Originally posted by MRasheed
Atheists often reflect a great pride in modern societal achievements that they ascribe to the continuous evolving species. Their arrogance and egocentrism shows strongest within this belief whenever they discuss peoples, races or cultures they consider "less evolved." Instead of upholding the forces of 'cause and effect' acting within their favor as you implied, they instead give every impression that they are doing it themselves.Nope, it's personified with the above post I wrote. The believer understands that all they have comes from God, and would not dare to demonstate egocentism as they understand that pride is a sin.
Ahh I see. Now we dont all think like that: I personally cringe when I hear Dawkin's speak of "Brights" etc.. even though we have this info from extensive studies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
theres no room for being nasty about it.
However the "Im the center of the all the universe's creation" POV beats it, and attempts to take the cake (and the universe with it) egocentricity wise, I feel...
Originally posted by MRasheed
?What am I trying to find a loop hole for?
Originally posted by Robtard
Your interpretations of scripture.
How am I trying to find a loophole? To do what? Do you know what a loophole is? If I was trying to find a loophole in the scripture, I'd be trying to figure out how I could fornicate, adulterate, steal millions of dollars, and kill Robtard without going to hell for them.
Where was I looking for a loophole at?
The message of scripture is to believe in God, avoid evil, and do good. That's not my interpretation, that's the actual message. Jesus required this of the people as well. Remember when the rich young ruler asked the Christ what was the secret to getting into heaven? Jesus said for him to follow the Commandments (avoid evil). When the ruler said that he's been following the Commandments since he was a small boy, Jesus said that in that case he needed to give away all of his wealth (do good) and follow him (believe).
Originally posted by Robtard
You also went on to further illustrate by saying Jesus foretold of Muhammad.
Again that's not my interpretation. You must understand that after Jesus prophecized the coming of the Paraclete, all of christiandom spent the next 6oo years waiting for a prophet of God on earth. When Muhammad camed many of them converted without hesitation. It wasn't until later, after numerous Muslim versus Christian theological debates/arguments did they start saying that the Paraclete was the holy spirit of God and not a prophet despite the evidence.
That was them, not me.
Originally posted by MRasheed
How am I trying to find a loophole? To do what? Do you know what a loophole is? If I was trying to find a loophole in the scripture, I'd be trying to figure out how I could fornicate, adulterate, steal millions of dollars, and kill Robtard without going to hell for them.Where was I looking for a loophole at?
The message of scripture is to believe in God, avoid evil, and do good. That's not my interpretation, that's the actual message. Jesus required this of the people as well. Remember when the rich young ruler asked the Christ what was the secret to getting into heaven? Jesus said for him to follow the Commandments (avoid evil). When the ruler said that he's been following the Commandments since he was a small boy, Jesus said that in that case he needed to give away all of his wealth (do good) and follow him (believe).
Again that's not my interpretation. You must understand that after Jesus prophecized the coming of the Paraclete, all of christiandom spent the next 6oo years waiting for a prophet of God on earth. When Muhammad camed many of them converted without hesitation. It wasn't until later, after numerous Muslim versus Christian theological debates/arguments did they start saying that the Paraclete was the holy spirit of God and not a prophet despite the evidence.
That was them, not me.
TO BE CORRECT. Specifically when we were discussing the "death bed". Maybe it is you who needs to pay closer attention to the direct subject at hand.
Yeah, that is your interpretation, or to be more on the point, an interpretation of scripture as I wasn't directly implying that you and only you were the first person to think Jesus spoke of Mohammad. Many Christians are still waiting for another coming, see "interpretations." Hinduism has similarities, both Jesus and Mohammad are (said to be) in the Vedas and are incarnations (or facets) of Vishnu.
Originally posted by Robtard
TO BE CORRECT. Specifically when we were discussing the "death bed". Maybe it is you who needs to pay closer attention to the direct subject at hand.
Show me where I was looking for a loophole within the scripture.
Scripture says you cannot achieve paradise if your good deeds don't outweigh your bad deeds even if you do believe in God. The deathbed conversion is impossible per the religions themselves. Any christian who believes they have a stay out of hell no matter what card because they believe Jesus died for their sins is mistaken. Absolutely no Christian clergy or scholar would believe such a thing. "Faith without Works is dead."
Originally posted by Robtard
Many Christians are still waiting for another coming...
Both Christians and Muslims are looking for the second coming of the Christ Jesus. In this case, I will agree it is a matter of perhaps faulty interpretation since the Qur'an only says that the Christ will be "one of the signs" of the Last Day. Does that mean he will actually show up in the flesh? Who knows? "One of the signs" can mean a lot of stuff.
Originally posted by Robtard
Strawman. Considering we were discussing something you quoted yourself on.
I wasn't looking for a loophole at all; the comment didn't even make sense in context. Fine.
Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, they've got a long time to wait. How they packed a proper lunch.
Since Pisces is the age of Christianity, it might be at the beginning of a Piscesian precessional age sometime in the VERY far future.
And then again it might NOT.
All likelihood is that you're talking a no-show.
There are so many points where he could have turned up and proven everything (Not with one act) showing:
Evidence of being able to repeatedly and testably perform every miracle attributed to the son of god in all versions of the bible/quaran whatever, in front of millions of witnesses.
Evidence of God himself.
Evidence that he is the son of god and not just a magician.
Evidence that all happened in the bible as it was said to be.
Explanation for the numerous inconsistances between known reality and the accounts of the scriptures.
Explanation for the numerous acts of horror attributed to God or his will, and the billions of ignored prayers from people desperately in need of some intervention.
Explanation for that whole malicious sadistic sense of pranksterness like displaye din that episode with Abraham: "Go kill your son to prove your love to me, hahahaahahahaha only kidding" etc from a god whom otherwise seems to be malevolent at times, indifferent at others....
The answer to "why all that vampire/cannibal demanding of blood drinking and body eating..."
All of this.
But nope.
He rewards the faithful with constant enduring disappointment.
Even Mother Theresa gave up and wrote to the church confessing her fraudulent status as a Saint who doesn't believe in god, through lack of any evidence... in the face of a MASSIVE body of evidence of the suffering of "his" people.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And then again it might NOT. All likelihood is that you're talking a no-show.
It depends on what the scripture means. If God really is saying that the Christ will be here with us, then he will be here. No doubt.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
There are so many points where he could have turned up and proven everything (Not with one act) showing:Evidence of God himself.
It is a matter of faith over personages and concepts that are literally out of this world and are not measurable by the materialistic concept of 'proof.' The nonbeliever from the very beginning has cried out for proof because of his/her lack of understanding. Faith/belief is a major componant... perhaps THE major componant... of the Great Game, and continuous demanding of proof is one of the ways you lose. My advice? Cease and desist this talk immediately and turn your face towards the One who made you so you may prosper.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Evidence that he is the son of god and not just a magician.Evidence of being able to repeatedly and testably perform every miracle attributed to the son of god in all versions of the bible/quaran whatever, in front of millions of witnesses.
He wasn't the 'son of God' he was the messenger of the Lord come to show the children of Israel the way back onto the path of God. The miracles never worked on disbelievers at any time, they were actually performed to strengthen the belief of the faithful, but sometimes they caused even them confusion and doubt. By the time Jesus and Muhammad came (pbuh), God had ceased performing miracles willy-nilly just because someone asked for a sign. When some of the Hebrew prophets themselves would ask for one, God would instead tell them to fast for three days, or not speak a word for 10 days and spend time in meditation, "That will be your sign."
So FYI whenever disbelievers say such things it fails on deaf ears from the Lord (and probably an eye roll).
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Evidence that all happened in the bible as it was said to be.Explanation for the numerous inconsistances between known reality and the accounts of the scriptures.
The overall jist of the bible is true, but many of the details are less accurate because of the changes over time the guardians allowed to happen in the text. It's one of the reasons the Qur'an is here, to correct such things that the Jews and Christians were in error about.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Explanation for the numerous acts of horror attributed to God or his will, and the billions of ignored prayers from people desperately in need of some intervention.
The whole point of mankind living on earth is so that we can struggle and strive through life's hardships and trials and become better people on the other side. You win by believing in God and practicing patient perseverance through adversity as you avoid evil and do good. You lose by giving up and disbelieving. The primary point of prayer is to keep you focused on the spiritual goals you are trying to reach as you strive to win the Game.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Explanation for that whole malicious sadistic sense of pranksterness like displaye din that episode with Abraham: "Go kill your son to prove your love to me, hahahaahahahaha only kidding" etc from a god whom otherwise seems to be malevolent at times, indifferent at others....
The explanation is within the text, plain for all to see who have eyes and can read. Abraham, held to a higher standard because of the prophetic office he held, had his faith tested. Period.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The answer to "why all that vampire/cannibal demanding of blood drinking and body eating..."
The specific Christian doctrine involving the divinity of the Christ is not part of my belief system. I am Muslim. But that was one of the errors the Qur'an was revealed to address.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
He rewards the faithful with constant enduring disappointment.
Nonsense. That's what those say who don't believe.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Even Mother Theresa gave up and wrote to the church confessing her fraudulent status as a Saint who doesn't believe in god, through lack of any evidence... in the face of a MASSIVE body of evidence of the suffering of "his" people.
Mother Theresa was a human being, like all of us, who of course experienced low times of doubt. But she still gave God the benefit of the doubt that His Word was true, and she never gave up and remained in a state of obdience. Thus she will receive her reward in the next life, she will have no need to fear, nor shall she grieve. To the very best of her understanding, she spent her life striving to do what she believed the Lord required of her, and that is all He wants of all of us. She is very, very blessed to have died in that state. Woe be onto her if she had chosen to give in to the temptations of disbelief that tormented her! That was clearly the nature of her special test in this life.
Originally posted by Super Marie 64
[b]You call nature 'it' and it is far superior humans. [/B]
I reject this idea. Humans are superior to anything in the natural world because we have the potential to rise above our base, 'natural' state and become great forces of good in the world in God's name. We can do this despite going through all kinds of intense hardship and adversity, and will make up superior to even the angels.
Nature can only be how it found itself and nothing more. Humans can be better than that.
Originally posted by MRasheed
I reject this idea. Humans are superior to anything in the natural world because we have the potential to rise above our base, 'natural' state and become great forces of good in the world in God's name. We can do this despite going through all kinds of intense hardship and adversity, and will make up superior to even the angels.Nature can only be how it found itself and nothing more. Humans can be better than that.
Yet, all it takes is one eruption from the right (or wrong) vulcano, and the planet by God will slowly end (The people with it). A tsunami can wipe out entire cities, a hurricane far more than that.
No matter what God or faith you have, we are like bugs to nature. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Muslim people believe that if humanity fall into darkness and chaos, that nature itself will turn against us?