Originally posted by Kenny16
I don't know if I want to now, T.Maria said it made me look at little gay. So I'm thinking of getting a big marching drum on mu back, cymbols on my knees, a mouth organ and anything else those one-man-bands have instead!!
Sings:
"Cause I'm a one man baaaaaaaaaand!
And nobody else can understaaaaaaaand!!!" 😄
NO matter what you do, you'll still look slightly bent... 😂 💃
oh, im on a roll lol! 😄
You throw me the balls, and ill knock them right back at you 😉 😛 😂
Lovethemtigers,
Personally i loved it!! 😄
You made ALOT of valid points.
Anyone who apposes to your views should now civily state their own theories, and then a nice discussion can commence...instead of the arguments that we have had here lately, that should be left at the door where they belong...
*whispers to kenny16*
Now would be a good time to play that violin.... 😱
After reading that hogswash, I gotta bang the drum on this, or clap the tambourine....
You can't just list 30 interactions and tiny things between Jack and Elizabeth as evidence of their pending relationship.
Gibbs says "Jack is vexed"? He could have 101 things on his mind. Like "How do I get rid of these craps?"
Tia Dalma saying about Jack not know what he wants, perhaps Jack is sick of running, he doesn't want his crew in danger or he wants to be a good man......
I suppose the reason I fight all the J/E Shippers is that every possibility is immediately twisted to be evidence towards a J/E union. Without looking at the other possible options.
For example. In the leaked script, doesn't Will become Captain of the BP? Which could, and I mean COULD (as in not definite) mean he doesn't become Captain of the FD. What evidence have we got that Will does become Captain of the FD, besides two seconds of him standing next to the wheel in the trailer? The toy called "Captain Will Turner", well that could refer to him becoming captain of the BP....
Thats exploring possibilities, not just assuming Jack and Elizabeth will get together.
I'm sorry, but it's tambourine time.....
Originally posted by Kenny16
After reading that hogswash, I gotta bang the drum on this, or clap the tambourine....You can't just list 30 interactions and tiny things between Jack and Elizabeth as evidence of their pending relationship.
Gibbs says "Jack is vexed"? He could have 101 things on his mind. Like "How do I get rid of these craps?"
Tia Dalma saying about Jack not know what he wants, perhaps Jack is sick of running, he doesn't want his crew in danger or he wants to be a good man......
I suppose the reason I fight all the J/E Shippers is that every possibility is immediately twisted to be evidence towards a J/E union. Without looking at the other possible options.
For example. In the leaked script, doesn't Will become Captain of the BP? Which could, and I mean COULD (as in not definite) mean he doesn't become Captain of the FD. What evidence have we got that Will does become Captain of the FD, besides two seconds of him standing next to the wheel in the trailer? The toy called "Captain Will Turner", well that could refer to him becoming captain of the BP....
Thats exploring possibilities, not just assuming Jack and Elizabeth will get together.
I'm sorry, but it's tambourine time.....
if you bang that thing one more time, then i swear on pain of death that i will shove it somewhere that will be hard to remove it from.... 🙄 😄
I may be a 'dillusional' J/E shipper, but i only became on AFTER seeing DMC.
I never saw a spoiler, i didnt post on here, and i heard nothing about the film until after i came home from bulgaria.
So as i was watching it, i found it really odd that jack and liz were acting the way they were with eachother...
To me they were flirting, and there was definately something there 😄
Not to change the subject....well, I won't lie. I'm changing the subject because the last few pages have gotten on my nerves. I thought this was the INVESTIGATING thread, people! Don't let people get you down. We go off on a lot of tangents, but are trying to figure AWE and this whole series out, Kenny. Don't be too hard on passionate people.
I have this pic because there's always speculation whether Tia is good or bad, on the pirates side, Beckett's side, her own side, etc. This is near the end and she does seem very, very sympathetic to what Will is going through. It may be an act, but look at her face and if you have the film, watch it. It sounds like sincerity to me.
Oy, can we please stop talking about shipping and the omg!ten million little moments that if you look at them while the moon is full and slow down the scene while hopping backwards on one leg while singing "It's a Small World" (while naked) that you could somehow manage to construe that it is deep symoblism of J/E's deep lurve for each other?
Please? Before I go even crazier than I already obviously am? The movie is not all about shipping. I'd like to, you know, actually discuss character development and plot development that does not entirely depend on whether Jack and Liz want to hop into bed or if Elizabeth and Will rip each others clothes off and have sex during the battle.
SavvySparrow brought up a fun discussion on sacrifice. How about we discuss that? And let's try to *gasp* discuss it without talking about shipping?
Will: Well, to start off with, I think Will sacrifices his relationship with almost everyone at some point during AWE. He feels he has nothing left except his promise to his father, so he is going to throw himself into that project wholly, and not worry about how others feel about him.
This is actually a very interesting thing to look at, because if he becomes captain of the Flying Dutchman, his relationship with all those people would change vastly anyway. The living and the undead don't mingle very well together.
Also, one thing that is never really touched on, is that Will would be sacrificing his identity to be captain of the Dutchman. He isn't really a pirate, and no longer a blacksmith. He'd be a leader, but at the same time, he'd also be serving others by helping them to move on when they die at sea. Is he going to remain "Will", or will he simply be lost to the identity of being captain of a cursed ship?
Ok, now someone else try a different character. 😄
Willo: You are right, Tia does look sympathetic toward Will, but I'm still suspicious of her, because I think she's really pushing Will toward his "destiny" (which makes me suspicious of how much is really destiny, and how much things would have turn out differently if Tia would leave the poor man alone). It'd be nice to think of Tia as being nice to Will, who could certainly use some cheering up himself. 😄
Sadly, I agree with Surreal ladies. Don't get me wrong, I could go on for hours about the great shipping debate. But we have sort of gotten off track from the initial purpose of the thread, which was to piece together AWE as a whole.
Kenny: Bang, clap, slap the tambourine all you want, but Will does in fact become Captain of the Flying Dutchman. Not only does the toy specifically state that he's Captain of the Dutchman, not the Pearl, but there is a portion of the script at the end of the movie in which Will is the Captain of the FD. So, if you're going to play something, play the quiet game.
Willow: She's sympathetic, but I'm still suspicious of her. The minute she saw that Will was softening towards Elizabeth, i.e. which may potentially distract him from his "destiny", she threw out the idea of rescuing Jack from World's End. I've changed my mind about her possibly manipulating the fates of our key players, but I'm not entirely convinced she won't use the situation to her advantage. In a way, she already has.
Ok, now back to the topic at hand. The question was: what sorts of sacrifices do any of the characters make and why.
I think you're spot on about a lot of what Will sacrifices Surreal. His becoming Captain of the Dutchman will put a strain on his relationships with those people who are living. Whether they remain living is yet to be seen 😉. However, I disagree with what you said about Will's sacrificing his identity to be Captain. While the man who was William Turner, the modest, humble, soft spoken Blacksmith is very much a part of who Will is, it's not all that he is. I think the arch of Will's character is that he is a natural Captain, and a natural Pirate. When I say Pirate, I mean a pirate as Bootstrap would define it i.e. Pirate and a good man. He's just the last to recognize his capabilities. Will's sort of the dark horse of the story in that I don't believe he'll truly come into his own until AWE. He sort of has to mature into the role of Captain, if that makes any sense. If it doesn't, I'll try to explain what I mean later.
Ok, sacrifices and other characters. Since Surreal took Will, I guess I'll take Jack.
Similarly, Jack also seems to be sacrificing the relationships he's developed with his friends left and right. I'm speaking purely from an alliance standpoint, not a shipping one. Jack is a vindictive character; look at the grudge he carried against Barbossa for all those years. (Not that he didn't deserve it). In order to satisfy that need to retaliate, he winds up betraying every friend/pirate he's ever known to Beckett. It's betray or wind up betrayed and in the locker with a bunch of crabs. While Jack isn't necessarily a man of extreme principle like Will, he does have a few values he doesn't seem to cross in the other two movies. But in AWE, it seems as though in order to convince himself that he's not the good man we saw at the end of DMC, he acts contrary to that, and sacrifices what few principles he has.
And if you're of the mind that Jack is the person who has the heart at the end of AWE and encourages Will to stab it to save his life, Jack sacrifices his own chance at redemption to save Will's life. So, again limiting his love for freedom to save the lives of others.
I would also venture a wager that Jack sacrifices the Pearl again, but not out of choice.
Originally posted by Kenny16
I don't know if I want to now, T.Maria said it made me look at little gay. So I'm thinking of getting a big marching drum on mu back, cymbols on my knees, a mouth organ and anything else those one-man-bands have instead!!
yeah...hadn't thought of that...but it does seem very unmasculine to play a tamborine...not sure about the cymbols between your knees 😆
the only instruments that I can think are masculine are the guitar and the trumpet, and trumbone....and maybe the drum...yeah, the drum works...get rid of the tamborine....
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Oy, can we please stop talking about shipping and the omg!ten million little moments that if you look at them while the moon is full and slow down the scene while hopping backwards on one leg while singing "It's a Small World" (while naked) that you could somehow manage to construe that it is deep symoblism of J/E's deep lurve for each other?Please? Before I go even crazier than I already obviously am? The movie is not all about shipping. I'd like to, you know, actually discuss character development and plot development that does not entirely depend on whether Jack and Liz want to hop into bed or if Elizabeth and Will rip each others clothes off and have sex during the battle.
[b]SavvySparrow
brought up a fun discussion on sacrifice. How about we discuss that? And let's try to *gasp* discuss it without talking about shipping?Will: Well, to start off with, I think Will sacrifices his relationship with almost everyone at some point during AWE. He feels he has nothing left except his promise to his father, so he is going to throw himself into that project wholly, and not worry about how others feel about him.
This is actually a very interesting thing to look at, because if he becomes captain of the Flying Dutchman, his relationship with all those people would change vastly anyway. The living and the undead don't mingle very well together.
Also, one thing that is never really touched on, is that Will would be sacrificing his identity to be captain of the Dutchman. He isn't really a pirate, and no longer a blacksmith. He'd be a leader, but at the same time, he'd also be serving others by helping them to move on when they die at sea. Is he going to remain "Will", or will he simply be lost to the identity of being captain of a cursed ship?
Ok, now someone else try a different character. 😄
Willo: You are right, Tia does look sympathetic toward Will, but I'm still suspicious of her, because I think she's really pushing Will toward his "destiny" (which makes me suspicious of how much is really destiny, and how much things would have turn out differently if Tia would leave the poor man alone). It'd be nice to think of Tia as being nice to Will, who could certainly use some cheering up himself. 😄 [/B]
okay...I'll stop pointing out the obvious...sorry...and the moon isn't out and I'm not hopping on one foot...it's all there on the screen...oh well...maybe I should walk off playing the tamborine....
I don't really know what to think about Tia...she does look sympathetic in that picture...but it also seems she is pushing Will toward his destiny...who knows...I'm really getting a headache from all this...
and when this is all over and done with..it is what it is...just a movie....
Just a movie....just a movie..I keep trying to tell myself that, but it's not working.....
I'm sorry Surreal...you don't see J/e and I don't see W/E...and my lists of things was not a shipping thing..it's things that are in black and white in the movie...that ted and terry point out...I'm sorry if the writers are pointing these things out that don't seem to agree with you..
And Kenny..sorry but the "vexed" line by Jack is foreshadowing the next talk about being vexed...or else they would have used another line....
sometimes I wonder if you guys are wearing "Will Colored Glasses"....
Anyways...it doesn't matter really....the fact of the matter is ...Johnny Depp is back again, for perhaps the last time, as Captain jack Sparrow...and the Pirates and their future are at stake....and what will Jack be willing to sacrifice....Willo, I agree...the entire movie...just as always, Jack is fighting his good side.....in fact, so much so, that he does things Jack wouldn't normally do..but I don't blame him..he's trying to look out for himself..because every time he has shown his good side, someone uses it against him, so who can blame him for being a little more cynical coming out of the locker..he doesn't return to the locker and the weird crabs....who does he betray to Beckett? Barbossa? Will? Pentel? Ragetti? who else??? Where is the script on that part.....Tia? cuz if it's all of them...they deserve it...they've all done bad things to jack themselves.....
So who knows maybe I do have on "jack" colored glasses Kenny...and I like it that way....
Savvy: Ooh, good point about Will. I think what I was really trying to write, but worded very poorly, was that Will could eventually lose who he is to being captain of the dutchman, especially if (and in my opinion, this is a big "if"😉 Jack and Elizabeth do end up together. Would Will become lost in his role as captain, as Davy Jones did?
I liked what you said about Jack's sacrifices. Do you think he will have to sacrifice anything in order to regain the trust of those he's hurt (specifically, Will and Elizabeth)? Once again, I'm not looking at it from a shipping point of view, but he used both of them terribly in DMC, even though they trusted him to do right by them. In AWE, if he betrays them again, how difficult do you think it would be for him to regain their trust, or do you think that the bond between the trio is enough that they'll join back together seamlessly?
EDIT: lovethemtigers: It isn't all black and white. You have once again managed to disregard what the writers have said about W/E in favor of J/E. I can't help it if that's what you want to see; we'll have to agree to disagree, but mate, please just stop talking about shipping for a bit. There's lots of other fun things to talk about besides how hot J/E are. 😛
Originally posted by katelovespirate
have the shipping wars begun again? LOL. Oh gee. Norribeth flag of truce and neutrality going up now! 🙂
not so much war, as a nuclear threat....
but give it time and the bombs should start dropping anytime now.... 🙄
nah, i think its jst because its getting closer to the release date...spoilers are coming, the trailer is out in the open...THE END IS NIGH!!!!!
Originally posted by T.Maria
not so much war, as a nuclear threat....but give it time and the bombs should start dropping anytime now.... 🙄
nah, i think its jst because its getting closer to the release date...spoilers are coming, the trailer is out in the open...THE END IS NIGH!!!!!
That reminds me.. but I'm saving it for the week the movie comes out 😄
something i made 🙂