Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Flying has nothing to do with it. Unless you think the Wasp,IronMan, and Hawk Man could pull the earth. It's all about thier muscles.
No, they dont have the durability or the power source to do it.
But what Soleran mentioned previously is cannon, it was stated by Superman during the Bryne era of . 🙂
Originally posted by Donkey Punch
No, they dont have the durability or the power source to do it.But what Soleran mentioned previously is cannon, it was stated by Superman during the Bryne era of . 🙂
Byrne Era has been retconned a bit. His superman was written in a way that he was weaker. Superman struggles with a freaking tanker in byrne's era. It's thier muscle's which you see straining as they pull the earth. That is all.
Originally posted by batdude123
I understand that Surfer is your boy, but defacing Superman’s power set to help suit your argument is not exactly the right way to go about things.You left out a few things when you listed Kal’s power set. Keep in mind, I do understand that you were trying to oversimplify it to show how Surfer’s versatility is>>>Supers, but you left out some vital info.
Superman still has intangibility and invisibility. He’s stronger than Norrin, has better reflexes, and has better combat speed than him as well. Plus he can vibrate his limbs so fast that he can compromise an object’s molecular bonds, thus breaking them apart. Case in point:
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shandspeeddn9.jpg
And Hank is at least as durable as Norrin. Most of these powers used in conjunction with one another make the majority of what you listed off for Surfer null and void. And... let’s not forget about the ominous Torquasm-Vo!! You can hate it all you want… but the fact remains that he still does have it as a power. Granted, it might be a huge plot device, but so is the power cosmic. Superman has shown that he can basically do anything he wants when using T-Vo.
PS: Stating that Surfer is like a combo of GL and Firestorm is a bit redundant, don’t you think? lol
I hate being at the bottom of the page.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Byrne Era has been retconned a bit. His superman was written in a way that he was weaker. Superman struggles with a freaking tanker in byrne's era. It's thier muscle's which you see straining as they pull the earth. That is all.
Its been retconned slightly but the point i mentioned earlier has not, plus the fact it explains a HECK of a lot of inconsistencies. For Gods sakes a Lot of the more intelligent people on here agree with me. Deal With it !
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/442514_1-propulsion-power-or-strength
Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Its been retconned slightly but the point i mentioned earlier has not, plus the fact it explains a HECK of a lot of inconsistencies. For Gods sakes a Lot of the more intelligent people on here agree with me. Deal With it !http://www.killermovies.com/forums/442514_1-propulsion-power-or-strength
I don't buy it. Unless someone's propolsion is directly linked to thier strength. Which would still make it a strength feat. Wonder WOman wasn't Flying when she held the bridge up that Sinestro Clone destroyed. She was hovering. No propulsion to speak up. Just hovering. Throws the theory out the windo.
Originally posted by batdude123
I understand that Surfer is your boy, but defacing Superman’s power set to help suit your argument is not exactly the right way to go about things.You left out a few things when you listed Kal’s power set. Keep in mind, I do understand that you were trying to oversimplify it to show how Surfer’s versatility is>>>Supers, but you left out some vital info.
Superman still has intangibility and invisibility. He’s stronger than Norrin, has better reflexes, and has better combat speed than him as well. Plus he can vibrate his limbs so fast that he can compromise an object’s molecular bonds, thus breaking them apart. Case in point:
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shandspeeddn9.jpg
And Hank is at least as durable as Norrin. Most of these powers used in conjunction with one another make the majority of what you listed off for Surfer null and void. And... let’s not forget about the ominous Torquasm-Vo!! You can hate it all you want… but the fact remains that he still does have it as a power. Granted, it might be a huge plot device, but so is the power cosmic. Superman has shown that he can basically do anything he wants when using T-Vo.
PS: Stating that Surfer is like a combo of GL and Firestorm is a bit redundant, don’t you think? lol
He doesn't have intangibility or invisibility as a power anymore than he has shielding as a power.
He can rub his hands together and create electromagnetic forcefields, but thats not a power of his.
That's him using his creativity and other powers in conjunction with another to simulate another one.
He can vibrate so fast as to make himself invisible to anyone who can't keep up with their senses.
He can create the effects, but he doesn't have the true power.
Flash can run around in circles so fast that he can create a whirlwind, i wouldn't call that a power.
It's a tactic he can use, but not a power.
Entirely different things.
And combat speed/reflexes falls under his fly fast power for me. And i already said he is superstrong. That falls under his hit shit with physical power clause.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I don't buy it. Unless someone's propolsion is directly linked to thier strength. Which would still make it a strength feat. Wonder WOman wasn't Flying when she held the bridge up that Sinestro Clone destroyed. She was hovering. No propulsion to speak up. Just hovering. Throws the theory out the windo.
I buy thats she's strong enough to lift a bridge in fact I've seen her lift the entire Paradise island, but she and no other hero can lift a planets. They have enough energy to move the Earth with their propulsion power, but they cannot directly transfer this energy into punches or Brute physical strength. Read the thread, it make sense. 🙂
Originally posted by Donkey Punch
I buy thats she's strong enough to lift a bridge in fact I've seen her lift the entire Paradise island, but she and no other hero can lift a planets. They have enough energy to move the Earth with their propulsion power, but they cannot directly transfer this energy into punches or Brute physical strength. Read the thread, it make sense. 🙂
IT doesn't make sense. I've read it. Thier flight has nothing to do with them moving the Earth. It's thier strength. If Superman can punch thru a Moon with Ease, he sure as hell can move The Earth with WW and John. This propulsion power is just some rediculous theory to lesson the feat. It's thier muscles that are understrain in the Pic. Cleary if it where propulsion power, they could have been shown flying without effort in thier muscles.
Originally posted by UniOmni
He doesn't have intangibility or invisibility as a power anymore than he has shielding as a power.He can rub his hands together and create electromagnetic forcefields, but thats not a power of his.
That's him using his creativity and other powers in conjunction with another to simulate another one.He can vibrate so fast as to make himself invisible to anyone who can't keep up with their senses.
He can create the effects, but he doesn't have the true power.
Flash can run around in circles so fast that he can create a whirlwind, i wouldn't call that a power.
It's a tactic he can use, but not a power.
Entirely different things.
And combat speed/reflexes falls under his fly fast power for me. And i already said he is superstrong. That falls under his hit shit with physical power clause.
They may be tricks, but the end result is the same. A lot of the powers he uses in conjunction with one another can make Norrin's powers negated... wouldn't you agree?
Let me ask you a question... do you think it's unreasonable that Superman can take 3.5-4/10 against Norrin?
I know you said that he's fast and strong, but you oversimplified things making it seem like you thought that Norrin and Superman are = in those categories. 😬
PS: You STILL left out T-Vo.... hater.
Superman can likely take more than 4/10 against Norrin.
Norrin takes about 5.5-6/10 to me, but i can see someone else giving it to Superman in those same odds.
To me, what's flat out clear as day to see, is that Surfer is more powerful overall than Superman. His range just extends much further.
But Clark has his formidability and creative applications of power that work in his favor.
And whenever i debate Superman, i never take T-vo into consideration.
Its not one of his traditional powers, and is little known outside the select few.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IT doesn't make sense. I've read it. Thier flight has nothing to do with them moving the Earth. It's thier strength. If Superman can punch thru a Moon with Ease, he sure as hell can move The Earth with WW and John. This propulsion power is just some rediculous theory to lesson the feat. It's thier muscles that are understrain in the Pic. Cleary if it where propulsion power, they could have been shown flying without effort in thier muscles.
Its funny how dumb the even the best Mathematicians can be.
I'll explain once more;
Muscles work on the same basis as levers.
Defying Gravity (Without wings) involves some sort of propulsion that doesn't involve thrust.
Most Super heroes (The ones with Super Strength and Flight) have both muscle strength and the ability to defy gravity.
Both require energy.
Most Super heroes have an energy source of some kind.
Although they can transfer energy to both the levers that work their muscles, and the mechanism that allows them to defy gravity, the proportion of energy that can be transfered to the latter is significantly greater.
This explains why heroes punches cause relatively small amounts of collateral damage, and is backed up by Brynes Superman.
The example you are referring to involving Superman, had him ramming into the moon while flying, so it actually supports the theory.
It doesn't lesson any of the feats, it just explains things alot more clearly.
Once again Deal with it !
Originally posted by UniOmni
Superman can likely take more than 4/10 against Norrin.Norrin takes about 5.5-6/10 to me, but i can see someone else giving it to Superman in those same odds.
To me, what's flat out clear as day to see, is that Surfer is more powerful overall than Superman. His range just extends much further.
But Clark has his formidability and creative applications of power that work in his favor.
And whenever i debate Superman, i never take T-vo into consideration.
Its not one of his traditional powers, and is little known outside the select few.
👆
Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Its funny how dumb the even the best Mathematicians can be.I'll explain once more;
Muscles work on the same basis as levers.
Defying Gravity (Without wings) involves some sort of propulsion that doesn't involve thrust.
Most Super heroes (The ones with Super Strength and Flight) have both muscle strength and the ability to defy gravity.
Both require energy.Most Super heroes have an energy source of some kind.
Although they can transfer energy to both the levers that work their muscles, and the mechanism that allows them to defy gravity, the proportion of energy that can be transfered to the latter is significantly greater.
This explains why heroes punches cause relatively small amounts of collateral damage, and is backed up by Brynes Superman.
The example you are referring to involving Superman, had him ramming into the moon while flying, so it actually supports the theory.
It doesn't lesson any of the feats, it just explains things alot more clearly.
Once again Deal with it !
It's your theory. As long as the Artist shows the muscles straining, then I'm inclined it's thier muscles doing the work. The Spectre even comments on this when Superman and WW hold up his form. He talks about thier might. Not thier flight propulsion. Even tho they were flying when they were holdign him up.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's your theory. As long as the Artist shows the muscles straining, then I'm inclined it's thier muscles doing the work. The Spectre even comments on this when Superman and WW hold up his form. He talks about thier might. Not thier flight propulsion. Even tho they were flying when they were holdign him up.
Exactly, thats a name i have given it, their might applies to their power, i.e. the power of Flight propulsion
And my theory was confirmed by Bryne, and until someone comes along and says Byne was wrong you should deal with it. And being the geek u are in having to quantify everything, you should realise it doesn't take any impact away from the feat, as the energy needed to perform the feats is still unimaginable . They can still ram people with the Force to move planets, they just cant punch them with that force.
Deal with it ! 🙂
Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Exactly, thats a name i have given it, their might applies to their power, i.e. the power of Flight propulsionAnd my theory was confirmed by Bryne, and until someone comes along and says Byne was wrong you should deal with it. And being the geek u are in having to quantify everything, you should realise it doesn't take any impact away from the feat, as the energy needed to perform the feats is still unimaginable . They can still ram people with the Force to move planets, they just cant punch them with that force.
Deal with it ! 🙂
Ok let's see. Wonder Woman, Beat Barda, who held the weight of a continent on her shoulds. Barda cannot fly. So we must assume that WW has the strength to move a continent at least. She also halted the trajectory of the Asteriod that was so big, terra couldn't slow it, and you couldn't even see them under it as they talked. WW stopped the meteor and then she stood there in mid air taking. As in hovering. Hovering would imply that there is no propulson going on. Superman without propulsion turned the wheels of megeddon without flying. Solar System sized wheels. It's safe to bet they used thier strength and Not propulsion. Deal with it.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ok let's see. Wonder Woman, Beat Barda, who held the weight of a continent on her shoulds. Barda cannot fly. So we must assume that WW has the strength to move a continent at least. She also halted the trajectory of the Asteriod that was so big, terra couldn't slow it, and you couldn't even see them under it as they talked. WW stopped the meteor and then she stood there in mid air taking. As in hovering. Hovering would imply that there is no propulson going on. Superman without propulsion turned the wheels of megeddon without flying. Solar System sized wheels. It's safe to bet they used thier strength and Not propulsion. Deal with it.
She said it weighed the same as a continent, it was an exaggeration, i.e. Hyperbole I own the comic. 🙂
She later on hits Wonder Woman 1 million with the full force of her Cosmic rod and it makes an impact of 7 tons per square inch. That totally contradicts the continent comment.
The propulsion/defying of Gravity is at work in the other cases. Apples oranges its still the same power
I never saw any Wheels the size of Solar systems during WW3. I did see some relatively small chains though. 🙂
Mate you exaggerate A lot, and a lot of people seem to know this.
Originally posted by Validus
I agree with nvr (*shudder*)
Originally posted by Donkey Punch
She said it weighed the same as a continent, it was an exaggeration, i.e. Hyperbole I own the comic. 🙂She later on hits Wonder Woman 1 million with the full force of her Cosmic rod and it makes an impact of 7 tons per square inch. That totally contradicts the continent comment.
The propulsion/defying of Gravity is at work in the other cases. Apples oranges its still the same power
I never saw any Wheels the size of Solar systems during WW3. I did see some relatively small chains though. 🙂
Mate you exaggerate A lot, and a lot of people seem to know this.
What ever you say. people who has said that have ended up looking stupid when other's have come and backed me up with the scans. I do not like going thru a billion comics to post scans. The Rod also obey's Barda's commands. If it didn't, she would one shot everyone she used it on. barda is also a new god,she would know what a continent weights I'm sure of it. Propulsion and defying of gravity are NOT the same. kitty pride can defy gravity. Cannon ball can propel himself but he cannot defy gravity.
