith cronies as being virtual Force demigods, and yet every single line they can gleam to support PT-era Jedi and Sith they build up until it's like a volcano.

Sorry Janus, but I don't see how Revan defeating all of those "prestiged" fighters weighs in as evidence of Revan's lightsaber prowess, especially when there are god knows how many ways Revan could have defeated those combatants. All it is is speculation.

So I've heard. Of course, you'll forgive me when I say that you don't strike me as a debating heavy, so I'll believe it when I see it.

THat's ok, I don't find any of you ancient sith fans as debating extraordinares or anywhere close, judging by the arguing out of ignorance and constant fanboyism i've so repeatedly witnessed, but we all have our opinions. But I bet I could make a better case for Sidious than you can for Kun or Ragnos..

What's the definition of 'badass' in this instance? His 'badass' meter doesn't logically even come remotely close to the guy who: a.) destroyed the Republic, b.) destroyed the Jedi, c.) created the most powerful military force in galactic history, and d.) achieve dominance over the galaxy for ze very first time.

To be fair, Sidious' sly methods hardly scream out badass, lol, however I agree that Sidious is one hell of an awesome character.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Hm. You're correct in a sense, I did rather gloss over him. But while Maul was a good tool and hired sword for Sidious, I don't see him toppling truly terrible and capable Sith lords. We all know that Maul was more like a prized hound; fed and taught to do his job and nothing more.

But it's been a long time too since I read Shadow Hunter. I'd like to reread it to see if maybe that will change my mind.


By the same instance, Maul was made for the purpose of destroying the top Jedi Masters-and he showed himself capable of that twice over.

Maul is certainly not as overtly terrible and dramatic...he seems less dangerous given his lack of personal ambition and how he's general extremely stoic, but Maul's fighting prowess has been demonstrated as nothing short of amazing....in the comic 'Darth Maul', without sustaining a single injury, Maul separately decimates two fortresses full of defenders and then kill as described as 'the deadliest killers and assassins' in the galaxy....without sustaining one wound.

Despite his personality and lack of ambition, Maul was molded to be a weapon, and that he was good at


Anoon is noted as being one of the best jedi duellists at the time of TPM, yes. I'm not sure how far along I'd take that line, as Anoon clearly wasn't a Dooku, Yoda or Mace Windu. Even Cin Drallig, who is noted to be pretty good, is not someone I'd say could properly combat a Sith lord.

No. However, in both appearances, Anoon is described as one of the best Jedi duelists of the entire order, whose sheer work with blades is apparently 'second to none' (I'll be generous and take that with a grain of salt and refer to it just in terms of swordsmanship abilities sans Force usage in the same, but Anoon is a genuine legend in the Order, and the Battlemaster prior to Cin.


Let's face it- the PT Jedi hadn't seen one in a thousand years. Malak's Jedi- they just got done fighting them. Lightsabers were the dominant fighting form at the time.

Well, in the case of Yoda, that's untrue, but 99.9 percent of the time, yes.

And it's actually a vast misconception there: The Sith War itself with Kun contained very, very little combat with Sith. The people therein were Exar-whose combat therein was with Vodo and Ood...Ulic, and Exar's 20 Apprentices, most of whom did not survive beyond a single mission-exceptions being as follows: Oss Willum, captured and redeemed
Crado, who did absolutely no fighting
Lorian Nod, who abandoned Exar and lived in isolation the rest of his life.
Jolee Bindo and his wife....we know the few surviving apprentices from Kun holed up in the Teta system and died in an overwhelming assault, but The Great Sith war contained very, very little actual force user combat comparatively, so many of the Jedi in the Jedi Civil War were actually younger Jedi who hadn't seen combat, or Masters who hadn't taken part in the Great Sith war save until the final assault on Yavin 4

You can't say it was the norm for the past Jedi since, until the end of the War, very few Jedi saw active combat.

In fairness, there were quite a few other combat situations, but the same is true of the PT Jedi- conflicts like the Stark Hyperspace War, the Yinchorri, Kibh Jeen, Volfe Karkko and the massive Clone Wars, which contained more than a bit of force user to force user combat


Luke's mother wouldn't require the broken ladle though. Ragnos could just use his scepter to make her a messy blot on the carpetting.

This all aside, to clarify my views to you, Janus:
I've never endorsed anything saying Palpatine or Yoda would beat Ragnos and Kun with a broken ladle, that's ridiculous...

Now, however, if you'd like to debate the merits of Yoda or Palp strictly in regards of continuity, by all means tell me and I'll make the thread for us. I'd prefer to do it without insults this time, though-to tell you the truth, the Goebbels remark crossed the line for a variety of reasons.

The only thing that's pretty undeniable is Luke being at the top. Lucas's own words made that really clear.

Read some of the comics. Sidious is CERTAINLY a badass character in every sense of the word.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Well, everyone likes a mysterious character who was possibly VERY powerful.

Hey, I can tell you someone who fits that description better than Ragnos: Plagueis. So, logically, he should be your favorite.

Plagueis... And yes, he's almost up there. COuld be my favorite because he seems to be the greatest mentor in the SW Universe...

Perhaps too good a mentor. Really, if anything Palpatine's memories show Plagueis was one hell of a bad guy

indeed

To be fair, Sidious' sly methods hardly scream out badass, lol, however I agree that Sidious is one hell of an awesome character.

As we've seen, 'badass' is speculative and subjective. Sidious succeeded where the others failed quite miserably, played people for fools for decades, and was a 'warlord' in the truest sense.

Cut 'n dry to me.

It's like saying Lector isn't a badass.

Hm, come to think of it...who has more screentime...Lector in Silence or Palp in Jedi?

Yup.. Sidious made me want to play chess again. What a hero.