Its everywhere!!!!!!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The music isn't to blame. Music doesn't make people shoot guns, people can try and say music was the inspiration to do so, but those people are idiots. It's not the music's fault in any case, it's the idiots' fault for thinking it's ok to copy what they hear on record.

Yeah but that doesnt help me at all. The fact of the matter is its happening and something needs to be done about it. Im not disputing that its stupid what im pissed off about is that it happens.

Hip hip is not the root of the problem, but it defintely is a factor

Originally posted by Alfheim

Furthermore its not always poverty. As Asha D (rapper) put it he was from a lower middle class background, some of these kids arent in poverty at all they are just copying rap music...so no the music is to blame as well.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
gures? What? Oh yes, let's ignore facts just because they disprove what you believe.

Are you just arguing for the sake of it? Read and comprehend. So the fcat that I live in the envinromnet doesnt count for anything. What im saying is this there is theory and practical ie theory and real life and in rea life it suggests that gun crime is growing amonsgt black youth. Oh and the figures show that gun crime is growing amsongst black youth in london....those are the figures.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I've live in south london so I know what goes on. When you get on the bus and you get two black youth saying such and such got shot then you know guns crime has increased. Forgot about the figures I live in the envinroment. I dont hear other minorities glorify guns like some black people do.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

You can't go to Canada? What are you on about?

Most nonsensical fool ever,

-AC

Of course I can go to Canada im just pissed off because something similar is happening as well...it seems

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's called hip hop, first of all. Rap is what hip hop MCs do, it's not the name of the genre.

Two; You said it. Young impressionable minds. It's not the music's fault. Gangsta orientated hip hop came after, original hip hop wasn't anything to do with glorifying crime. I suggest you brush up on the ol' research.

-AC

jesus christ who cares what its called. When i go into a musci store looking for "hip hop" ( which i never would) and ask to se the rap section, guess what? They will show me to the hip hop section. Alternate rock, techno rock, classic rock is still rock. Your seriously splitting hairs over the technicalities of the difference between rap and hip hop. Most of the modern world associates rap with hip hop.

I wasnt trying to condem your shitty, uninspired, melody absent music genre. I was actually trying to support it by saying it has very little if any effect on gun crimes.

Im not sure you are aware, but during the early 90's during the birth of gansta rap ( which is hip hop but referred to as rap) was connected to the gang epidemic which stormed through California, and later spread to the east coast cities.

The reason RAP music is stigmatized with gun crimes is because it is the music of choice of "gangstas" and has very clear lyrics. The exact same reason death metal is stigmatized and related to Hate crimes by skinheads and neo nazis.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but that doesnt help me at all. The fact of the matter is its happening and something needs to be done about it. Im not disputing that its stupid what im pissed off about is that it happens.

Hip hip is not the root of the problem, but it defintely is a factor.

I don't care that it doesn't help you. You're pissed that gun crime happens, well welcome to Planet Earth. It will always happen, I suggest you deal. I don't like it, but it will always be there.

Hip hop may be CITED as a factor, but it isn't to blame, at all. Music doesn't kill people.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Are you just arguing for the sake of it? Read and comprehend. So the fcat that I live in the envinromnet doesnt count for anything. What im saying is this there is theory and practical ie theory and real life and in rea life it suggests that gun crime is growing amonsgt black youth. Oh and the figures show that gun crime is growing amsongst black youth in london....those are the figures.

Figures are facts, what you've experienced does not overrule them, is my point.

You can't discard facts because you saw differently.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Of course I can go to Canada im just pissed off because something similar is happening as well...it seems

Have you just been born? Are you just discovering things for the first time?

Yes, crime happens everywhere.

-AC

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
jesus christ who cares what its called. When i go into a musci store looking for "hip hop" ( which i never would) and ask to se the rap section, guess what? They will show me to the hip hop section. Alternate rock, techno rock, classic rock is still rock. Your seriously splitting hairs over the technicalities of the difference between rap and hip hop. Most of the modern world associates rap with hip hop.

It's an accepted term, that doesn't make it a correct one.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I wasnt trying to condem your shitty, uninspired, melody absent music genre. I was actually trying to support it by saying it has very little if any effect on gun crimes.

MY genre? It's a genre that has a few artists I like, I'm not married to it. The fact that you are speaking about it and condemning it (Which is what you are doing.) without knowing anything about it besides what you see on TV just proves you're an ignorant fool.

If someone said "Rock is just screaming and stupid noise." because they heard some shitty bands, what would you say? Exactly.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Im not sure you are aware, but during the early 90's during the birth of gansta rap ( which is hip hop but referred to as rap) was connected to the gang epidemic which stormed through California, and later spread to the east coast cities.

Yes, I am aware of my music history. Gangsta "rap" didn't come first, that's not how hip hop was born.

Connected because coincidentally, people who were involved with the genre were also up to no good, the music isn't at fault, which is what Alfheim is disputing.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
The reason RAP music is stigmatized with gun crimes is because it is the music of choice of "gangstas" and has very clear lyrics. The exact same reason death metal is stigmatized and related to Hate crimes by skinheads and neo nazis.

Why capitalise "Rap"? It's called hip hop. It's all hip hop. I understand "rap" is an accepted term, but it's incorrect. Just make sure you're aware of that.

Either way, we're suggesting that it gets stigmatised, so that doesn't prove the music is at fault, it's not, and that's all I'm saying.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Music isn't to blame for what people do, people are to blame for what people do.

Hip hop is a genuine form of music and you're a fool for thinking otherwise. Like it or not, it's a genuine form of music.

That's like saying Britney Spears doesn't make music just because you dislike it.

-AC

I'd like to agree with AC and say that we have to give people credit enough to say that they are able to separate fictional reality from reality itself, and don't commit crimes based on Rap/hip-hop music, GTA games, or by watching I Know What You Did Last Summer.

That being said, I'd also like to take a shot while my window's open. I took a major dump last night and I have hereby proclaimed the conception of it as music. 😛

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't care that it doesn't help you. You're pissed that gun crime happens, well welcome to Planet Earth. It will always happen, I suggest you deal. I don't like it, but it will always be there.

Were not talking about gun crime in general. We are talking about gun crime in the black community.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Hip hop may be CITED as a factor, but it isn't to blame, at all. Music doesn't kill people.

Yes it is because most of the black people into gun crime are into hip hop. I know this from real life.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Figures are facts,

Well there not all the time actually but again since you love figures so much...I repeat..

Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh and the figures show that gun crime is growing amsongst black youth in london....those are the figures.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

what you've experienced does not overrule them, is my point.

You can't discard facts because you saw differently.

Ok let me explain this concept to you. Theory and practical. Theory states that such and such should happen, practical is an implementation of that theory....what happens sometimes is that the theory has to change because when you apply it in real life you see that some of the aspects of the theory is wrong.

What am saying is that my experiences are an example of practical and it shows its growing amongst black youth.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Have you just been born? Are you just discovering things for the first time?

Yes, crime happens everywhere.

-AC

Im not talking about gun crime in general im talking about crime amongst the black community.

If Hip Hop's to blame for any of this..blame it on the new Hip Hop culture. Not the music. Violence isn't Hip Hop. People kill people, not music.

Don't use a form of entertainment as a scapegoat for societies woes.

Originally posted by The Core
If Hip Hop's to blame for any of this..blame it on the new Hip Hop culture. Not the music. Violence isn't Hip Hop. People kill people, not music.

Don't use a form of entertainment as a scapegoat for societies woes.

Bro im not saying its the root cause but it is a factor.

Maybe, but, like I've mentioned in the music forums time and time again, "Hip Hop" is a shell of what it used to stand for. How it's represented in the mainstream now, isn't how it was ever intended to be perceived. Any element of Hip Hop being considered "mainstream" is the biggest tip off.

Originally posted by The Core
Maybe, but, like I've mentioned in the music forums time and time again, "Hip Hop" is a shell of what it used to stand for. How it's represented in the mainstream now, isn't how it was ever intended to be perceived.

Yeah I know that, but thats not whats happening now is it?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Were not talking about gun crime in general. We are talking about gun crime in the black community.

In London, you mean?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes it is because most of the black people into gun crime are into hip hop. I know this from real life.

No, you know it from your experiences. You don't know that for a fact, all encompassing. It's a gross generalisation.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well there not all the time actually but again since you love figures so much...I repeat..

Yes, proven statistics and figures are facts. No denying this.

Gun crime growing amongst black youths doesn't imply anything about hip hop MUSIC, at all.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok let me explain this concept to you. Theory and practical. Theory states that such and such should happen, practical is an implementation of that theory....what happens sometimes is that the theory has to change because when you apply it in real life you see that some of the aspects of the theory is wrong.

Theory isn't fact, it's theory. Proven stats are fact. Proven stats say it's an escalating situation in black community, so what? That means nothing in relation to music.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What am saying is that my experiences are an example of practical and it shows its growing amongst black youth.

Shows no connection to music, though. No factual link. Just coincidence.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's an accepted term, that doesn't make it a correct one.

MY genre? It's a genre that has a few artists I like, I'm not married to it. The fact that you are speaking about it and condemning it (Which is what you are doing.) without knowing anything about it besides what you see on TV just proves you're an ignorant fool.

If someone said "Rock is just screaming and stupid noise." because they heard some shitty bands, what would you say? Exactly.

-AC

I know quite a bit about the RAP world. At one time i was a blind fool whom followed the bandwagon of rap popularity. I can even recite the rappers believed to be the founding fathers. That however is not the point, i dont need to be a rap historian to know when the negative connotations started surrounding it. Of course gangsta rap came after the birth of hip hop, but the fact of the matter is, Gangsta rap gave hip hop the stigma of being responsible for fueling hate crimes in the world of inner city gangs.

Is t.v not a source of education? Assuming that is where i got my knowledge on the subject. Most Rap fans follow their favorite rappers and learn about the genre through t.v. My knowledge and views of Rap and it's connection to society come from living, being around the crowd that it inspires, and observing the type of language and actions that it inspires people to embrace.

I will forever refer to it as rap because to me, the actual rap is the only real thing on a rap album. hip hop is supposed to be a combination of rap and harminous beats to create music, and that music genre is hip hop. I dont consider beats to be music. This is my opinion. I may personally attack the genre, but i dont condem it. I'm not the one saying it is responsible for crimes and the dumbing down of a generation. I only attack the lagitimacy of the genre being considered music I could care less what you say about rock, i would listen to your views and debate them with you. I wouldnt attack your knowledge or intelligence. there is no way to gain a glimpse of your perspective this way.

The genre and the term has been bastardized. How can KRS-One & The Game be considered as the same form? Two different lyrical styles, two different LIFESTYLES, which is what gets me. One advocates knowledge, the other? Violence.

In the end, they're guilty by association? Why can't we just blame PEOPLE for what goes on? I remember the whole Tupac incident where the kid was supposedly "driven to kill" by his music.

There are kids that want to immulate the lifestyle of "Hip Hop" artists.
Note the quotations because I use the term as loosely as it's freely thrown upon artists that are considered in the same game. What's being represented by said artists IS..NOT..HIP..HOP.

That's why I'm proud, in my mind, that I can distinguish the true heads from those who took advantage of the "ugly" Rap tag being dropped by the media. The same media that wants to place the blame on those evil, evil Hip Hoppers.

It's all just bullshit, like I said. People kill people out of being a product of their environment. Music is entertainment. You see Ice Cube's making a sequel to "Are We There Yet?". He's an entertainer. His music is a form of entertainment. Glorifications abound. Cultural, financial, whatever.

Make the distinction here and place the blame where it really belongs. It's like a neverending witchhunt.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
In London, you mean?

Everywhere and in partcularly London, obvoulsy because I live here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

No, you know it from your experiences. You don't know that for a fact, all encompassing. It's a gross generalisation.

So that doesnt count for anything. Im just supposed to ignore it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Yes, proven statistics and figures are facts. No denying this.

Er if you say so..but it works fine for me.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Gun crime growing amongst black youths doesn't imply anything about hip hop MUSIC, at all.

Ok so let me get this straight.......gun crime is growing amongst black youth in london most of them listen to hip hop...or garage as we call it in the Uk. The music glorfies the use of guns and there is no connection?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Theory isn't fact, it's theory. Proven stats are fact. Proven stats say it's an escalating situation in black community, so what? That means nothing in relation to music.

Bro...you dont know stats are used to create theory? Anyway I was just trying to draw an analogy you completely missed my point....i dont think I want to explain again.

Again....

Ok so let me get this straight.......gun crime is growing amongst black youth in london most of them listen to hip hop...or garage as we call it in the Uk. The music glorfies the use of guns and there is no connection?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Shows no connection to music, though. No factual link. Just coincidence.

-AC

Why am I going to bother to get you a link so far you're wasting my time...I mean I can get you one link, but as far as I can see you're just beign argumentative.

Hell if gun crime is increasing amongst balck youth and hip hop is the most popular music...which glorifies guns....and you're telling me there is no connection, you are obvoulsy in denail.

Originally posted by The Core
The genre and the term has been bastardized. How can KRS-One & The Game be considered as the same form? Two different lyrical styles, two different LIFESTYLES, which is what gets me. One advocates knowledge, the other? Violence.

In the end, they're guilty by association? Why can't we just blamePEOPLE for what goes on? I remember the whole Tupac incident where the kid was supposedly "driven to kill" by his music.

There are kids that want to immulate the lifestyle of "Hip Hop" artists.
Note the quotations because I use the term as loosely as it's freely thrown upon artists that are considered in the same game. What's being represented by said artists IS..NOT..HIP..HOP.

That's why I'm proud, in my mind, that I can distinguish the true heads from those who took advantage of the "ugly" Rap tag being dropped by the media. The same media that wants to place the blame on those evil, evil Hip Hoppers.

It's all just bullshit, like I said. People kill people out of being a product of their environment. Music is entertainment. You see Ice Cube's making a sequel to "Are We There Yet?". He's an entertainer. His music is a form of entertainment. Glorifications abound. Cultural, financial, whatever.

Make the distinction here and place the blame where it really belongs. It's like a neverending witchhunt.

I understand the distcintion and we are arguing about nothing.
Furthermore I know even in the presnet day not all hip hop is about guns.

I dont think there is anything there which you said which I dont agree with.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I know quite a bit about the RAP world. At one time i was a blind fool whom followed the bandwagon of rap popularity. I can even recite the rappers believed to be the founding fathers. That however is not the point, i dont need to be a rap historian to know when the negative connotations started surrounding it. Of course gangsta rap came after the birth of hip hop, but the fact of the matter is, Gangsta rap gave hip hop the stigma of being responsible for fueling hate crimes in the world of inner city gangs.

You are a blind fool and apparantly you have no real knowledge outside of what's been fed to you. For one, the laziness of calling it "rap" and painting all MCs with a single brush.

Nobody is denying the connotations, but that's all they are. There's no signficant connection.

You're being stupid making comments saying that hip hop isn't real music. Of course it's real music you fool.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Is t.v not a source of education? Assuming that is where i got my knowledge on the subject. Most Rap fans follow their favorite rappers and learn about the genre through t.v.

Which is precisely why most "rap" fans think 50 Cent and Lloyd Banks are true hip hop, which is probably the people and music you are thinking of.

If you let TV tell you what to call things and who to look at as representatives of a genre, then you're being ignorant.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
My knowledge and views of Rap and it's connection to society come from living, being around the crowd that it inspires, and observing the type of language and actions that it inspires people to embrace.

A crowd. There isn't a specific crowd of people it inspires.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I will forever refer to it as rap because to me, the actual rap is the only real thing on a rap album. hip hop is supposed to be a combination of rap and harminous beats to create music, and that music genre is hip hop. I dont consider beats to be music. This is my opinion. I may personally attack the genre, but i dont condem it. I'm not the one saying it is responsible for crimes and the dumbing down of a generation. I only attack the lagitimacy of the genre being considered music I could care less what you say about rock, i would listen to your views and debate them with you. I wouldnt attack your knowledge or intelligence. there is no way to gain a glimpse of your perspective this way.

Rapping is just an act, it's not a genre. The genre is hip hop which contains the act of rapping. Rap is an accepted term for the genre, I accept that you use it, but the fact that you seem to believe it's a CORRECT label suggests you don't know what you're on about.

You are wrong, though, in saying beats can't be music. As long as there is a human touch applied to the creation of music, that's what it will be. The fact that you think music can only exist if there's people playing instruments is retarded and archaic. If you went back to when music was first created and showed them an electric guitar, I'm sure they'd say about guitars what you are saying about electronically created beats.

So no, you holding that opinion does not bestow upon you some kind of magical barrier. You're wrong and you're illogical, it's not a matter of what you AREN'T saying, because what you ARE saying is false.

-AC

See why using "Hip Hop" as an all encompassing genre tag really exasperates things? Who in the bloody hell decided to change that, anyway?

Hip Hop CULTURE doesn't advocate or glorify violence. Hip Hop MUSIC may, which is ridiculous because you can't use the term two describe two totally different things, blame one, and not have the other be equally as guilty.

It's just sad how the term's being misued, and for monetary gain, so it seems.

Originally posted by The Core
See why using "Hip Hop" as an all encompassing genre tag really exasperates things? Who in the bloody hell decided to change that, anyway?

Hip Hop CULTURE doesn't advocate or glorify violence. Hip Hop MUSIC may, which is ridiculous because you can't use the term two describe two totally different things, blame one, and not have the other be equally as guilty.

It's just sad how the term's being misued, and for monetary gain, so it seems.

By the way did you see my edited post.

Studio Gangters talk shit.

Real Gangters kill people.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Everywhere and in partcularly London, obvoulsy because I live here.

I live in London too, but the fact remains that you're basing things purely on experience.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So that doesnt count for anything. Im just supposed to ignore it.

No, you're just not supposed to assume that because you don't know any different, that your experiences are all there is.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er if you say so..but it works fine for me.

No, you can't deny proven statistics. What part do you not get?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok so let me get this straight.......gun crime is growing amongst black youth in london most of them listen to hip hop...or garage as we call it in the Uk. The music glorfies the use of guns and there is no connection?

Garage is an entirely different genre of music, Alf. It's nothing like hip hop, so that proves my point further. I know most of London's well known "garage" acts personally or at least know OF them, and back in the day when garage was a sensation here, there was coincidentally a lot of people going around mugging other people. These people often had connections to, or were involved in, the UK garage culture. That doesn't mean the music is to blame, it means they're bad people.

The fact is, the MUSIC isn't doing ANYTHING. The culture that the people MAKING the music represent, might be a factor, but the music itself is not.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro...you dont know stats are used to create theory? Anyway I was just trying to draw an analogy you completely missed my point....i dont think I want to explain again.

You prove theory with fact also.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Again....

Ok so let me get this straight.......gun crime is growing amongst black youth in london most of them listen to hip hop...or garage as we call it in the Uk. The music glorfies the use of guns and there is no connection?

Between the culture? Perhaps. Between the music? No. The music is a catalyst to promote the culture, the message IN the music causes idiots to go and do stuff, but it's not the music's fault because there are people out there who listen to that same music and do nothing.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Why am I going to bother to get you a link so far you're wasting my time...I mean I can get you one link, but as far as I can see you're just beign argumentative.

No, you're trying to say the music is, in some way, directly responsible. It's not. The culture, maybe.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hell if gun crime is increasing amongst balck youth and hip hop is the most popular music...which glorifies guns....and you're telling me there is no connection, you are obvoulsy in denail.

A) You're confusing hip hop with garage.

B) I'm telling you the culture is connected, not the music.

-AC