Ryu Hayabusa vs Urien and Gill

Started by Eclipse_XII9 pages

Originally posted by King Nothing
C'mon Eclipse, the guy parted a ocean, the sky, and a mountain. He only needs to exert this power a few dozen times to end the world. Not to mention, he was no where near his full power when he accomplished these feats.

Also,there is also evidence that Gill can avoid destruction of the world seeing as how he is said to be able to save it and create his own paradise, impervious to worldly destruction. The evidence of Gill destroying the world is as plain as day, he can't do it all at once but he can. The time it takes for VE to do these feats is not specified.

Parting the ocean and parting the sky, let alone parting a mountain is nothing compared to splitting a planet, and until anything says Gill can actually destroy the world in however way he can, I'm holding it as bullshit. Splitting the Earth is destroying the Earth. Parting the sea/ocean/mountains is not. By that logic we can say Gouki can destroy the Earth seeing as he can split a mountain with his fist, and we all know that is bs.

As for the time not being specified, splitting the Earth could mean splitting it in however many parts it could be split into. So not only is it not known how long it took Vigoor to pull the feat off but it's not known how many different pieces he broke apart the Earth into. All this is true in addiction to the fact the Emperor possesses not only Vigoor's power but as well as the rest of the evil dieties' power, and the Dark Dragon's, according to the text I just gave.

Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
Parting the ocean and parting the sky, let alone parting a mountain is nothing compared to splitting a planet, and until anything says Gill can actually destroy the world in however way he can, I'm holding it as bullshit. Splitting the Earth is destroying the Earth. Parting the sea/ocean/mountains is not. By that logic we can say Gouki can destroy the Earth seeing as he can split a mountain with his fist, and we all know that is bs.

As for the time not being specified, splitting the Earth could mean splitting it in however many parts it could be split into. So not only is it not known how long it took Vigoor to pull the feat off but it's not known how many different pieces he broke apart the Earth into. All this is true in addiction to the fact the Emperor possesses not only Vigoor's power but as well as the rest of the evil dieties' power, and the Dark Dragon's, according to the text I just gave.

For all we know, it could have took 500 years for the earth to split completely apart.

Now we do know that Gill parted an ocean, a mountain, the sky, basically making paradise with a flick of his hand instantaneously. And within a few seconds.

Originally posted by King Nothing
For all we know, it could have took 500 years for the earth to split completely apart.

Now we do know that Gill parted an ocean, a mountain, the sky, basically making paradise with a flick of his hand instantaneously. And within a few seconds.

When Gill's powerful enough to break apart a planet, call me. 😉

Might I mention once again the Emperor is more powerful than Vigoor...

Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
When Gill's powerful enough to break apart a planet, call me 😉

Might I mention once again the Emperor is more powerful than Vigoor...

When I get proof that he destroyed the planet instantly, I see no use in participating this debate. My point has been made several times over.

Originally posted by King Nothing
When I get proof that he destroyed the planet instantly, I see no use in participating this debate. My point has been made several times over.
When did I say he would destroy the planet instantly, point being is Vigoor is powerful enough to destroy a planet as it's been proven several times, given how ever much time he needs. I don't care what shit Gill can do with a flick of his hand. Show proof that he can destroy the Earth in however much time by breaking it apart and not by, parting the sea or a mountain. And I reiterate, the Emperor possessed more power than Vigoor alone, since he was infused with the power of all the evil deities as well as the Dark Dragon's.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
The TDS was never said to be created to counter the upper echelon of the greater fiends. It was only stated to rival and surpass in power the Dark Dragon blade.

I'm aware of that, but it inadvertantly does allow ryu the power to destroy the greater fiends. He went from stalemating alma, to defeating nicchae and ishtaros as a team.

Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-Vigoor is not the Holy Vigoor Emperor 😬

Yes, the Vigoor Emperor and the Holy Emperor are the same. The Holy Emperor just has a poorly defined power up and a title change. It's in plain text from the very source you hold in such regard.

Vigoor is the Demon of Destruction and the Deity who creates history; when the decadence of this world has piled up, he will return in a blaze of all-destroying flame and recreate the world. Chaos, like the floods on the banks of a great river, will fulfill this world once again, and we will be the first recipients of this fulfillment. Evolution has and always will begin from here, the land of Vigoor. It has been several hundred years, since the Supreme Fiend Gogohn established what would eventually become the Vigoor Empire here on these lands.

If a new warrior of the Dragon Lineage shall appear, the Holy Emperor shall be infused with the power of the Evil Deities. After seven days, from the unity of His Majesty with the Dark Dragon once again, we Fiends will be blessed with an exquisite harmony.

Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-Those aren't the evil deities smart guy. They are the 13 dragons the Deity of Creation spawned to wage war against Vigoor and his spawn of evil deities.

I never once conflated the dragons and the dieties.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
- 😆 No offense or anything but you do know that the Dark Dragon at that time (which is the dawn of history according to the prologue) is absolutley NOTHING compared to how powerful the Dark Dragon was by the end of NG? All this time it has been growing in power for eons. Murai possessed the Dark Dragon at it's highest state of power.

No evidence exists to prove an increase in the Dark Dragon's power. Speculating it is stronger merely due to the passage of time is just that. Speculation. Stop it. It's irrational.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-Don't leave things out, such as this: However, in that age of chaos all of the bloodlines of Ancient tribes were mixed, and the form and nature of the Ancients has been carried on by us, the Fiends.

I omitted the passage due to it's irrelevancy.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
Knowing that, those are no ordinary humans, as they are ancestors of Ryu, Doku, Rachel, Alma, Nicchae, Ishtaros, Marbus, and all the rest of the fiends in NG.

Again, no proof exists showing their ancestors to be more powerful than they are.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-Vigoor is not = Emperor. The Emperor w/Power of the evil deities + the Dark Dragon >> Vigoor alone.

In theory maybe, but the Holy Emperor has absolutey no feats to prove he is more powerful than Vigoor.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-Yeah, an indefinite amount of time. It took a matter of seconds to turn a seemingly endless garden into a hellish battleground by just being present. Hayabusa made a last second action that saved himself from melting in molten rock.

This is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-Which took a matter of seconds to do and this doesn't counter the fact that Vigoor alone can split the Earth given however much time he needs, whereas Gill can't unless something says that he can. Emperor's >> Vigoor's considering he/she's not only infused with Vigoor's power but with all the evil deities', and the Dark Dragon's.

You allow hype to cloud your judgment. The Holy Emperor has yet to prove himself more powerful than Vigoor.

The True Dragon Sword also won't give any bonus against Gill or Urien. Hayabusa may not even be able to cut them.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Yes, the Vigoor Emperor and the Holy Emperor are the same. The Holy Emperor just has a poorly defined power up and a title change. It's in plain text from the very source you hold in such regard.

[b]Vigoor is the Demon of Destruction and the Deity who creates history; when the decadence of this world has piled up, he will return in a blaze of all-destroying flame and recreate the world. Chaos, like the floods on the banks of a great river, will fulfill this world once again, and we will be the first recipients of this fulfillment. Evolution has and always will begin from here, the land of Vigoor. It has been several hundred years, since the Supreme Fiend Gogohn established what would eventually become the Vigoor Empire here on these lands.

If a new warrior of the Dragon Lineage shall appear, the Holy Emperor shall be infused with the power of the Evil Deities. After seven days, from the unity of His Majesty with the Dark Dragon once again, we Fiends will be blessed with an exquisite harmony.

I never once conflated the dragons and the dieties.

No evidence exists to prove an increase in the Dark Dragon's power. Speculating it is stronger merely due to the passage of time is just that. Speculation. Stop it. It's irrational.

I omitted the passage due to it's irrelevancy.

Again, no proof exists showing their ancestors to be more powerful than they are.

In theory maybe, but the Holy Emperor has absolutey no feats to prove he is more powerful than Vigoor.

This is irrelevant.

You allow hype to cloud your judgment. The Holy Emperor has yet to prove himself more powerful than Vigoor.

The True Dragon Sword also won't give any bonus against Gill or Urien. Hayabusa may not even be able to cut them. [/B]

-The version of the Emperor I'm referring to is the one where note, she fights Ryu initially. Ever wondered why I referred to the Vigoor Emperor as a "he/she" and not just a he? In the Emperor's first form, she has a pair of boobs, a womanly face, a feminine body and long nails. The final and last form of the Emperor is the deity Vigoor, who is reffered to in the script you just gave, which I do hold in such regard. Thought I should also mention that the Emperor's second form actually yells at Ryu in a masculine tone.

-You said the dragons evolved in power from those deities which is false, as they have evolved from one deity only, the Serpent, the deity of creation.

-Tons of evidence exists my friend. Here are just a few off the top of my head:

Dialogue 1

Dark Disciple: "Gamov, so the Dark Dragon grows in power with each killing?"

Gamov: "Of that there is no doubt my excellency."

Dark Disciple: "Then I have arrived just in time."

Gamov: "Yes, my excellency. As always, I provide you with the most reliable information."

Dark Disciple: "The blade grows stronger and faster than I had expected."

Dialogue 2

Ayane: "The boldness of the fiends, is the work of the Dark Dragon. It is a cursed blade, bestowing an unfathomable strength upon those wicked enough to wield it. As we speak, its power is growing."

Dialogue 3

Gamov: "It seems that the Dark Dragon now free of its seal, is gradually absorbing the chaos of the battlefield and becoming a truly evil blade. It is not surprising that we did not know it's true capacity, as the ancients were so careful to conceal it. Now, it is a weapon of extraordinary power, the likes of which have never been seen thoughout human history."

Dialogue 4

Gamov: "Don't you see? The Dark Dragon is now truly and evil blade! His excellency the Dark Disciple has been waiting for this very moment!

Shall I go on?

-My let me ponder that one for a moment. Hmm...or you know I could just refer to Doku's statement which is this:

"The Dark Dragon Blade is in the hands of the Holy Vigoor Emperor, your true master. You see young Ryu, you are not so different from us. Those of the Dragon Lineage like yourself, draw their blood from the same ancient deities as the fiends."

I would be lying if I agreed with you on that part being irrelevant.

-And no proof saying they are weaker. It's much more reasonable to say they are more powerful or on the same level.

-The proof was already given that the Emperor infused with more power than he already has makes him even more powerful.

-It seemed you were saying it took the Emperor so long to do that considering he took barely seconds to do it. I guess you weren't saying it.

-If you recieved an increase in power, then you would be more powerful than your original self, wouldn't you agree?

-It's pretty obvious he would considering they'd by killed by a watered down Dragon Sword. Even hardcore SF fans such as Remulous and Snafu would agree they would die by the True Dragon Sword, considering they already have.

Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-The version of the Emperor I'm referring to is the one where note, [b]she fights Ryu initially. Ever wondered why I referred to the Vigoor Emperor as a "he/she" and not just a he? In the Emperor's first form, she has a pair of boobs, a womanly face, a feminine body and long nails. The final and last form of the Emperor is the deity Vigoor, who is reffered to in the script you just gave, which I do hold in such regard. Thought I should also mention that the Emperor's second form actually yells at Ryu in a masculine tone. [/B]

Being a diety, gender is going to be debatable. It was born of ethereal means and sex as you or I know it would not apply.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII

-You said the dragons evolved in power from those deities which is false, as they have evolved from one deity only, the Serpent, the deity of creation.

You misread that. I specifically stated that the Serpent created the Dragons. I said that the Dragons evolved independently of the dieties.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII

-Tons of evidence exists my friend. Here are just a few off the top of my head:
Shall I go on?

I deleted the exerpts to save space but you did provide commendable examples. I see I need to clarify my point though. Yes, people in the game mention increases in power. However, the being in discussion never canonically demonstrates this increase in power. Again, the hype from the people in game is just hype.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII

-My let me ponder that one for a moment. Hmm...or you know I could just refer to Doku's statement which is this:

"The Dark Dragon Blade is in the hands of the Holy Vigoor Emperor, your true master. You see young Ryu, you are not so different from us. [b]Those of the Dragon Lineage like yourself, draw their blood from the same ancient deities as the fiends." [/B]


This is irrelevant. It's just mentioning his heritage. It won't affect the fight because Hayabusa never got a power increase from this. You already know this.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-And no proof saying they are weaker. It's much more reasonable to say they are more powerful or on the same level.

Normally, yes you would assume they are equal. I must remind you though, of the length of time it took Hayabusa's ancestor's to battle the dieties.

Dragon Lineage and Evil Deities continued their battle for tens of thousands of generations

Hayabusa accomplished the same essentially all in one battle. This is why the ancient ones are a bit under their modern counterparts.

Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-The proof was already given that the Emperor infused with more power than he already has makes him even more powerful.

I agreed that, in theory, the Emperor SHOULD be more powerful than Vigoor, but you can not deny that he did absolutely nothing that Vigoor can not do. As a matter of fact, the Emperor lost more quickly to one person than Vigoor did to thousands of generations.
Originally posted by Eclipse_XII
-It's pretty obvious he would considering they'd by killed by a watered down Dragon Sword. Even hardcore SF fans such as Remulous and Snafu would agree they would die by the True Dragon Sword, considering they already have.

I believe Remulous is actually undecided on how the True Dragon Sword will affect this battle. Like I said, it's difficult to say conisdering the True Dragon Sword will have no extra bonuses vs Urien or Gill.

Make no mistake, the TDS will be able to cut Gill & Urien. Urien is the only debatable brother that might be able to withstand continous assaults from the sword because of his uber durability, but not Gill.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Make no mistake, the TDS will be able to cut Gill & Urien. Urien is the only debatable brother that might be able to withstand continous assaults from the sword because of his uber durability, but not Gill.

Never said it wouldn't cut gill, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a jobbing tool.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Make no mistake, the TDS will be able to cut Gill & Urien. Urien is the only debatable brother that might be able to withstand continous assaults from the sword because of his uber durability, but not Gill.

I only stated it won't have any special bonuses vs them which it won't. Although it won't really help Hayabusa's cause, the sword will probably cut Gill.

If the blade has no special powers against Gill or Urien, couldn't Gill just freeze the sword and break it of over his knee?

It's difficult to say. The level of strength required to actually break the True Dragon Sword is unknown. Although freezing would make it more brittle.

In any case, Gill should just freeze Hayabusa and break Hayabusa over his knee.

wow this is still going on...

i thought we all agreed that gill and urien would win?

I don't agree, but I don't discuss it anymore.

I just don't know who to believe about that damn Dragon Sword.

Originally posted by Remulous
I just don't know who to believe about that damn Dragon Sword.

The Dragon Sword is no ordinary blade that's for sure, But it's properties are unknown. Sure it's called powerful by hayabusa when compared to the other blades in Hayabusa village. Also, when it becomes the Thrue Dragon Sword it is said to have unfathomable spiritual power, But all those descriptions are vague and do not tell us squat about what it can do. So, basically it's a sword with unknwon properties.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
The Dragon Sword is no ordinary blade that's for sure, But it's properties are unknown. Sure it's called powerful by hayabusa when compared to the other blades in Hayabusa village. Also, when it becomes the Thrue Dragon Sword it is said to have unfathomable spiritual power, But all those descriptions are vague and do not tell us squat about what it can do. So, basically it's a sword with unknwon properties.

According to Robert from Ninja Gaiden 2, the Dragon Sword originates from the fang of the Dragon.