Close. I didn't ask if you found it worrying. I said I did.
"Do you think it's any better that there are people willing to go and fight for Bush's cause, believing it's the right thing to do? The one's who aren't moaning, and are ok with it, I mean.".
Unless I've grossly misunderstood you, and you are in support of Bush, for some reason...
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Close. I didn't ask if you found it worrying. I said I did."Do you think it's any better that there are people willing to go and fight for Bush's cause, believing it's the right thing to do? The one's who aren't moaning, and are ok with it, I mean.".
Unless I've grossly misunderstood you, and you are in support of Bush, for some reason...
-AC
That's a loaded question... If I don't worry about it, then obviously I don't think it's better or worse. People sign up for varied reasons, if they sign up solely because they think "it's the right thing to do", so be it; it's their choice. I for one won't be joining the military (I did come close in the early 90's though) especially while we have a Republican in office, if the draft goes into affect, then I'm ****ed.
No, I didn't vote for Bush either time and I am not a fan of his or the majority of his policies. That's a far cry though from the "BUSH; MASTER OF ALL EVIL!", that some people trumpet about.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, I don't believe that. And I don't blame them that they are used for unjust purposes...but, that does in no way mean that I have to particularly respect it.
So that goes back to: Soldiers are necessary, but 'you're' stupid if you join. I think that is a foolish line of thinking.
Originally posted by Robtard
So that goes back to: Soldiers are necessary, but 'you're' stupid if you join. I think that is a foolish line of thinking.
That is not at all what I said, you might be confusing me and AC here.
I agree that soldiers are necessary. That doesn't mean they deserve special respect (generally)
A soldier that is not necessary. Signs voluntarily up to fight an unjust aggressive war in a foreign country, passing the chance of becoming a well paid pro athlete with cheerleaders sucking him dawn to dusk and getting himself killed by his own comrades, throwing his family and friends in misery does also not deserve respect. And, dare I say it, is, like AC would say, stupid. (this specific case)
Originally posted by Robtard
That's a loaded question... If I don't worry about it, then obviously I don't think it's better or worse. People sign up for varied reasons, if they sign up solely because they think "it's the right thing to do", so be it; it's their choice. I for one won't be joining the military (I did come close in the early 90's though) especially while we have a Republican in office, if the draft goes into affect, then I'm ****ed.No, I didn't vote for Bush either time and I am not a fan of his or the majority of his policies. That's a far cry though from the "BUSH; MASTER OF ALL EVIL!", that some people trumpet about.
Well, yeah. I think Bush is a dangerous man just because he is using power irresponsibly and with oppression. I think he's making the world a more dangerous place, but I don't act like he's responsible for cancer and such.
If people sign up to fight for Bush's war, then they're part of the problem, not solution. Because the entire "war" is an undeniable shambles.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And yet, you claim that you aren't fit to serve, in which case the draft wouldn't apply to you anyway. You've slipped up so much that you're confusing yourself now.You aren't going to volunteer because you're an armchair supporter of troops. Everything you've said so far suggests that you are able to and that you're making excuses.
And you aren't, which is why you're using phrases like "little lady", haha. You've been found out, just accept it.
You can run as fast as you did three years before the injury, and you're now in late 30s. That's recovery, that is recovered. It's most CERTAINLY recovery enough to join the armed forces. You're either lying about the severity of your injuries, being injured at all, or being in good condition. The three can't be together.
You can keep saying "running and hiding" as if it makes me look worse, and I'll just keep letting it roll off my back while you continue struggling to justify your "inability" to volunteer.
What you are saying doesn't add up. You aren't fit enough to volunteer, but you're fit enough to run at the speed you did when you were 17. You AREN'T fit enough to volunteer...yet if forced into the draft, you would somehow be of acceptable quality.
It's obvious. You won't volunteer for the same reasons I don't want to, because you are afraid of war and you're afraid of being killed in one. You like the idea of going, fighting for the "cause", but you won't do it. You're an armchair supporter.
-AC
1. Somehow this debate has strayed off course. All I ever said is that if there were a draft right now that i would join up, that I would not run. I never said that i would up and volunteer at this point in my life. I said that if i were 20 years old again, if I had it to do all over again, that I would up and volunteer. At age 20, I had nothing going on. no relationship, no career, pretty much beer and hanging out. Now I am in a committed relationship and am neck deep in a potentially lucrative career, so of course i would'nt volunteer. but, as I stated above, if there were a draft, I would not dodge it.
2. as far as the injury goes, it's real. believe it or not, its up to you. and just because i can run as fast as i could years ago doesnt mean i am not more prone to reinjuring the ankle. of course i can do all of the things i did before, there is just a higher chance of reinjuring myself.
3. i am not slipping up, and i am not confusing myself. my posts are to the point and direct, you are just failing to see it that way. whether this is intentional or not, i do not know nor do i care.
now you can read this thoroughly and accept it, or you can dissect it as you always do and twist it around to suit your own needs.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
1. Somehow this debate has strayed off course. All I ever said is that if there were a draft right now that i would join up, that I would not run. I never said that i would up and volunteer at this point in my life. I said that if i were 20 years old again, if I had it to do all over again, that I would up and volunteer. At age 20, I had nothing going on. no relationship, no career, pretty much beer and hanging out. Now I am in a committed relationship and am neck deep in a potentially lucrative career, so of course i would'nt volunteer. but, as I stated above, if there were a draft, I would not dodge it.
So now it all comes out.
The reason you wouldn't volunteer is because you have a life you are happy with and don't wish to throw it away by going to war for no reason. Good for you. Funny, because Pat Tillman did the opposite, I critiqued him for it, and you said he deserves respect. Despite it being, obviously, not the wisest choice in the book.
You wouldn't go for very similar reasons as me. So maybe next time think before you go calling me a coward, or less of a man for - shock horror - not wanting to go to war. You don't want to go either, for similar reasons.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
2. as far as the injury goes, it's real. believe it or not, its up to you. and just because i can run as fast as i could years ago doesnt mean i am not more prone to reinjuring the ankle. of course i can do all of the things i did before, there is just a higher chance of reinjuring myself.
How is there? If you recovered fully, enough to be able to do things you did when you were 17...in late 30s, what makes you think you're more injury prone? Are you basing that on nothing? It's clearly not an injury that slowed you down or nags at you. This is why I smell bs, I don't believe you.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
3. i am not slipping up, and i am not confusing myself. my posts are to the point and direct, you are just failing to see it that way. whether this is intentional or not, i do not know nor do i care.
Again, next time maybe think before knee-jerking and I won't have to do this again. Calling a man a coward because he doesn't want to go to war, many of the reasons being the same as your reasons for not going, as revealed above, is pathetic.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
now you can read this thoroughly and accept it, or you can dissect it as you always do and twist it around to suit your own needs.
I haven't twisted anything you've said. Your stories have been twisted by default, but hopefully this is a lesson learned.
After everything, we share a lot of reasons for not wanting to go to war, so maybe think before labelling me again. Saying "I'd not volunteer, but I'd go if I was forced." isn't anything to be proud about.
Being proud that you willingly accept something you have no choice but to accept is nonsensical. You would be forced to do this, but to achieve manly aura, you would further exclaim how you will not shy away from it, despite not being able to shy away from it anyway. I have no proof or reason to believe that you would volunteer willingly, and I don't trust your word, so all I have is "I'd do it with pride if forced!", which essentially means nothing.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So now it all comes out.The reason you wouldn't volunteer is because you have a life you are happy with and don't wish to throw it away by going to war for no reason. Good for you. Funny, because Pat Tillman did the opposite, I critiqued him for it, and you said he deserves respect. Despite it being, obviously, not the wisest choice in the book.
You wouldn't go for very similar reasons as me. So maybe next time think before you go calling me a coward, or less of a man for - shock horror - not wanting to go to war. You don't want to go either, for similar reasons.
How is there? If you recovered fully, enough to be able to do things you did when you were 17...in late 30s, what makes you think you're more injury prone? Are you basing that on nothing? It's clearly not an injury that slowed you down or nags at you. This is why I smell bs, I don't believe you.
Again, next time maybe think before knee-jerking and I won't have to do this again. Calling a man a coward because he doesn't want to go to war, many of the reasons being the same as your reasons for not going, as revealed above, is pathetic.
I haven't twisted anything you've said. Your stories have been twisted by default, but hopefully this is a lesson learned.
After everything, we share a lot of reasons for not wanting to go to war, so maybe think before labelling me again. Saying "I'd not volunteer, but I'd go if I was forced." isn't anything to be proud about.
Being proud that you willingly accept something you have no choice but to accept is nonsensical. You would be forced to do this, but to achieve manly aura, you would further exclaim how you will not shy away from it, despite not being able to shy away from it anyway. I have no proof or reason to believe that you would volunteer willingly, and I don't trust your word, so all I have is "I'd do it with pride if forced!", which essentially means nothing.
-AC
as far as the here and now goes, i said that if there were a draft i would not dodge it. i can also tell you are upset that i called you a coward earlier. i was probably out of line, and for that i apologize. you have your beliefs and own set of morals, and you are entitled to those.
as far as Tillman goes, he made his choice. and he was killed for it. i respect him for making that choice, and you do not. lets leave it at that.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
why do you keep going back to me volunteering now? i never said i would volunteer now. i said if i were 19 or 20 again i would volunteer. you keep going back to this as if it has any bearing on the subject at hand. am i supposed to up and volunteer because you and someone else are daring me to? are we playing according to schoolhouse rules? if so, give me your lunch money.
Because I have a distaste for people who call others cowards for not doing one thing, when they wouldn't do it themselves.
You taking pride in not trying to get out of something you're being forced to do...makes no sense. It doesn't make you any more of a hero or a man. If anything, making the CHOICE would give your argument more weight, as you'd be putting your money where your mouth is.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as far as the here and now goes, i said that if there were a draft i would not dodge it. i can also tell you are upset that i called you a coward earlier. i was probably out of line, and for that i apologize. you have your beliefs and own set of morals, and you are entitled to those.
Not upset, confused. Confused as to where this common belief comes from and why it's accepted.
Not wanting to fight in a war = Cowardice. Not just me, but anyone. It's not cowardice at all.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
as far as Tillman goes, he made his choice. and he was killed for it. i respect him for making that choice, and you do not. lets leave it at that.
If agree to disagree is your stance, you could have said it from the start.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because I have a distaste for people who call others cowards for not doing one thing, when they wouldn't do it themselves.You taking pride in not trying to get out of something you're being forced to do...makes no sense. It doesn't make you any more of a hero or a man. If anything, making the CHOICE would give your argument more weight, as you'd be putting your money where your mouth is.
Not upset, confused. Confused as to where this common belief comes from and why it's accepted.
Not wanting to fight in a war = Cowardice. Not just me, but anyone. It's not cowardice at all.
If agree to disagree is your stance, you could have said it from the start.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you say that now, but trust me.....
Well, basically like you say now that you would if you were younger.
We have nothing to go on.
AC made a good point. You don't go now for the same reasons AC and I won't go. And you respect him because Tillman went leaving the more reasonable option YOU, AC and I chose....I don't respect that. I don't lack enough self-esteem to pretend that my decisions are not correct.
Now, I am not saying he is an idiot, he did what he wanted to, that's alright with me, but he got himself killed doing something he signed up for....well, I don't see where there should be more respect that for anyone else.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
everything evolved from me saying "if there were a draft, i would not run, i would join up" to you guys saying "join up now, volunteer."they are two totally different scenarios. no, i dont want to be in the service and be shipped off to war. but, if drafted, i would do it.
No, sorry, that is in no way what this is.
It is us saying that you respect someone for an action you wouldn't do. Which is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, sorry, that is in no way what this is.It is us saying that you respect someone for an action you wouldn't do. Which is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i dont know if i have it in me to draw a weapon on someone
Let's see that in an instant replay:
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i dont know if i have it in me to draw a weapon on someone
I'm struggling to see how that fits next to your "I'd do my duty like a man." and "If I was 20 I WOULD volunteer." mentalities.
PROBABLY because it completely contradicts them.
-AC