The Nature of the Living Tribunal

so you're saying there was NO lt present in the entire omniverse after thanos absorbed that single m-body . . .?

not something i can agree with. 😬

i agree there is only one lt -- however, we disagree that there is only a SINGLE m-body. the SENTIENCE/partial sentience that exists WITHIN each lt m-body is the same or comes from the same overall source (in that way he HAS no counterpart, like eternity for example who's sentience is actually DIFFERENT from universe to universe) but to say it is the same m-body makes no sense. nor does it HAVE to be that way. no where does it say the same m-body, just the same lt. based on what we know of how m-bodies work, a single m-body spread throughout the omniverse makes no sense, imo.

and like any m-body, i still believe there is no need to say that each m-body is the totality of the concept -- so none of the lt m-bodies HAS to be in possession of ALL of the 'true' lt's power.

Originally posted by leonidas
so you're saying there was NO lt present in the entire omniverse after thanos absorbed that single m-body . . .?

Yes.

Originally posted by leonidas
not something i can agree with.

shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree there is only one lt -- however, we disagree that there is only a SINGLE m-body.

All you need to do is show me LT in Two separate locations simultaneously,

(Not some Reflection in the D of M)

and I'll concede.

Until then,

On Panel there has never been multiple manifestations of LT.

Just because LT can manifest in every Universe simutaneously, (Off Panel)

doesn't mean he's employing M-bodiers 24/7 across the Multiverse.

LT only needs to manifest when a Reality threatens the balance, which doesn't happen every day or everywhyere for that matter.

Hence, the extreme lack of LT appearances.

Originally posted by leonidas
the SENTIENCE/partial sentience that exists WITHIN each lt m-body is the same or comes from the same overall source

I agree, every LT manifestation is the same.

I strongly disagree that it's a "partial sentience" ... 🙁

The Full Sentience and Power of LT resides within any M-body he wishes to manifest, there is absolutely NO On Panel evidence proving M-bodies come in various levels of Sentience or power.

There is only proof that M-bodies come with the Full Power of the Concept.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/anthropo.htm

"Anthro/Fractals (m-bodies)

can assume the Form of Non-Physical or Abstract beings,

these Forms have access to the Full Power of the Original Being"

Originally posted by leonidas
(he HAS no counterpart, like eternity for example who's sentience is actually DIFFERENT from universe to universe)

I agree.

Originally posted by leonidas
but to say it is the same m-body makes no sense.

To say there is more than One LT operating at a single time,

makes no sense to me either.

When Marvel clearly tells us:

Originally posted by Mr Master
(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006)

"The LT has NO Counter-Parts ... only One LT exists in the Multiverse"

Originally posted by leonidas
nor does it HAVE to be that way. no where does it say the same m-body, just the same lt.

It does HAVE to be that way. No where does it say different LT M-bodies are spread through out the Multiverse.

Originally posted by leonidas
based on what we know of how m-bodies work, a single m-body spread throughout the omniverse makes no sense, imo.

That's because you're looking at it as though LT has an M-body in every Universe on the clock working 24/7,

as if everyday in every Reality a Universal imbalance is taking place.

Again:

LT only needs to manifest when there is a threat to the balance of the Multiverse.

Originally posted by leonidas
and like any m-body, i still believe there is no need to say that each m-body is the totality of the concept -- so none of the lt m-bodies HAS to be in possession of ALL of the 'true' lt's power.

That's your opinion. 🙂

IMO, due to the evidence I found and read from outside sources,

like all M-bodies they possess the Full Power of the Concept they represent.

Originally posted by xmeat
LT is TOAA herald

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes.

shrug

All you need to do is show me LT in Two separate locations simultaneously,

(Not some Reflection in the D of M)

and I'll concede.

Until then,

On Panel there has never been multiple manifestations of LT.

Just because LT can manifest in every Universe simutaneously, (Off Panel)

doesn't mean he's employing M-bodiers 24/7 across the Multiverse.

LT only needs to manifest when a Reality threatens the balance, which doesn't happen every day or everywhyere for that matter.

Hence, the extreme lack of LT appearances.

I agree, every LT manifestation is the same.

I strongly disagree that it's a "partial sentience" ... 🙁

The Full Sentience and Power of LT resides within any M-body he wishes to manifest, there is absolutely NO On Panel evidence proving M-bodies come in various levels of Sentience or power.

There is only proof that M-bodies come with the Full Power of the Concept.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/anthropo.htm

"[B]Anthro/Fractals (m-bodies)

can assume the Form of Non-Physical or Abstract beings,

these Forms have access to the Full Power of the Original Being"

I agree.

To say there is more than One LT operating at a single time,

makes no sense to me either.

When Marvel clearly tells us:

It does HAVE to be that way. No where does it say different LT M-bodies are spread through out the Multiverse.

That's because you're looking at it as though LT has an M-body in every Universe on the clock working 24/7,

as if everyday in every Reality a Universal imbalance is taking place.

Again:

LT only needs to manifest when there is a threat to the balance of the Multiverse.

That's your opinion. 🙂

IMO, due to the evidence I found and read from outside sources,

like all M-bodies they possess the Full Power of the Concept they represent. [/B]

so, hypothetically if there were 2 simultaneous instances where lt was needed, you think he'd simply . . . not appear in one? so a multiverse/universe could suffer or die because . . . lt was busy making a house call? or because an mbody of him was disrupted somehow?

as you wish. 🙂

and you think there was NO lt for a time in the omniverse?? hmmm, that also doesn't work for me.

one lt is something i completely understand and like. one MBODY makes no sense and limits this omnipotent being.

Originally posted by leonidas
so, hypothetically if there were 2 simultaneous instances where lt was needed, you think he'd simply . . . not appear in one?

Hypothetically is the proper term,

because there's never been 2 simultaneous manifestations of LT.

I won't speculate on your question.

Originally posted by leonidas
so a multiverse/universe could suffer or die because . . . lt was busy making a house call? or because an mbody of him was disrupted somehow?

Again,

LT only manifests when there is a Multiversal Imbalance.

Imbalances on a Multiversal level happen occasionally,

the chances of 2 Multiversal Imbalances taking place simultaneously are null.

I personally have Never seen it, but if you have proof, do show.

Originally posted by leonidas
as you wish.

And Marvel. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
and you think there was NO lt for a time in the omniverse?? hmmm, that also doesn't work for me.

You mean a single issue?

LT was absorbed in the End #6, by the end of the issue,

he's back with everything else.

Originally posted by leonidas
one lt is something i completely understand and like.

I agree.

Originally posted by leonidas
one MBODY makes no sense and limits this omnipotent being.

That's cool,

if you can show me 2 separate manifestations of LT M-bodies I'll agree.

Until then I'll stick to what I have seen and read so far.

There is only one LT,

and although he exist simultaneously everywhere Off-Panel,

Marvel has decided to only present him one M-body at a time.

Perhaps LT is a spin off of God,

Three Faces = the Trinity?

Omnipresence = Simultaneous existence in every Universe.

Would you say that God is less than the whole because he's everything everywhere?

If God is every Atom in Creation, (that would be a manifestation of every Atom)

does that mean that God's power has been divided between all the Atoms?

Or is any single Atom still the Full Power of God? hm

According to Science and Religion it's the latter, and it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense because it's a Divine Concept, as opposed to a limited mind like ours attempting to comprehend an Infinite Paradox.

I believe this is what Marvel is aiming at, IMO.

i agree with you. omnipresence DOES mean everywhere simultaneously.

that would of course mean in my hypothetical question he most certainly COULD manifest in both instances even though they happened simultaneously in seperate multiverses. 🙂

and it's ALL speculation. you're speculating by comparing toaa/lt to god in OUR world, but you won't speculate on an answer to my question? meh.

and the multiverse is infinite. since you brought up real world science and religion, the fact that the multiverse is infinite means that not only is the threat of 2 multiversal level threats happening at once NOT 'null'. it is in fact a CERTAINTY. 😉

Tribunal, schmunal...who's the babe with the wings?

Originally posted by leonidas

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree with you. omnipresence DOES mean everywhere simultaneously.

that would of course mean in my hypothetical question he most certainly COULD manifest in both instances even though they happened simultaneously in seperate multiverses.

Well I agree with this.

The thing is Marvel has never depicted the LT with simultaneous manifestations.

Originally posted by leonidas
and it's ALL speculation. you're speculating by comparing toaa/lt to god in OUR world, but you won't speculate on an answer to my question? meh.

Actually I was comparing their Nature of existence, not the Entities themselves.

LT is Three Aspects in one.

God is Three Aspects in one.

LT is Omnipresent.

God is Omnipresent.

Is it my fault, or Marvel's fault for the obvious comparison?

Your question could not be answered without pure speculation:

Originally posted by leonidas
so, hypothetically if there were 2 simultaneous instances where lt was needed, you think he'd simply . . . not appear in one?

I can't respond to this because it's Never happened in Marvel.

Atleast my God/LT speculation made sense, and is a fact concerning both.

Originally posted by leonidas
and the multiverse is infinite. since you brought up real world science and religion, the fact that the multiverse is infinite

"The Fact?"

I didn't know scientist had proven there is a Multiverse.

Originally posted by leonidas
means that not only is the threat of 2 multiversal level threats happening at once [b]NOT 'null'. it is in fact a CERTAINTY. [/B]

"In fact a certainty?"

How can you say that without a shred of evidence?

It may be plausible, but it's CERTAINLY NOT a fact.

LT manifested an M-Body in the D of M.... This M-Body interacted with Quasar, and IMO unleashed Anomaly on him.

But, it was said before that these manifestations from the D of M simply play out events needlessly.

If that's true, then why would Oblivion use the D of M to manifest M-Bodies when he interacts with "physical beings"?

Hey Leo,good thread,
i am at work so i will post quickly, i hope i will be back to talk more

This was a writers answer for what LT does or is (Not a writer of LT just a writer for the washington post)
The manifestation of the abstraction of universal law and justice.

I would say that the what ifs are as close to LT appearing simultaneoulsly
if we take events that incur with thanos and warlock,and use the what if Surfer had the IG(etc),we can somwhat see how he has to manifest more than once,since its the same multiverse,just a thought

Could counterparts mean flip side
Eternity-Infinity
Chaos-Order
Death-Oblivion
Love-Hate
LT-no counterpart?

what does only one in the multiverse mean? and only one exist?
and does it mean that all the M-bodies of eternity and such are single entities that can act on thier own?(and have different levels of power and such) why not use multi-enternity as one also,or does he have a counterpart-Infinity

almost every link about LT and The end speculate if it was an avatar or M-bodie that was destroyed

just some food for thought 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
LT manifested an M-Body in the D of M.... This M-Body interacted with Quasar,

So you believe that's the real LT still stuck in time presiding over Warlock's Infinity Gauntlet Trial that took place in another Comic Book over 5 Months before?

As you wish..

Originally posted by Galan007
and IMO unleashed Anomaly on him.

In Marvel's opinion the Anomaly is a D of M Guard:

(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006)

"the Abstract Entity Anomaly prevents outsiders from interfering in events

which have technically already occurred"

Originally posted by Galan007
But, it was said before that these manifestations from the D of M simply play out events needlessly.

If that's true, then why would Oblivion use the D of M to manifest M-Bodies when he interacts with "physical beings"?

Because it's NOT a Past event,

it's Oblivion using the D of M in the Present.

We're talking about the Past Reflections of events that have taken place and yet are still Replaying themselves over and over needlessly and meaninglessly.

Like this garbage:

The Beyonder in Secret Wars II: (8 Years before this issue was published)

😆

AND even more hilarious about this whole scene is that when the Cosmics came to the Beyonder they WEREN'T even in the Dimension of Manifestation,

they WERE in a RESTAURANT!

There're still CHAIRS and TABLES there, LOL!

HOW the heck did this turn into a Dimesion of Manifestation moment?

Oh silly PIS Writers of Quasar #37 & part of #38

Originally posted by Mr Master

"The LT Exists in ALL Multiverses simultaneously"

"with all this, hopefully you can agree"

that there is only ONE LT,

that's in every Universe simultaneously.

🙂 [/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master

All you need to do is show me LT in Two separate locations simultaneously,

Originally posted by xjustice69x
why would any one need to if you already claim he exist in all universes "simultaneously"

Marvel claims it.

But it's an Off-Panel fact, (like something to just know)

It's never been depicted On Panel.

Although you're right,

it wouldn't make a difference cause my contention is that it's the SAME LT with the SAME Power everywhere.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel claims it.

But it's an Off-Panel fact, (like something to just know)

It's never been depicted On Panel.

Although you're right,

it wouldn't make a difference cause my contention is that it's the SAME LT with the SAME Power everywhere.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well I agree with this.

The thing is Marvel has never depicted the LT with simultaneous manifestations.

but as logical readers not EVERYTHING needs to be in black and white or ON-PANEL.

Actually I was comparing their Nature of existence, not the Entities themselves.

LT is Three Aspects in one.

God is Three Aspects in one.

LT is Omnipresent.

God is Omnipresent.

Is it my fault, or Marvel's fault for the obvious comparison?

😕

Your question could not be answered without pure speculation:

I can't respond to this because it's Never happened in Marvel.

Atleast my God/LT speculation made sense, and is a fact concerning both.

that's all right because you DID answer it above. 😄

"The Fact?"

I didn't know scientist had proven there is a Multiverse.

"In fact a certainty?"

How can you say that without a shred of evidence?

It may be plausible, but it's CERTAINLY NOT a fact.

no, logically speaking, it is a 100% certainty. right mindship? 🙂 if you consider the notion of what an infinite number of multiverses means, you'll put it together.

and of course science didn't prove multiverses (though there IS some pretty compelling proof). i was speaking of the fact that marvel has said the omniverse is comprised of an infinite number of multiverses. and if they are speaking truthfully, then what i said is true.

Originally posted by xjustice69x
this seems to contradict your previous post

I think not.

Originally posted by xjustice69x
what you are saying is u wont concede even if shown proof?

So try and show me proof of LT being stated to manifest in portions of his totality.

Or show me proof that states that M-bodies, ANY M-body, manifests with a fraction of the totality of the Concept it represents.

Then I'll concede. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
but as logical readers not EVERYTHING needs to be in black and white or ON-PANEL.

LT has never been stated to manifest in portions of his Totality.

In black and white,

NO M-body has ever been stated to manifest with a fraction of their power.

To the contrary:

There is only proof that M-bodies come with the Full Power of the Concept.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/anthropo.htm

"Anthro/Fractals (m-bodies)

can assume the Form of Non-Physical or Abstract beings,

these Forms have access to the Full Power of the Original Being"

That's my argument.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's all right because you DID answer it above.

Well for the record,

There is one LT in Omniverse and he exists in all Universes simultaneously.

If it were not the SAME exact LT in all Universes,

the term "simultaneously" would not be needed.

Anyhow, LT only does manifest when there is a Mystical Imbalance that threatens the Multiverse.

And HOW often does that happen?

It's true LT is the Judge of the Omniverse, but HOW many times have you seen LT in another Multiverse carrying out his duties? 😕

So LT doesn't need to manifest everywhere because that's not taking place everywhere at once, heck it doesn't take place in 2 Places at once, atleast NOT On Panel or in a Bio.

Originally posted by leonidas
no, logically speaking, it is a 100% certainty.

"Logically speaking"

So not with with proof?

Originally posted by leonidas
right mindship?

uhh right Marvel?

master

😄

Originally posted by leonidas
if you consider the notion of what an infinite number of multiverses means, you'll put it together.

You put it together, I'm only concerned with what the Comics say.

Originally posted by leonidas
and of course science didn't prove multiverses (though there IS some pretty compelling proof). i was speaking of the fact that marvel has said the omniverse is comprised of an infinite number of multiverses. and if they are speaking truthfully, then what i said is true.

What you said is not exactly what Marvel said. 🙁

You're making your own theoretical assumption inspired by Marvel facts.

According to Marvel the Hierarchy doesn't even exist Outside the 616 Multiverse.

With the exception of the Post-retcon Brothers and LT, there has Never been a depiction of any Sentient Concept Outside the 616 Multiverse.

LT has Never ventured Outside the 616 Multiverse On Panel except for the time he held the Brothers in his hand, if even then, because he might of been able to materialized the Brothers into that Alternate Reality he was overseeing.

So again,

what you said is Plausible, but not definite, especially considering that we Never see LT carrying out his duties Outside the 616 Multiverse, so how can any of us know that Multiversal Imbalances are taking place Outside the Prime Multiverse? ("It's a game of numbers?" ... I'm not buying that)

I have most of the Comics that deal with Other Multiverses, there's only literally a few Titles, and the characters there are not as powerful as the over saturation of Universal destroyers in the 616 Multiverse. In fact, other than the Starbrand, I'd bet you can't find me any other significant powerhouse Out there.

Originally posted by Mindship
Tribunal, schmunal...who's the babe with the wings?

Originally posted by Mindship
Does anybody know?