So, what do you believe?

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Yet, all it takes is one eruption from the right (or wrong) vulcano, and the planet by God will slowly end (The people with it). A tsunami can wipe out entire cities, a hurricane far more than that.

So?

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
No matter what God or faith you have, we are like bugs to nature.

Oh, I see what you are getting at. lol

Super Marie 64, the forces of nature are not independent of the will of God. And they are certainly not worthy of worship in and of themselves. Humanity, the volcano, the wind, the lightning, meteors, etc. are all part of the creation that God designed and put into existence. Nothing happens in nature without the permission of God.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Muslim people believe that if humanity fall into darkness and chaos, that nature itself will turn against us?

By God's permission this will be. The forces of nature are only servants to the One who created them.

So, a single false step by nature and thousands die. We're puny.

The reason I have a hard time believing that, is that I can't imagine why God would want to kill millions every year through nature. Many innocent of any crime; children and animals. Some devoted followers of Islam, and all other kinds of people.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
So, a single false step by nature and thousands die. We're puny.

Nature isn't a sentient entity coming to smite us, Super Marie. It's more like the sword of God.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
The reason I have a hard time believing that, is that I can't imagine why God would want to kill millions every year through nature. Many innocent of any crime; children and animals. Some devoted followers of Islam, and all other kinds of people.

Everyone dies. Everyone.

Everyone will come to the end of his/her life cycle. Some early, some later, but it happens to all of us. Death is not evil. It's just 'death.' Evil is when one person deliberately disobeys God.

So, killing is not wrong?

'Death' is not the same thing as 'killing.'

Death by Nature is killing, as I've come to understand Islam believe Nature controlled by a sentinent force.

And how do you excuse war you wage in the name of Allah? That's killing, as is war bigotry.

Originally posted by MRasheed
'Death' is not the same thing as 'killing.'

But if nature is "the sword of Allah" as you claimed then God is just arbitrarily using his "sword" to kill people, they're not simply dying. Well that or using a tool to kill people makes it okay.

God is the One who determines the length of the human lifespan. He also determines when you will be born. God determines how long we stay here.

lol And God doesn't arbitrarily do anything; He is the Best of Planners of all those who plan.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Death by Nature is killing, as I've come to understand Islam believe Nature controlled by a sentinent force.

God is the sentient force controlling the forces of nature.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
And how do you excuse war you wage in the name of Allah? That's killing, as is war bigotry.

The Holy Qur'an 2:216
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

War is bad; it is a terrible thing. But it is more wrong to allow someone to oppress you, and God prescribes it to us when some other group of unreasonable people will not leave us in peace.

Originally posted by MRasheed
God is the One who determines the length of the human lifespan. He also determines when you will be born. God determines how long we stay here.

lol And God doesn't arbitrarily do anything; He is the Best of Planners of all those who plan.

So he kills you the moment you're born. He just puts a timer on your heart? If your time of death is an active, intellectual choice, it's killing. Unless it's your own choice, then it's suicide.

Originally posted by MRasheed
God is the sentient force controlling the forces of nature.

[b]The Holy Qur'an 2:216
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

War is bad; it is a terrible thing. But it is more wrong to allow someone to oppress you, and God prescribes it to us when some other group of unreasonable people will not leave us in peace. [/B]

If he is this sentinent force, what he does is killing.

So you're saying your religion has never been the agitator?

The religion itself explains under what circumstances war is prescribed. Rarely do people strictly adher to this, especially egotistic monarchs.

I believe.....when I fall in love...this time it will be forever.

Originally posted by MRasheed
The religion itself explains under what circumstances war is prescribed. Rarely do people strictly adher to this, especially egotistic monarchs.

Where did that come from? That's completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by MRasheed
The religion itself explains under what circumstances war is prescribed. Rarely do people strictly adher to this, especially egotistic monarchs.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Where did that come from? That's completely irrelevant.

I disagree. It's 100% relevant on the heels of your own "And how do you excuse war you wage in the name of Allah?" Just because I start a war "in the name of Allah" doesn't automatically mean the war I'm starting is lawful as dictated by the reasons Allah said we are actually allowed to go to war under. That's like saying "I hit you with this rock in the name of George Clooney!!" and expect Clooney to automatically be on board just because you proclaimed the act in his name.

The concept is on the same level of seriousness.

In other words, the religions says you are only allowed warfare for XYZ reasons, but jews, christians, muslims start wars for ABC reasons, and because they are jews, christians, muslims, outsiders automatically think they have the blessings of the religions they subscribe to, but this is rarely true. People operate on their own program, and very few, especially egotistic monarchs trying to expand their territories, follow the tenants of their faith that strictly. Just because I did it, it doesn't mean it was an Islamic act, even though I'm Muslim. I'm still a flawed human being. Islam influences me when I am at my best. My ego influences me when I'm at my worst.

Originally posted by MRasheed
[B]Without believing in God, this person is only doing these things to be seen by men and to be an ego-maniac. His deeds are worthless spiritually.

lol at your claim that people who dont believe in god lead worthless lives

Originally posted by 753
there is no possible way you could know why this person is doing anything. lol at your claim that people who dont believe in god lead worthless lives

I know that if they don't believe in God first then it doesn't matter why they are doing it. If in the end they are going to be flung head first into the fiery pit forever, then their earthly lives were indeed worthless no matter what they previously thought. An eternity of pain and regret will put the matter into proper perspective, I wager. What you previously thought to be a wonderful and full life, turned out to be as dust blowing away in the wind... worthless, for it profitted you nothing but the torments of hell.

Originally posted by 753
the fact that you cant understand altruism onto itself and not as an act to be seen by god, out of fear of hell or a desire for a reward in heaven says a lot about you, however. I say that to act in kindness towards others simply because god said so is empty and spiritually worhtless as it does not show a true concern for the well being of others but a concern with following orders, pleasing a deity or fearing hell.

The Word of God is often referred to as the "Good News" because when it came to people who believed in God and had a naturally altruistic heart and who simply loved helping others just as the type of person they were, they were told the Good News that they were already on the path and that God indeed saw them and all their works and would reward them for it. Now the type of believing person who is only doing good deeds to get to heaven... will still get to heaven. Despite his base motivations, his actions still kept him out of trouble and prevented him from sowing strife and descension in the land. But he will occupy a lower level of heaven than the first person described.

Originally posted by MRasheed
I know that if they don't believe in God first then it doesn't matter why they are doing it. If in the end they are going to be flung head first into the fiery pit forever, then their earthly lives were indeed worthless no matter what they previously thought. An eternity of pain and regret will put the matter into proper perspective, I wager. What you previously thought to be a wonderful and full life, turned out to be as dust blowing away in the wind... worthless, for it profitted you nothing but the torments of hell.

The Word of God is often referred to as the "Good News" because when it came to people who believed in God and had a naturally altruistic heart and who simply loved helping others just as the type of person they were, they were told the Good News that they were already on the path and that God indeed saw them and all their works and would reward them for it. Now the type of believing person who is only doing good deeds to get to heaven... will still get to heaven. Despite his base motivations, his actions still kept him out of trouble and prevented him from sowing strife and descension in the land. But he will occupy a lower level of heaven than the first person described. [/B]

For all others, like those who do believe in God but don't do any good deeds, people who don't believe in God but do good deeds, and people who neither believe nor do good deeds, the Word of God comes as a warning instead of a good news. The message instead is for them is to repent, believe in the One God who created them, do good in this life and avoid evil. Then they will receive their reward from the Lord and will have no need to fear, nor shall they grieve.

Is the brain washing compete now?

I hope so.