The Nature of the Living Tribunal

hey all,

he's the most powerful and enigmatic entity in marvel. but . . . what is he? 😕

there has been some disagreement regarding his nature. is he an abstract or physical being? if abstract, what does he represent? if abstract, does he use m-bodies as all other abstracts must do?

anyway, i did a little looking around and here are some things i came up with. i had told mr. masters that i believed LT WAS an abstract, and in fact represented multiversal balance. this thread (and what follws) was born from that bit of discussion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There's my Proof.

Can you show me or direct me to yours?

"LT represents multiversal balance" ( as in embodies like an Abstract)

i conducted a small search and couldn't find the proof to back-up that particular belief. i'll keep looking, but it would be a HELL of a lot easier if someone, somewhere on the web actually put together a bibliography of character appearances . . . 🙁

anyway, i DID find the proof that backs up my claim that LT is an abstract entity -- and that is what i was trying to get at in any event.

i thought (and still do think) that LT represents multiversal balance. (like i said, i'll continue to look for that particular bit of proof -- anyone out there recall something like that?)

but, that aside for a time, we also know that LT's faces represent 3 seperate concepts -- equity, necessity and vengeance. each face is an essentially an abstract entity. there was something interesting at marvel.com about what the faces represent and how they are manifested in each universe. this from marvel.com:

The Tribunal appears as a giant golden man with three cloaked faces which each revolve to the front to speak. The three faces are what make up the Tribunal. They are: Equity, Necessity, and Vengeance. These represent the trinity of aspects of each universe. For example, in the main universe they are represented by Galactus (Equity), Eternity (Necessity), and Death (Vengeance).

that is a pretty cool take. gives an additional meaning to each of the entities above.

anyway, my claim was that LT referred to quasar as a 'PHYSICAL' in one of mr m's many scans because LT himself was an abstract entity. as an abstract entity he would need to use an m-body to interact with physicals -- like all abstracts need to do.

in the scan above LT HIMSELF states he is an abstract entity. marvel says his faces are representations of universal aspects, and even marunapp seems to agree:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/anthropo.htm

under AFFILIATIONS, LT is listed as one of the abstract allies of anthropomorpho.

with all this, hopefully we can all agree that LT is INDEED an abstract/conceptual being. to me this also lends a great deal of support to the idea that Lt uses m-bodies to manifest in each universe in the multiverse.

🙂

what do you all think?

Indeed... The concept of the faces having manifestations in different reals was something LT himself reffered to when he spoke to silver Surfer.

He said on his own face, the trinity is Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance.

In the sphere of magik this corresponds to Order, The In-Betweener and Chaos.

In the Prime Universe this trinity is Eternity, Galactus, and Death.

The Living Tribunal was created by the One Above All as his servant to oversee the multiverse and make sure no one universe gains too much power over others.

I've noticed alot of chatter about these godlike beings on this forum section over time (both Marvel and DC) but if I wanted to read some of all this where should I start? Not counting information sites like wikipedia etc, what comics?

Originally posted by leonidas

This has semantics written all over it, which isn't a good thing to debate in this forum, especially with the calibre of intelligence.

For example if something is abstract, does that means its metaphysical ?

What is an M body b.t.w., its a term i see thrown around a lot nowadays.

Originally posted by leonidas
hey all,

he's the most powerful and enigmatic entity in marvel. but . . . what is he? 😕

there has been some disagreement regarding his nature. is he an abstract or physical being? if abstract, what does he represent? if abstract, does he use m-bodies as all other abstracts must do?

anyway, i did a little looking around and here are some things i came up with. i had told mr. masters that i believed LT WAS an abstract, and in fact represented multiversal balance. this thread (and what follws) was born from that bit of discussion.

i conducted a small search and couldn't find the proof to back-up that particular belief. i'll keep looking, but it would be a HELL of a lot easier if someone, somewhere on the web actually put together a bibliography of character appearances . . . 🙁

anyway, i DID find the proof that backs up my claim that LT is an abstract entity -- and that is what i was trying to get at in any event.

i thought (and still do think) that LT represents multiversal balance. (like i said, i'll continue to look for that particular bit of proof -- anyone out there recall something like that?)

but, that aside for a time, we also know that LT's faces represent 3 seperate concepts -- equity, necessity and vengeance. each face is an essentially an abstract entity. there was something interesting at marvel.com about what the faces represent and how they are manifested in each universe. this from marvel.com:

that is a pretty cool take. gives an additional meaning to each of the entities above.

anyway, my claim was that LT referred to quasar as a 'PHYSICAL' in one of mr m's many scans because LT himself was an abstract entity. as an abstract entity he would need to use an m-body to interact with physicals -- like all abstracts need to do.

in the scan above LT HIMSELF states he is an abstract entity. marvel says his faces are [b]representations of universal aspects, and even marunapp seems to agree:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/anthropo.htm

under AFFILIATIONS, LT is listed as one of the abstract allies of anthropomorpho.

with all this, hopefully we can all agree that LT is INDEED an abstract/conceptual being. to me this also lends a great deal of support to the idea that Lt uses m-bodies to manifest in each universe in the multiverse.

🙂

what do you all think? [/B]

Living Tribunal is awesome 🙂

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
For example if something is abstract, does that means its metaphysical?

I would assume yes. Abstracts seem to embody concepts (Death, Need, Balance, Destruction etc)

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
What is an M body b.t.w., its a term i see thrown around a lot nowadays.

MBodies are the forms used by abstracts to take form or appear somewhere when they don't have time to do it themselves. They are designed by Anthopomorpho (an abstract that seems to represent either the artist or the idea of creation).

Originally posted by King Kandy
Indeed... The concept of the faces having manifestations in different reals was something LT himself reffered to when he spoke to silver Surfer.

He said on his own face, the trinity is Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance.

In the sphere of magik this corresponds to Order, The In-Betweener and Chaos.

In the Prime Universe this trinity is Eternity, Galactus, and Death.

i approve

100000%

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I would assume yes. Abstracts seem to embody concepts (Death, Need, Balance, Destruction etc)

MBodies are the forms used by abstracts to take form or appear somewhere when they don't have time to do it themselves. They are designed by Anthopomorpho (an abstract that seems to represent either the artist or the idea of creation).

Death is not a metaphysical concept though ! 🙂

Originally posted by Donkey Punch
Death is not a metaphysical concept though ! 🙂

Death isn't exactly physical either.

Yes one can die physically but death is more complex than that in most cultures.

Is this the kind of proof you may be are looking fore???

http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lt2cm.jpg

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Death isn't exactly physical either.

Yes one can die physically but death is more complex than that in most cultures.

Um no, what happens after death is meta physical, death itself is one of the most physical concepts there is. 🙂

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The Living Tribunal was created by the One Above All as his servant to oversee the multiverse and make sure no one universe gains too much power over others.

Yeah, Multiverse/Omniverse, etc.

LT IS Balance.

He is a watcher/guardian/punisher whom makes sure everything is in balance.

If anything tips the Multiversal scale too much he will immediately do one of two things.

1. Erase the being,moment or item from existence if it's within his power

2. Inform the entity of the multiversal problem there causing and warn them to deal with it (usually performed on entities whom are too important to erase , such as mephisto , galactus ect )

LT is TOAA herald

about the multiverse(S) thing, that's the only scan in any of LT's appearances that uses multiverse as a plural. generally, according to the writers, he watches over multiverse singular.

Originally posted by leonidas
with all this, hopefully we can all agree that LT is INDEED an abstract/conceptual being.

to me this also lends a great deal of support to the idea that Lt uses m-bodies to manifest in each universe in the multiverse.

🙂

what do you all think?

This is what I think, and Marvel apparently:

There is only one Living Tribunal according to Marvel the Company

(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006)

"The LT has NO Counter-Parts ... ONLY ONE LT exists in the Multiverse"

On Panel verification

"The LT Exists in ALL Multiverses simultaneously"

"with all this, hopefully you can agree"

that there is only ONE LT,

that's in every Universe simultaneously.

🙂

so what happened to ALL the other lt manifestations when thanos absorbed him?

Originally posted by leonidas
so what happened to ALL the other lt manifestations when thanos absorbed him?

What "other" manifestations?

They are all the same LT,

LT has NO Counter-Parts.

You absorb one, you absorb all.

(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006)

"The LT has NO Counter-Parts ... only One LT exists in the Multiverse"