Originally posted by Kinneary
It is in regards to "Nah... they can keep them. America abducts people all over the globe."Not that I agree that if they were American they had the right to keep them, but it seems this person doesn't realize the difference between the words British and American.
No, I understood, I agreed. I just wanted to add that it shouldn't matter whether they were British or American.
Wait, let me get this straight.
Its ok to throw people in Gautama Bay and Belmarsh Prison, by British government, on the suspicion of ''terrorism'', but when Iranians capture marines from people who consistantly potray themselves as ''enemies'' of Iran, are in ''coalition of the willing'', initially supporting the view that iran is in ''Axes of Evil'', they should be released immediately. Right.
Iran views West as enemies. This isn't very complicated.
Furthermore, Iranians didn't go around ''looking for soldiers to capture'' they claimed that British marines have strayed onto Iranian waters, adn thus were captred.
You cannot bang the war drum against Iran constantly, then when Iran responds - we demand immidiate release.
If Iranians were caught floating around America and Britain, they would have been captured under the suspicion of ''terrorism'', and probably expored to Guatama Bay or Belmarsh Prison, also under some kind of twisted Iranian nuclear conspiracy added into is as well.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Wait, let me get this straight.Its ok to throw people in Gautama Bay and Belmarsh Prison, by British government, on the suspicion of ''terrorism'', but when Iranians capture marines from people who consistantly potray themselves as ''enemies'' of Iran, are in ''coalition of the willing'', initially supporting the view that iran is in ''Axes of Evil'', they should be released immediately. Right.
Iran views West as enemies. This isn't very complicated.
Furthermore, Iranians didn't go around ''looking for soldiers to capture'' they claimed that British marines have strayed onto Iranian waters, adn thus were captred.
You cannot bang the war drum against Iran constantly, then when Iran responds - we demand immidiate release.If Iranians were caught floating around America and Britain, they would have been captured under the suspicion of ''terrorism'', and probably expored to Guatama Bay or Belmarsh Prison, also under some kind of twisted Iranian nuclear conspiracy added into is as well.
If armed Iranian soliders started hanging around the Channel, then yes, we probably would intern them, though we'd probably release soon after. But if they were NOT in our waters, or waters under our jurisdiction, we wouldn't do anything.
I hate to re-state the point here, but they were not in Iranian waters.
So to your points, I will have two things to say:
1. Two wrongs don't make a right
2. Your examples don't correlate, at no point being done at a point where internationals would not recognise the legitimacy (the legitmacy questions at Guantanomo are about due process, not the legality of taking prisoners)
And if you want to say that the Americans have secrely and illegally kidnapped anyone... then fine, that is wrong too, but that is something they keep secret that would have to bre exposed.
This is very different, it is being done publically, pretending it is something legitimate and permissbale when it so obviously is not. That's why it is such a dumb move for the Iranians. They are already internationally isolated, now they are pissing even MORE people off. Not just the west. When Iran pulls stunts like this, it gets a "Stop being such bloody idiots" response from Pakistan and Turkey.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness Wait, let me get this straight.Its ok to throw people in Gautama Bay and Belmarsh Prison, by British government, on the suspicion of ''terrorism'', but when Iranians capture marines from people who consistantly potray themselves as ''enemies'' of Iran, are in ''coalition of the willing'', initially supporting the view that iran is in ''Axes of Evil'', they should be released immediately. Right.
Iran views West as enemies. This isn't very complicated.
Furthermore, Iranians didn't go around ''looking for soldiers to capture'' they claimed that British marines have strayed onto Iranian waters, adn thus were captred.
You cannot bang the war drum against Iran constantly, then when Iran responds - we demand immidiate release.
If Iranians were caught floating around America and Britain, they would have been captured under the suspicion of ''terrorism'', and probably expored to Guatama Bay or Belmarsh Prison, also under some kind of twisted Iranian nuclear conspiracy added into is as well.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Uh, they're not at war and the Brits weren't in their terrority. Yes, they should be released immediately. We wouldn't grab Iranians in Iran's waters and take them prisoner.We're [b]not
at war. Do you understand?Any evidence of this, or are you just spouting? [/B]
And do you lack reading comprehantion? I never said they WERE in a war.
USA is not in a War with Korea, but its still considered Axes of Evil, and evemy.
Bush says -
‘’[Our goal] is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction.
Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September the 11th. But we know their true nature. North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.
Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade.
This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens—leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children.
This is a regime that agreed to international inspections—then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world.
States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger.
They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred.
They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.’’– George W. Bush, 2002 State of the Union Address
Why dont you go google Belmarsh prison to see what its used for. You're on the internet. Use it.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Wait, let me get this straight.Its ok to throw people in Gautama Bay and Belmarsh Prison, by British government, on the suspicion of ''terrorism'', but when Iranians capture marines from people who consistantly potray themselves as ''enemies'' of Iran, are in ''coalition of the willing'', initially supporting the view that iran is in ''Axes of Evil'', they should be released immediately. Right.
Iran views West as enemies. This isn't very complicated.
Furthermore, Iranians didn't go around ''looking for soldiers to capture'' they claimed that British marines have strayed onto Iranian waters, adn thus were captred.
You cannot bang the war drum against Iran constantly, then when Iran responds - we demand immidiate release.If Iranians were caught floating around America and Britain, they would have been captured under the suspicion of ''terrorism'', and probably expored to Guatama Bay or Belmarsh Prison, also under some kind of twisted Iranian nuclear conspiracy added into is as well.
so the Iranians are the good guys?
America and Britian has good cause to suspect Iranians and muslim extremists of terrorism. Iran has made thier views of the western civilization well known. I highly doubt The British sailors were doing anything that was suspicious. Spy technology allows countries to spy on each other from anywhere in the world.
I'm not saying the actions being taken in Guantanomo bay are righteous, but it is apart of war. What about the torture techniques the Sunnis and shiites inflict on American soldiers, muslim citizens etc. torture is found in the midst of every war. It's not right, just the way of things. I'm of mind that if it takes the torture of people to secure a way of life. It is an evil that must be executed.
I dont think many people trully understand how vulnerable the western way of life is. It would not take very much at all to end Democracy world wide.
also, the british had the oppertunity to send out a naval company, but diddnt.
why does everyone always give pity to the enemies? I remember in second grade. We had a project to make one thousand cranes in our class to send to a japanese organization that promotes awarness to the hardships that japanese prisoners of war and america japanese citizens under went during WWII.
Japanese and German prisoners of war were treated with the upmost repect and given more than American soldiers were on frontlines. Japanese tortured and killed American Pows regularly, and never took the geneva convetion under consideration
you make some very good points though bitchiness. however, we live in a different age where disputing countries are no longer able to live in piece, and everyone is for fault for this, not just the Western world.
At the essence of this situation (to me) appears to be a country that has kidnapped british citizens to make a statement, not to enforce their rights due to suspicion of wrong doings. Iran is engaged in a chess game with the WEstern world. They know the world is watching, and are waiting for mistakes to be made on the English and or American part to gain world sentiment.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think (I don't know for sure) they are being forced to confess. The Iranians have made prisoners falsely confess in the past.
In any case, Sailors and Marines should never break silence and loyalty. Brittle minds should have rang that bell earlier at their training camps.
Shame.
Originally posted by GCG
In any case, Sailors and Marines should never break silence and loyalty. Brittle minds should have rang that bell earlier at their training camps.Shame.
Don't be so quick to judge... Let's see you not 'confess' to lies when someone is holding a red-hot iron poker next to your eye. Besides, they're sailors & marines; not covert spies, regular military doesn't generally receive training like that.
Originally posted by Robtard
Don't be so quick to judge... Let's see you not 'confess' to lies when someone is holding a red-hot iron poker next to your eye. Besides, they're sailors & marines; not covert spies, regular military doesn't generally receive training like that.
I would imagine they do receive basic training in regards to capture and confinement in Britain.
Originally posted by Robtard
Don't be so quick to judge... Let's see you not 'confess' to lies when someone is holding a red-hot iron poker next to your eye. Besides, they're sailors & marines; not covert spies, regular military doesn't generally receive training like that.
Am O quick to kudge ? How cerain ard we tyat bounfraies were respected as it seems that sowem people here xomment mnore than on what they should.
1 thing is for sure : If erhe sailors stayed on board the Cornwall, they would not have been capture/.
PS. My keyb oard is f*//- up ; Sorry Q