Please, Rampant, go back into the woodwork from whence you came, your idiocy really isn't needed.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Good, then there is nothing to argue.
No, there is. Your post seemingly insinuates that Yoda had the upper hand in the duel, because of outside assistance - or at least, that he had some type of 'advantage' on his side. Saying such things like that, even to go so far as to call it a "considerable advantage" wasn't the case, as much is apparent through my post.
It's obvious you, like always, were trying to defend the Count with ridiculous comments, and hints. I also find it comedic at best when you said that Styles had "conveniently forgotten" about the aforementioned excerpt, when you yourself left out several essential details. Including the below facts.
My original point was that Yoda did not 'demolish' Dooku as AC put it.
I really don't care what point you were trying to make, as that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact you tried to pass off your bullshit as something meaningful, as you did.
Dooku's assassin droids did not intefere - but in fairness neither did Obi-Wan and Anakin. So they cancel each other out.
Thanks for missing the entire point, Ox! I'd suggest you take my initial advice.
What does the fact that Tyranus' droids hadn't caused any disturbance during their duel have to do with anything? Oh? What's that? It doesn't?
Now, your first post suggested that somehow the 'Wonderboy', and his master effected the duel in some way. It clearly didn't. Anakin, and Obi-Wan had zero impact on the battle, so why did you bring it up? And, I was making the point that like I said, Tyranus had far more beneficial factors on his side, anyways; also that you obviously didn't read the book.
I'm glad you can indirectly acknowledge your error partially, but get with the program, nothing has changed - inanity still doesn't fly around these parts.
The only real advantage Dooku had was being on Vjun. True, Yoda did not want to kill Dooku, but in retrospect it is heavily implied that Dooku did not want to kill Yoda.
Can you show me a quote to back this up? I don't recall that, not saying it isn't true; but proof? It's rather suspicious saying that a Dark Lord of the Sith wouldn't want to kill his former mentor, even though he had no reason for him to be alive.
Also note that Yoda was not fighting Dooku while holding on to Whirry with the force.
You're right, he wasn't fighting Dooku, Dooku was fighting him. If you actually read the book, or could comprehend simple, and complex sentences, you'd realize that the Count had struck him while he was trying to save Whirry. He didn't have a chance to attack back, as his lightsaber wasn't even drawn, and he was focused on the heavy set woman.
So, if having your opponent somewhat wounded in battle (Yoda had been in pain, as he outright states) isn't an 'advantage', then what is? Causing a distraction that can be capitalized on by the opposition is an unfavorable circumstance in itself. It was a disadvantage because of the outcome.
so again this cannot be seen as a disadvantage on Yoda's part.
See above, yes it is. Simply because you don't know what you're talking about means jack shit.
he was not as heavily disadvantaged as has been implied
Wounded? Check. Outnumbered? Check. Enhanced power? Check.
I didn't say he that all of those factors were detracting from his chances in the duel at hand (though, two of them were), but the whole Jedi as backup ordeal - that you needlessly brought up in an effort to make it seem as if it mattered - wasn't comparative to the outside benefits (droids).
Originally posted by allfg
Oh how I wish Advent was a Bane fan.
That's what makes you so lame. You try to twist logic and everyone has to be a fan. You can't just work with canon and see what makes sense. No, you have to gear it for your favorite character to win. I don't think you realize that you're worse than pretty much everyone here, as far as putting a character (Bane) on a pedestal.
Outnumbered part doesn't really matter, because the droids newer interfered, Dooku was outnumbered on Geonosis by even larger amount, but it didn't matter, because nobody interfered.
He was wounded, but when he saved the women and drew out his lightsaber, the wound didn't cause him any problems with his fighting abilities.
And if Yoda is so much better, he wad easily defeat Dooku on Geonosis, like someone said he would demolish Dooku.
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Outnumbered part doesn't really matter, because the droids newer interfered, Dooku was outnumbered on Geonosis by even larger amount, but it didn't matter, because nobody interfered.
Originally posted by Advent
What does the fact that Tyranus' droids hadn't caused any disturbance during their duel have to do with anything? Oh? What's that? It doesn't?And, I was making the point that like I said, Tyranus had far more beneficial factors on his side, anyways.
But the whole Jedi as backup ordeal - that you needlessly brought up in an effort to make it seem as if it mattered - wasn't comparative to the outside benefits (droids).
Read carefully, and shut the **** up. I was bringing up the fact that even if Anakin and Obi-Wan were available to assist, it didn't compare to what Dooku had as backup (hence, "outside"😉. It was also, like the dumb Ox said, to cancel that out. Furthermore, if you would've read Rampant's post, you'd see that he was wrong in what he wrote, not me. So, I'd advise you to stay out of this, and go back to the Plo Koon thread, you have no place otherwise.
He was wounded, but when he saved the women and drew out his lightsaber, the wound didn't cause him any problems with his fighting abilities.
Do you have any proof of this?
Being in pain is detrimental to one's capabilities, whether it was acknowledged or not. Therefore, it was an added benefit that he was hurt. This is common sense, apparently you two haven't met yet.
And if Yoda is so much better, he wad easily defeat Dooku on Geonosis, like someone said he would demolish Dooku.
Originally posted by Advent
And I'm not arguing that Yoda 'demolished' Dooku, or anything of the sort; merely pointing out that the circumstances were beneficial to Dooku.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yoda has no advantage as far as form goes against Dooku. Dooku knows all about Ataru and it's "Ridiculous acrobatics." He knows Yoda's form inside and out, and still got crushed. Also, it's not just DR, allfg, read the AOTC Novelization (or at least the Dooku vs. Yoda fight).
OK I'm going to ignore the temper tantrum, and address what I put in bold.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
That's what makes you so lame.You try to twist logic and everyone has to be a fan. You can't just work with canon and see what makes sense. No, you have to gear it for your favorite character to win. I don't think you realize that you're worse than pretty much everyone here, as far as putting a character (Bane) on a pedestal.
Way to misread what I posted. Me saying how I wished that Advent was a Bane fan was because she's the best debater on the forum, and it would be pretty cool to have said person arguing for a heavily underrated character. I wasn't simply looking for as many Bane fans as I could fined ,and quite honestly I don't care if someone's a fan or not. Point is, you misread my post. Keep up, jolly fellow.
Oh and you're calling me lame? That would probably have a greater effect if it wasn't for the small fact that I know that all I need to do is mention the R word and you'll burst into tears. That small little fact makes me lol pretty badly actually, so please, continue as you will.
If Dooku was the order's BM, wouldn't he know Yoda's form as well? And if Dooku's form is the form best suited for blade to blade combat, and would be fighting Yoda with blades...then thats not much of an advantage to Yoda. And so what if his form uses more energy, he's more powerful than Dooku and could ultimately destroy Dooku in a battle before getting that tired. For a badass, Dooku sure does flee alot. Why is that if he can kick so much ass? He most likely would have fled from Anakin if he wasn't busy getting pwned.
Originally posted by allfg
OK I'm going to ignore the temper tantrum, and address what I put in bold.Way to misread what I posted. Me saying how I wished that Advent was a Bane fan was because she's the best debater on the forum, and it would be pretty cool to have said person arguing for a heavily underrated character. I wasn't simply looking for as many Bane fans as I could fined ,and quite honestly I don't care if someone's a fan or not. Point is, you misread my post. Keep up, jolly fellow.
Oh and you're calling me lame? That would probably have a greater effect if it wasn't for the small fact that I know that all I need to do is mention the R word and you'll burst into tears. That small little fact makes me lol pretty badly actually, so please, continue as you will.
Ive seen Advent argue for characters that she may not have been huge fans of and her debates are unbiased anyway.
My apologies to Advent, i hadn't read the posts from previous page, because i was lazy.
And for the pain part, Yoda is a Jedi and can channel his concentration to the battle and ignore the pain, its not like Dooku cut his arm off or something like that, he only cut him a little and when the fight was over, Yoda didn't say nothing or complain about the wound, that is as i remember from the book, the wound didn't restrict him or anything.
But i cant go to www.swtimeline.ru, its broken or something, it says something about the password-shit.
Originally posted by Count Makashi
And for the pain part, Yoda is a Jedi and can channel his concentration to the battle and ignore the pain
But the damage is still there, and it has a chance of effecting the capabilities of the individual, regardless of simply pushing it aside. Although an extreme example, when Anakin's limbs were strewn across the banks of Mustafar, he didn't show any real pain, or go into shock (so, it can be assumed he used the Force to preserve himself) as par expected with a normal human being, yet he couldn't do squat, but try and crawl.
its not like Dooku cut his arm off or something like that
Irrelevant.
The slash given by the Count was severe enough to cause him to admit that he was in pain (and not something like getting a check up shot at the doctor, or scrapping your knee). The mere fact that Dooku's opponent had already been damaged goods means he has a greater chance of defeating it. Now, if it were a minuscule cut on the forearm, or something of the sort, then I'd say it doesn't matter, but it wasn't, IIRC.
If you remember, Obi-Wan in AotC fell to two moderate blows (one in the upper arm, and thigh), and he dropped like he was hot. There was no lopping off of limbs, or anything of the sort.
he only cut him a little and when the fight was over, Yoda didn't say nothing or complain about the wound
And that indicates what exactly? It doesn't have to be mentioned, he got hit twice, actually, and didn't so much as utter a word about either after the duel, nor during the second slice. That doesn't necessarily mean he would've gone unhindered in battle.
that is as i remember from the book, the wound didn't restrict him or anything.
It doesn't have to be mentioned, he got hit twice, actually, and didn't so much as utter a word about either after the duel, nor during the second slice. That doesn't necessarily mean he would've gone unhindered in battle.
Originally posted by allfg
Way to misread what I posted. Me saying how I wished that Advent was a Bane fan was because she's the best debater on the forum, and it would be pretty cool to have said person arguing for a heavily underrated character. I wasn't simply looking for as many Bane fans as I could fined ,and quite honestly I don't care if someone's a fan or not. Point is, you misread my post. Keep up, jolly fellow.Oh and you're calling me lame? That would probably have a greater effect if it wasn't for the small fact that I know that all I need to do is mention the R word and you'll burst into tears. That small little fact makes me lol pretty badly actually, so please, continue as you will.
I'm saying that it shouldn't matter if they are a fan or not. Advent looks at things as they are. Wishing someone was biased towards a character seems stupid, is all.
Yes, I'm calling you lame, for your earlier comment. If by the "R" word, you mean rape, then you'd be wrong. However, it's not something to kid around or to joke about, seeing as that's inappropriate. And if anything made me cry over the Internet or on these forums, I'd probably kill myself. I'm not pathetic.
I would reiterate what Advent has just served to you; but it'd be a waste of time. I find it cute how Dooku's fanboy legion lurk in the shadows - waiting to find an opportunity to proclaim their idol's superiority over someone whom he is inferior to. Yoda has never been shown actually attacking Count Dooku with the intent to kill. I mean, really, if that were the case, he could have continued to fight Dooku off on Geonosis (the Republic was curbstomping the CIS forces anyway, and they were reaching the hangar) and either have killed him then or at least brought him into custody. The same goes for the debacle on Vjun. He could have continued to fight Dooku 'til he either killed him or the missile exploded and annihilated them both. In both respects, he has never been shown to want to kill Dooku like he wanted to kill Sidious in Revenge of the Sith.
If I'm not mistaken, Yoda told Mace in AotC that "Captured Dooku must be, or more systems he will gather to his cause" or something of that nature. Hell, in Dark Rendezvous, Yoda went to Vjun in the first place trying to dissuade Dooku from the dark path. Thus proving his priorities with Count Dooku was "capture or redeem", never to kill.
As Advent has described earlier, and as I have preached for months upon endless months, Dooku's advantages were legion. He had the armies and the resources on Vjun, including Ventress. He had the environmental advantage twofold - he knew the territory better than Yoda and the power of the Dark Side was increased on Vjun, enhancing Dooku's abilities beyond the normal state as well as quite possibly inhibiting Yoda's own. Combine that with the fact that Dooku distracted Yoda with Force-tossing a woman out of a window and then attacking Yoda - scoring a hit - he was still unable to beat him in single combat.
In fact, if you'd like to get technical, Dooku - despite his arrogance - knew that the likelihood of Yoda beating him was possible enough that he had a contingency missile placed in orbit to crash-land on that very location, just in case.
Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's superior. Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's equal. In every single way, he is weaker and lesser. Now, I'd just hate to see what an "unrestrained" Yoda (in the lieu of his fight with Sidious) would do to Count Dooku in a duel.
Use your imagination.
Originally posted by Gideon
I would reiterate what Advent has just served to you; but it'd be a waste of time. I find it cute how Dooku's fanboy legion lurk in the shadows - waiting to find an opportunity to proclaim their idol's superiority over someone whom he is inferior to. Yoda has never been shown actually attacking Count Dooku with the intent to kill. I mean, really, if that were the case, he could have continued to fight Dooku off on Geonosis (the Republic was curbstomping the CIS forces anyway, and they were reaching the hangar) and either have killed him then or at least brought him into custody. The same goes for the debacle on Vjun. He could have continued to fight Dooku 'til he either killed him or the missile exploded and annihilated them both. In both respects, he has never been shown to want to kill Dooku like he wanted to kill Sidious in Revenge of the Sith.If I'm not mistaken, Yoda told Mace in AotC that "[B]Captured
Dooku must be, or more systems he will gather to his cause" or something of that nature. Hell, in Dark Rendezvous, Yoda went to Vjun in the first place trying to dissuade Dooku from the dark path. Thus proving his priorities with Count Dooku was "capture or redeem", never to kill.As Advent has described earlier, and as I have preached for months upon endless months, Dooku's advantages were legion. He had the armies and the resources on Vjun, including Ventress. He had the environmental advantage twofold - he knew the territory better than Yoda and the power of the Dark Side was increased on Vjun, enhancing Dooku's abilities beyond the normal state as well as quite possibly inhibiting Yoda's own. Combine that with the fact that Dooku distracted Yoda with Force-tossing a woman out of a window and then attacking Yoda - scoring a hit - he was still unable to beat him in single combat.
In fact, if you'd like to get technical, Dooku - despite his arrogance - knew that the likelihood of Yoda beating him was possible enough that he had a contingency missile placed in orbit to crash-land on that very location, just in case.
Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's superior. Dooku is - in no way - Yoda's equal. In every single way, he is weaker and lesser. Now, I'd just hate to see what an "unrestrained" Yoda (in the lieu of his fight with Sidious) would do to Count Dooku in a duel.
Use your imagination. [/B]
Luke injured Vader in their fight in ESB in the shoulder, i knew its a poor argument, Vader was so much superior to Luke back then and Vader had protection from the armor but he still yelled out pain. Luke was shoot in the hand in ROTJ on Jabbas boat and he still defeated the mercenaries, who wore allot weaker then Luke. In EU Vader goes against 8 Jedi and is severely injured, even his hand was cut of(wrist) and he still gathered enough concentration to Force grip a Jedi master that his troopers could shoot and he grabbed an object and throw it to another Jedi, trough his chest, killing him. I would post pictures from the comic, but sw.timeline.ru isn't working.
I admit that wound on Yoda was a small disadvantage, but just very small.
And this is for Gideon, i never once , not once said Dooku is better then Yoda or that he is his equal. I admitted on several occasions that Yoda is better- Yoda is better, happy.
Originally posted by vader11
Yes, Yoda would probably pwn Dooku in a all-round duel. But in a pure saber dual, Yoda couldn't pwn Dooku, but Yoda still win at last.
WTF? Since when has Yoda EVER fought Dooku without using a saber in a battle? NEVER.
When has Yoda shown to be alot superior even when not trying to hurt him? In saber combat....
@ Makashi-
Luke when his hand was cut off, he was finished, no more fighting for him.
Vader had a somewhat resistant suit to lightsabers, of course just a budge with a lightsaber won't hurt him much at all.
Luke was shot in his metal hand, thus he did not feel much pain at all.
Again, Vader had a suit. What they cut off were already cut off before, they only cut off metal parts.
And I guess you missed the part in AOTC, where Obi is only briefly TOUCHED by Dooku's blade on his leg and arm, and he goes down for the rest of the fight. That kind of wound was what Yoda sustained, yet he continued to actually beat Dooku.