OE worship?
if Superman beats Darkseid, Surfer obviously should do so too (and quicker).
this rubbish about Surfer being slower than Superman at "combat speed", ignores the fact that his reflexes and speed are both such that he can navigate space at +billions+ of times the speed of light.
he goes through asteroid fields does he not? that's reaction speeds on a level Superman never has to deal with on Earth.
until OE can be explained to have a comparable effect on non-DC characters and especially upon characters who can phase, manipulate matter and cast illusions (like Surfer can), I'm going to say Surfer can win more often against Darkseid than Superman does.
Ok, that's it. I need to point something out. Jeph Loeb wrote the arc where Supes kicks DS around. Which alone should discredit it. 2nd, before that, Supes never was able to even hurt DS.
third, SUPES CANNOT BEAT DARKSEID. This is a forum myth. Darkseid will always beat Superman if DS isn't jobbing. Surfer will die, and die painfully. Any statement to the contrary, is ignorance and bias. An avatar of DS can kill Surfer. and that's not even True Darkseid, who could beat pretty much any herald short of Tyrant. Hell, True Darkseid could beat depowered Tyrant and maybe full power.
you realise you're not even attempting to rationally reason things. just asserting that Darkseid will kill Surfer.
how, why, what is likely to be the nature of the battle, etc etc...
it's not really any better than the "Hulk smash" stuff you all seem to find fun to mock (at least with Hulk, he does have a history of smashing the unsmashable and the impossible).
people go on about the OE but, why should that have effect on non-DC universe characters? what's its range/power/speed etc...
something other than simply a "DS smash" statement (however circuitously you arrive at it, as above).
LOL...True Darkseid lost to Doomsday....
Yeah and True Darkseid has no chance against Full-Power Tyrant. Not a prayer. He loses 20/10. Same as he does against Odin and anyone above that level.
People just don't understand that DS sucks and has always sucked. His power isn't that great and he is and never was on Galactus' level or Tyrant's level or anywhere near that. He should keep to fighting Thanos and people more int hat weight class or else he's just gonna be so embarrassed that he's even more of a joke now than he always has been.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Even if Surfer beats Tenebrious oR Aegis, That still doesn't mean he won't lose to DS. He still won't be immune to the OE. Unless people would be willing to think him defeating those two would somehow make him more powerful than say Odin. DS is being written back to his kirby PC glory. There will be no defeating of him by sufer.
Uhh....
1. No he (Darkseid) isn't.
2. Not to use ABC logic, but Tenebrous = Aegis = Galactus > Odin >= Darkseid.
So, if the Surfer ends up punking either Tenebrous or Aegis, or even BOTH, then....well...
That'd really up his chances fighting Darkseid.
Originally posted by Soljer
Uhh....1. No he (Darkseid) isn't.
2. Not to use ABC logic, but Tenebrous = Aegis = Galactus > Odin >= Darkseid.
So, if the Surfer ends up punking either Tenebrous or Aegis, or even BOTH, then....well...
That'd really up his chances fighting Darkseid.
Stayne her self is more powerful than T or A. DS is more powerful than Staybe. DO the math.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl*gets out the old umbrella to deflect a downpour of fanboy water*
Stayne her self is more powerful than T or A. DS is more powerful than Staybe. DO the math.
That's all opinion at this point. My opinion is that T&A are a little below Galactus, but still above characters like Darkseid, Thanos, Mephisto, Odin, ect. Of course, the stalwart DC proponent cannot except this, because if Surfer manages to take on an opponent(s) stronger than DS, then Norrin has an excellent chance of defeating any GL, Orion, even DS himself.
Discussion is still moot at this point, because we don't know how the Surfer vs. T&A fight is going to go down.
OE worship?if Superman beats Darkseid, Surfer obviously should do so too (and quicker).
this rubbish about Surfer being slower than Superman at "combat speed", ignores the fact that his reflexes and speed are both such that he can navigate space at +billions+ of times the speed of light.
he goes through asteroid fields does he not? that's reaction speeds on a level Superman never has to deal with on Earth.
until OE can be explained to have a comparable effect on non-DC characters and especially upon characters who can phase, manipulate matter and cast illusions (like Surfer can), I'm going to say Surfer can win more often against Darkseid than Superman does.
:up
Ok, that's it. I need to point something out. Jeph Loeb wrote the arc where Supes kicks DS around. Which alone should discredit it. 2nd, before that, Supes never was able to even hurt DS.third, SUPES CANNOT BEAT DARKSEID. This is a forum myth. Darkseid will always beat Superman if DS isn't jobbing. Surfer will die, and die painfully. Any statement to the contrary, is ignorance and bias. An avatar of DS can kill Surfer. and that's not even True Darkseid, who could beat pretty much any herald short of Tyrant. Hell, True Darkseid could beat depowered Tyrant and maybe full power.
Darkseid will always beat Superman when he isn't jobbing... 🙄
(O no not that argument again)So that means he's jobbing all the time or does it just means he's a p*nk... and you're statement that Darkseid could f*ck Tyrant up is just blasfemous that's like saying Aunt May could f*ck Doc ock up..
you realise you're not even attempting to rationally reason things. just asserting that Darkseid will kill Surfer.how, why, what is likely to be the nature of the battle, etc etc...
it's not really any better than the "Hulk smash" stuff you all seem to find fun to mock (at least with Hulk, he does have a history of smashing the unsmashable and the impossible).
people go on about the OE but, why should that have effect on non-DC universe characters? what's its range/power/speed etc...
something other than simply a "DS smash" statement (however circuitously you arrive at it, as above).
I agree 🙂
LOL...True Darkseid lost to Doomsday....Yeah and True Darkseid has no chance against Full-Power Tyrant. Not a prayer. He loses 20/10. Same as he does against Odin and anyone above that level.
People just don't understand that DS sucks and has always sucked. His power isn't that great and he is and never was on Galactus' level or Tyrant's level or anywhere near that. He should keep to fighting Thanos and people more int hat weight class or else he's just gonna be so embarrassed that he's even more of a joke now than he always has been.
HaHa yeah an can you believe a p*ssy like that try's to take over the universe... 😆 Galactus level my ass 🤣 😊
😎
Originally posted by Soljer
Show me a little proof that Darkseid could stand up to Galactus' planet-sized-shits, and then we'll talk. Till then, Galactus = Tenebrous = Aegis >>>>>> Darkseid. 😬.
HMM. It took Five sky father plus lvl beings to combine to fight DS. Stayne is the equal of Takion who was able to stalemate the ares weilding godwave. Takion says that DS is more powerful than he. Highfather says so as well and feared DS would destroy Takion on site.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlI'd be perfectly happy to accept this if DS was once again shown to be the uber-villain he should be. His losses to Superman (and Doomsday, if it wasn't an avatar), simply hurt his reputation. There's no way around it. DC needs to portray him as levels above Superman and like folk again. Can you imagine the nightmare if he follows the same reputational path as a certain X-villain? *shivers*
I see there are some serious idiots when it comes to DS. Two loses to Superman, which are very formulative and had the craziest circumstances, Do not discount the thousands of Times, DS casually pimp slapped superman. And most of those were avatars.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
*gets out the old umbrella to deflect a downpour of fanboy water*That's all opinion at this point. My opinion is that T&A are a little below Galactus, but still above characters like Darkseid, Thanos, Mephisto, Odin, ect. Of course, the stalwart DC proponent cannot except this, because if Surfer manages to take on an opponent(s) stronger than DS, then Norrin has an excellent chance of defeating any GL, Orion, even DS himself.
Discussion is still moot at this point, because we don't know how the Surfer vs. T&A fight is going to go down.
One more thing, DC is doing something really huge where man shall fall and it's called the countdown. Guess who's the big player of this event? Take one guess. I bet you can't. A stone faced Cosmic Diety who is being written to his former glory and then some.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlOh, that it might be so. Do you know who's writing the story? Will Superman get his can kicked properly?
One more thing, DC is doing something really huge where man shall fall and it's called the countdown. Guess who's the big player of this event? Take one guess. I bet you can't. A stone faced Cosmic Diety who is being written to his former glory and then some.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Oh, that it might be so. Do you know who's writing the story? Will Superman get his can kicked properly?
There are a lot of writers. Paul Dini is the head script guy. I know that it's going to be a lot of action and will have everyone in the DCU in it. They won't let much out of the bag, just saying that DS will have a major hand in what ever Universal lvl disaster is about to happen.
I've nothing against, Supes, BTW, I just want Darkseid's reputation to be restored. I'm really curious to see if Countdown can do better than 52. Weekly comics are so difficult to produce and still get that good story and art. DC seems to be perfecting the process. I just hope DS doesn't get reduced to the level of his animated counterpart.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
I've nothing against, Supes, BTW, I just want Darkseid's reputation to be restored. I'm really curious to see if Countdown can do better than 52. Weekly comics are so difficult to produce and still get that good story and art. DC seems to be perfecting the process. I just hope DS doesn't get reduced to the level of his animated counterpart.
They were going for that when they were writing him down. DC tends to do stupid shit like that to try and get the cartoon crowd in. But we know how well that works. Grant Morrison was setting DS up to be a major player. And from what I read, DS will be written to uber lvls in the Countdown. We can only wait and see tho. It's going to be a long year until it concludes.