Furthermore, effectiveness in combat varies from character to character regardless of power; depending upon the talents of the character or how the character shaped himself/herself. As an example: Exar Kun WTFpwned Luke whereas Sidious didn't.
A lot of Dark Empire was Luke not being willing to face Sidious because he'd lose, and then finally winning with Leia's help rather than one-on-one.
The Jedi Academy trilogy started the same year that Dark Empire ended, and Exar Kun caught him by surprise.
Luke, during that time, was very strong, but not yet *quite* Mace/Yoda/Sids level IMO, and had some holes in his training, still piecing together Jedi knowledge, so it's not surprising that Exar Kun was able to get the drop on him.
Please explain, I seem to be missing a bit of your meaning.
From what I gather, here is my (unsure) response:
They can defy biology and become more powerful because of Dark Side rituals that did so, or extenuating circumstances that caused something to happen. All in all, it is entirely unnatural. But the thing is, with Anakin having the potential to be the most powerful Force User ever, and Luke being as powerful as Anakin, then if we set up a scenario where somebody got to the most powerful they could ever be, then Anakin and Luke would absolutely crush any opposition hands down.
Originally posted by Pwned
Please explain, I seem to be missing a bit of your meaning.From what I gather, here is my (unsure) response:
They can defy biology and become more powerful because of Dark Side rituals that did so, or extenuating circumstances that caused something to happen. All in all, it is entirely unnatural. But the thing is, with Anakin having the potential to be the most powerful Force User ever, and Luke being as powerful as Anakin, then if we set up a scenario where somebody got to the most powerful they could ever be, then Anakin and Luke would absolutely crush any opposition hands down.
They also used Dark Side rituals to do so. (Except Nihilus. Etentuating circumstances, and he fed off the Force) Which came at either, A: the cost of thousands of lives, or B: A perversion of the Force to the darkest extreme.
By my scenario, none of this matters though, as each character is as powerful as they will ever be.
Originally posted by Pwned
From what I gather, here is my (unsure) response:
They can defy biology and become more powerful because of Dark Side rituals that did so, or extenuating circumstances that caused something to happen. All in all, it is entirely unnatural. But the thing is, with Anakin having the potential to be the most powerful Force User ever, and Luke being as powerful as Anakin, then if we set up a scenario where somebody got to the most powerful they could ever be, then Anakin and Luke would absolutely crush any opposition hands down.
No, you underestimate the power of the Dark Side. Some of these Sith, namely Vitiate and Nihilus, just completely surpassed their own Force Potential by stupendous levels. Think of the Witches of the Dathomir, the Elder Nightermothers were so powerful they could ressurect, these ancient Sith were Evil Wizards, wielding more magic than Force. Nihilus evolved, no, transformed into something that rivaled another Sith creation, the Dark Staff, which could blow up planets and break the fabric of space time...Nihilus was close right after consuming one of the worlds he consumed, but not quite there yet.
Originally posted by Pwned
They also used Dark Side rituals to do so. (Except Nihilus. Etentuating circumstances, and he fed off the Force) Which came at either, A: the cost of thousands of lives, or B: A perversion of the Force to the darkest extreme.
I don't understand that how people put these 3 individuals; Sidious; Vitiate; and Nihilus in the same boat as others. These guys transcended natural limitations.
Originally posted by Pwned
By my scenario, none of this matters though, as each character is as powerful as they will ever be.
I am not sure about the potential limitations of Nihilus since his power was also his weakness but Sidious and Vitiate were definitely growing in power through unnatural means; Vitiate, in particular, could have become an omnipotent Godlike being, if he hadn't been stopped. Nothing can get better then this.
Comparing these 3 individuals with Luke is unfair and stupid because they become much different then him. Luke can never rival these 3 in power unless he follows the same path.
Except how he is already the most powerful mortal force user to ever live, right? And how all 3 of those guys were also mortal?
Sure, they found a way to circumvent death. Doesn't make them immortal, nor does it make them as badass as you seem to wish.
Anakin was stated to be the most powerful to ever live.... And given that he is more powerful than the Ones, that's easily believable. Luke, I believe, was stated to be his equal. At the very least, he is more than Sidious.
All three of your examples were punked. Sidious by a 3/4 trained Luke, Vitiate by a random Knight, and Nihilus by the Exile. Who was later completely and totally beaten.
All in all, I don't see why you wish to whank (pronounced wuh-hank) these guys so much.
Put Anakin or Luke at the most powerful they can achieve, and they will stomp everybody.
Originally posted by Pwned
Except how he is already the most powerful mortal force user to ever live, right?
Originally posted by Pwned
And how all 3 of those guys were also mortal?
Originally posted by Pwned
Sure, they found a way to circumvent death. Doesn't make them immortal, nor does it make them as badass as you seem to wish.
Originally posted by Pwned
Anakin was stated to be the most powerful to ever live....
Anakin had highest midi-chlorian count in "recorded" history. Even if we are to believe that he possessed the highest mid-chlorian count in all of the history, this still doesn't guarantees that he would rival or surpass Nihilus, Sidious and Vitiate with his sheer biological potential. The dark side is a pathway which permits its practitioner to transcend biological limitations.
Originally posted by Pwned
And given that he is more powerful than the Ones, that's easily believable. Luke, I believe, was stated to be his equal. At the very least, he is more than Sidious.
Originally posted by Pwned
All three of your examples were punked. Sidious by a 3/4 trained Luke, Vitiate by a random Knight, and Nihilus by the Exile. Who was later completely and totally beaten.
I have offered an explanation:
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin and Luke haven't demonstrated the capability to destroy entire worlds. They are good in combat though; Luke much more so.Sidious, Vitiate and Nihilus possessed such command of the dark side that these guys could destroy entire worlds with adequate preparation. Vitiate, in particular, reached a point after a span of around 1300 years of delving in to Sith Lore that he was in the position to make necessary arrangements with which he could destroy entire Galaxy and transform himself in to an omnipotent being. This is insane.
Some members have a point here; power can be defined in many ways.
In addition, their are so many powerful characters in the mythos now that it is hard to rank them. Most of the lists in this thread are absurd by the way, as per latest canonical revelations.
Furthermore, effectiveness in combat varies from character to character regardless of power; depending upon the talents of the character or how the character shaped himself/herself. As an example: Exar Kun WTFpwned Luke whereas Sidious didn't.
Also, sometimes the Force itself influences events if we are to believe that the Force have its own will. As an example: Vitiate have singlehandedly purged entire Dark Councils and subdued entire strike teams but lost to a lone Jedi Knight once. I believe that the Force favours Luke. I don't think that Luke is more powerful then lets say Sidious, Vitiate and Nihilus but he is a very potent fighter and somehow manages to get through all kinds of challenges.
I don't like repeating myself over and over again. Focus on the presented argument and then proceed accordingly.
Also, Anakin and Luke have also gotten "punked" as you put.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
All in all, I don't see why you wish to whank (pronounced wuh-hank) these guys so much.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Put Anakin or Luke at the most powerful they can achieve, and they will stomp everybody.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It remains to be seen where The Ones stand in terms of power. If Abeloth is a dozen times stronger then Luke then your assertion doesn't pans out.
It's confirmed by the announcer that they are "more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before". So they are certainly more powerful than Vitiate or Nihilus.
Originally posted by ares834
It's confirmed by the announcer that they are "more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before". So they are certainly more powerful than Vitiate or Nihilus.
The website also confirms that the Son's powers are "beyond the domain of the Sith" and Anakin's potential is described by that same source as having the potential to become the most powerful Force user ever.
Anakin > The Anchorites > Barriss > everyone else.