Thor vs. Wonder Woman

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Diana won in Sacrifice, though even Rucka admitted that his opinion on Superman vs. Wonder Woman (that he was more powerful, but she had a slight edge in a 1v1) was in the decided minority. I don't agree with your depiction of the DoomSuperman fight at all, though. She was shown to be much less powerful in that fight, needed help and a distraction to win, and Superman wasn't thinking clearly.

And he was also, y'know, transformed to be doomsday-y, cover-with bone, more muscle than normal form ^^

Also he had help- Silver Swan stole her lasso early on to prevent an easier win.

And Superman has many, many showings where it is flat out stated Diana is #2 to him.

Exactly. She's number 2 in his eyes, not Captain Marvel or Martian Manhunter or so on.

Wonder Woman is less powerful, but close enough that tactics and magic hax can get some wins.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
What's Nu52 superman done that puts him above Surfer in your opinion?

Forum mode surfer rapes him though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
She barely did better, maybe even worse depending on who you ask, then Orion fighting as a brick. The loss of protection from removing her bracers (Although they wouldn't really stand up that much to Mjolnir based on how they broke)

Yea, the lack of the block-all bracers is a big loss. She probably can't form an aegis shield against a godblast either.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Can't c pic clearly but isn't that a God bullet

Now that I think about it that probably doesn't help cos I guess an implied sentient God hammer would probably be greater than love God bullet

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Can't c pic clearly but isn't that a God bullet

Yes.

Classic WW's bracers had no problem with god weapons and attacks of all sorts, so a big change.

Thor wins, solidly.

Can someone answer this for me. In a one on one fight, has Diana lose to anyone Herald level.?

Originally posted by Q99
Yes.

Classic WW's bracers had no problem with god weapons and attacks of all sorts, so a big change.

A very disappointing one.

Then again, it doesn't seem like much of Az's work is finding its way into the rest of DCU. I can only hope that is one element that gets left out.

Ww wins. More skilled and much faster. Lasso can win in one shot.

over

Originally posted by Q99
Yes.

Classic WW's bracers had no problem with god weapons and attacks of all sorts, so a big change.

Would be cool if there was a limit to how much they can deflect. As in lets suppose she tanks a godblast. The attack is nullified, her main defense is destroyed but since she is without her bracers she gets that amp of her's for a can of whoop ass.

Exactly. It might be a slight change, but it is still just one showing. Even Cap's shield has been busted. It still stops Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Q99
And he was also, y'know, transformed to be doomsday-y, cover-with bone, more muscle than normal form ^^

Also he had help- Silver Swan stole her lasso early on to prevent an easier win.

There is nothing about him being amped physically in that issue. The Doomsday-like cosmetic changes are just a magical manifestation of his new bestial personal and unleashed rage. When Diana remarks on his strength, she isn't surprised by him being stronger than normal. She says she forgot how strong he was.

Any help by Swan is more than compensated for by Superman fighting like a mindless beast--something Diana clearly capitalizes on to survive. Nothing in that fight suggests Diana would win, or even draw, a fair fight with a smart Superman. This isn't evidence for Diana being equal to Clark in a fight.

Sacrfice, however, is. Though what I find weird about that fight is how much ambiguity it introduced. I spoke to Rucca directly on a rather obscure message board (might have been his website or blog) just a short time before that fight came out. Rucca was very straightforward in his opinion that Superman is more powerful than Diana, and overall more formidable in most kinds of situations (fighting robots, big groups with varied power sets, space armadas, etc.). But he thought that her martial skills and equipment were very effective in 1 on 1, primarily physical fights, between humanoid opponents--situations that martial arts are ideal for. Thus he felt Diana had a slight edge n a straight 1 on 1 fight versus Superman. I naturally tend to interpret the fight in Sacrifice in light of those comments--and give him the benefit of the doubt. But I find it curious why in the end he didn't write a fight that gave Diana an unambiguous victory. Having her pass out for a bit, and having Superman think she was Doomsday (who doesn't have weapons or fight like she does) introduces ambiguity. So why he didn't give her a totally clean win evades me. Maybe editorial got involved?

Originally posted by Q99
And he was also, y'know, transformed to be doomsday-y, cover-with bone, more muscle than normal form ^^

Also he had help- Silver Swan stole her lasso early on to prevent an easier win.

Exactly. She's number 2 in his eyes, not Captain Marvel or Martian Manhunter or so on.

Wonder Woman is less powerful, but close enough that tactics and magic hax can get some wins.

Superman calling wonder woman second in line isn't such a compliment. He has flat out said that Cap is his equal under the same writer Joe Kelly just 7 issues later.

Yeah, I don't know why people think that was a Wonder Woman win. Sacrifice is the only WW win.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
There is nothing about him being amped physically in that issue. The Doomsday-like cosmetic changes are just a magical manifestation of his new bestial personal and unleashed rage. When Diana remarks on his strength, she isn't surprised by him being stronger than normal. She says she forgot how strong he was.

Any help by Swan is more than compensated for by Superman fighting like a mindless beast--something Diana clearly capitalizes on to survive. Nothing in that fight suggests Diana would win, or even draw, a fair fight with a smart Superman. This isn't evidence for Diana being equal to Clark in a fight.

Sacrfice, however, is. Though what I find weird about that fight is how much ambiguity it introduced. I spoke to Rucca directly on a rather obscure message board (might have been his website or blog) just a short time before that fight came out. Rucca was very straightforward in his opinion that Superman is more powerful than Diana, and overall more formidable in most kinds of situations (fighting robots, big groups with varied power sets, space armadas, etc.). But he thought that her martial skills and equipment were very effective in 1 on 1, primarily physical fights, between humanoid opponents--situations that martial arts are ideal for. Thus he felt Diana had a slight edge n a straight 1 on 1 fight versus Superman. I naturally tend to interpret the fight in Sacrifice in light of those comments--and give him the benefit of the doubt. But I find it curious why in the end he didn't write a fight that gave Diana an unambiguous victory. Having her pass out for a bit, and having Superman think she was Doomsday (who doesn't have weapons or fight like she does) introduces ambiguity. So why he didn't give her a totally clean win evades me. Maybe editorial got involved?

Superman vs Replikon who had the powers of whole JLA.

If rucka thought Wonder Woman had an edge against superman in h2h, he didn't show it in the comics. Superman oneshotted her, broke her arm like a twig and all she did was knock him down using his weak points and ran away.

Originally posted by h1a8
actually we don't know the nature of that bullet. So we can't say that her bracers are weaker. The bullet could be something they could penetrate anything in the universe.

Do you have any evidence that would indicate such a thing, or are you just making things up that have no basis in the comics?

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Yeah, I don't know why people think that was a Wonder Woman win. Sacrifice is the only WW win.

Originally posted by Q99
But fun fact: Wonder Woman (or at least pre-Nu52) has a better track record against Superman than CM does. CM's never won a strait fight, he's either done a suckerpunch, got a draw, or lost. WW both pulled a Tiara win in the end in Sacrifice, and submitted Doomsdayified Superman with her lasso.

There's equal in general tier, and there's precisely equal. Wonder Woman and Superman are both equals in the same general tier sense, as is Gladiator and Martian Manhunter and Beta Ray Bill and such. Wonder Woman isn't precisely equal, but she's general tier, and outmatches several character who are also in the same general tier.