Here's the excerpt on Warb Null just to re-enforce my point.
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=4&page=015
Ommin expects Ulic to give Warb Null and I quote" a fine beating."
Now I ask, what kind of bad ass enforcer is that?
And a few blows later.....
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=4&page=016
and I quote "Droma ends the brief career of Warb Null."
Even Bandon wasn't this embarassing.
He was nothing special, even if you count the cool looking medieval armor.
you are capable of destroying the most powerful Mandalorian in a fight, none of them should try to fight you after that. You have already taken out their best - what reason would there to continue fighting.
So the f*ck what. How does that have ANY relevance on the discussion? Sure Ulic can beat one Mandalorian (even Mandalore) but can he do the same thing on a field of battle where there are THOUSANDS of Mandalorians all greatly skilled. And someone doesn't get the Mando's they'd think if he (the Mandalore) got killed then he was weak. Just as they will keep coming till the position is completely removed, hence why Revan took the helmet and hid it, to prevent that what Canderous says would have happened:
"Had the helmet been found a new Mandalore would have been chosen right then and there."
In fact, Mandalore at first demanded a duel to the death with the prize being the future of the seven worlds in the Teta System. Ulic could have accepted that, then he could have walked in, killed Mandalore and the Mandalorians would have been gone.
Even though anther one would just Not pick up the helmet and continue it 🙄
I wonder why a similar offer wasn't made to Revan or why he didn't try to challenge Mandalore in a duel like that.
Other then the fact that we don't know what happened in the actual confrontation other then it was a hand to hand combat fight. Revan didn't want the Mandalorians to bow to him, he wanted them dead. And thats what he did since they were nearly all wiped out at Malachor V.
And aside of that Aleema does tell Ulic that Mandalore fears him just before Ulic contacts the Mandalorian.
Uh huh, and Aleema would know this how? And Ulic didn't sense this why? Could be that she was just running her mouth to increase Ulics confidence? Yeah, it seems like it.
Yeah, dipshit. Let's ignore how Ulic sacrificed all his advantages to give Mandalore a fair fight. He could have force choked him to death easily as Mandalore didn't have defense against that. He could have cut him down easily with his lightsaber since no Mandalorian weapon would have been a match for that in melee combat. Instead he decided not to use offensive force powers (despite the fact that he can force choke people at least) and he threw away his lightsaber.
No shit, Padawan Anakin Skywlaker could beat Mandalore by simple force choking him. The POINT was on equal fotting ie: No force powers or lightsabers, Mandalore is likely the better, as he proved in the duel.
And yes...Mandalore sends Ulic flying...when Ulic was unarmed. Ulic did totally waste Mandalore's flying mount before and when he comes back with a weapon seconds later he defeats Mandalore with a single hit. Woohoo...Two attacks and Mandalore is down.
And? Mandalore fell of a cliff. Woohoo...he does the same thing to Ulic, busts his helmet and sends him flying. They were quite equals, with Mandalore having the edge due to his experience.
And it says that Mandalore's skill in battle might be greater. Yet still Ulic did totally waste him as long as he had a weapon in hand.
Cause of the terrain, idiot, by that logic Obi Wan > Anakin, simply because he had the terrain advantage.
Lmao.
How can you still compare some few battles against people who can't use the force to the terror unleashed by the Dark Side during the Great Sith War ?
The Mandalorians during the Mandalorian wars did glass a lot of planets yes. The very same is said about Ulic and his Mandalorian forces during the GSW. I don't see much difference there.
What don't you get about this? Is it such a difficult concept to understand? Show me ONE battle that was so vicious that it could and did break the Jedi mentally in the GSW. That is the damn point, I don't give a shit about how much "terror" was unleashed by Kun. And a few battles? The Mando wars lasted two years longer then the "real" GSW.
What I do see is:
a) That serveral of Kun's actions (organized slaying of the Jedi Masters called a "Jedi pogrom"😉 were descriped as "striking the hearts" of the Jedi. The omniscient narrator even goes so far that he says that "the light side of the force is struck down by evil Sith Magic".
b) That Kun came up with superweapons like the Dark Reaper and Sadow's ancient ship who claimed the lives of millions or even billions of people.
c) That Kun as well as people like Amanoa or Ommin did very well utilize the Dark Side to "break" Jedi in combat or let's say they either did draw them to the Dark Side or killed them with that.
Super, I don't give a shit, as thats not what I'm talking about.
And actually, for all we know, there we're just two notable confrontations between Revan's Jedi forces and the Mandalorians. That would be the second Battle of Dxun (which lasted months and claimed many lives) and the devastation of Malachor V. That's it.
Then you'd be an idiot.
Battle of Dagary Minor
Battle of Eres III
Battle of Duro
Second Battle of Taris
Battle of Jaga's Cluster
Second Battle of Onderon
Second Battle of Dxun
Second Battle of Althir
Battle of Malachor V
And this is all we know about so far, in the wars 3 year time of Jedi involvement.
No. You missed the point again. First "lightside is canon" means that the Exile would have chosen "lightside" every time, hence killing one of the Jedi Masters isn't an option.
Um whose ass did you pull that from? Simply because the lightside ending is canon doesn't mean that that dictates what the player choices throughout the game, you see unlike KOTOR where if you either join or don't join Bastila that dictates what ending you get, however in KOTOR 2 no such event happens.
And usually the lightside options involve unnecessary kindness, which Kreia berates and is attempting to teach the Exile not to do. Unless you can provide a quote from LFL or TastyTasty that says "LS option = all lightside choices in game." you don't have an damn point.
It has never happened.
You can't prove that. As you can kill people like Zez without it having ANY planetary affect what so ever. Stop making shit up.
But since she did never kill a Jedi Master (canonically) you simply can't use this as an argument.
Except I can, because there is no canon saying that she DIDN'T kill one of them.
a) Arca was trained on Ossus as you might have noticed so he had access to the knowledge there.
Great so was Shaela Nuur is she the god of force knowledge too?
b) Arca trained Ulic, Cay and Tott for years.
You can't prove how long Ulic spent on Arkania.
Hell...I didn't see the Exile blocking blasterfire without a lightsaber. Especially NOT fire from spaceships. As Arca's students (as it seems) all could do. Hmm...
Other then I can make the Exile learn the ability to do that, really now Araca's students can block blaster fire..."OMGBBQ tey are teh most POWAFUL!!!!" big whoop. And the strongest ability he taught the was blocking blaster fire 🙄
Urm. You did notice that Ulic's mother was a Jedi Master and that Ulic did constantly search for competition in every possible field and defeated anyone who opposed him before he started his Jedi Training ? And he wasn't descriped as "mediocre" or "average" but more as "local hero of the planet Alderaan".
And? We've been through this already.
The Exile can only use Jedi power who Ulic also knows.
Yet Ulic can come up with Dark Side attacks the Exile doesn't know and (in case of the amulet) is most likely not even able to counter.
Ah what the f*ck is Ulic going to do? And name a power aside from the Amulet blast that the Exile hasn't seen, Considering she's taken force attacks from Atris who's own personal collection of Sith knowledge eclipses everything Ulic EVER had. From Kreia, from Nihlius, and from Sion.
That means, individually, none of them was but only together they were ? Laughable.
No whats laughable is you assuming that it was all Ulic.
You have two individually strong dark side adepts and then they stand together rippling with Dark Side energy, really its not impressive since he has Exar Kun standing right next to him. And the narration mentions that it was "their" power not "Ulics"
Not to mention that the narrator manages the "astonishing transformation" of Ulic in that scene specifically.
So wait...let me get this straight, he gets a tattoo and now all of a sudden he turns in to a force god? Get serious, how about maybe its the fact that Ulics PERSONALITY took a "astonishing transformation" as he goes from, pissed off not so confident in his choices dark side adept this can be seen as he's moaning to Aleema:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=147
To hey lets go shit on the galaxy!
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=152
This is really hilarious. Because a force prodigy (Nomi) and the Dark Lord of the Sith himself (Kun) did manage to resist her attacks (and Nomi did have some problems doing that), Aleema must be weak ? Yay. You did notice how she fooled pretty much any other Jedi with the first illusions she created (space grazers) when the Republic tried to attack the Krath ? That's like saying because Yoda is capable of blocking the force lightning of Dooku and Sidious they both must be weaklings. Pfft...
She fooled Jedi with illusions...OMG she's soooo strong, really you love to exaggerate lame ass feats.
And it was incomplete knowledge, yes. Compareable to what Kun had which was just all knowledge of the Ancient Sith. And that "scraps of paper" actually were a complete book filled with Sith knowledge.
A book which she stole from Coruscant which doesn't even touch the surface of the knowledge Kreia has. Sorry, Naga Sadows knowledge =/= All knowledge of the Ancient Sith
And who lost the battle despite of vastly superior force powers?
And a sentence later it says..."Only some unexpected maneuver could save Kas'im now.
Ups. Who is the "ass clown" now, idiot ?
Ups! Your still an ass clown.
Which doesn't even have bearing on this debate because you can in no way proof that the Exile's raw force power is superior to that of Ulic.
Other then as said it takes 3 Jedi Masters, including Vrook who happened to be "one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the galaxy."
She's absorbed the energy of hundreds of beings
These said Masters make note of her power
She's able to read the thoughts of people en-mass on her first try:
"You are strong indeed what you heard were surface thoughts, but it is some thing MASTERS have trained for many years and never learned." - Kreia
She's able to mimic perfectly anything thrown at her:
Vrook: Are you arrogant enough to think you can divide your attention fighting me?
Exile: One can learn much by simply observing their foe
Vrook: You think you can learn my technique just by watching me? It takes a Jedi Master many years to even perfect it."
Exile begins to shit on him
Vrook: Its not possible! You...you must be stopped!
She is FAR more powerful in the force then Ulic.
Oh wait. That earns you the ass clown award for the most retarded poster I've ever seen.
Then I mus humbly decline because that award belongs solely to you.
Yes. Your beloved Kreia does actually state that they were becoming weaker and weaker.
From the point after Malachor she was speaking of the same thing Hk does the blow that they will never really recover from, Malachor V and the Mass Shadow Generator nice reading comprehension their, bucko.
The Mandalorians did obviously lose troops during the GSW and they followed a less powerful leader.
Great to see you can pay attention to the game, the Mandalorians under Mandalore The Ultimate began recruiting aliens and doctoring their conquered species into their cultures such as slaves like Mira once was who uses her Mandalorian training to become one of the most skilled and feared bounty hunters in the galaxy.
And woohoo...Mandalore send Ulic flying with that single hit. And that hit was only landed because Ulic did throw his weapon away.
So wait, because Ulic is an arrogant rtard thats to be taken against Mandalore?
Traya "quaked in fear" ? Yeah.
You answered it yourself.
That's why she's confronting him at the very beginning of the game and why he always taunts him for not having learned anything. And of course...
And that changes the fact that she shows viable fear during the cutscene on Malachor? No. Rather irrelevant.
DA DARK POWAAAA OF MALAACHOOOR ! Is this compareable to the Dark Power of Iziz summoned by Amanoa ? The Darkness that was real darkness meaning the lights went out once it was summoned ? That Darkness that clouded the minds of thousands of warriors and left them with feelings of "fear and despair" ? The Darkness which was called the "ultimate weapon" ? The Darkness that rendered Jedi unable to even think properly ?
This is what happens to dipshits who can't dicern what is and what isn't hyperbole. The ultimate weapon? Hyperbole, I could have sworn the "Ultiamte Weapon" was, The Star Forge, The Dark Reaper, The Death Star, The Galaxy Gun, The Sun Crusher, Random Super weapon #56.
And OMGZ teh lights went out! You know its powerful then!
And yes, Malachor > Izizs, because other then Malachor is a PLANET, and Iziz is a CITY, Malachors darkness, damn near broke Revan, broke Traya, corrupted hundreds of Jedi and turned them just by them tasting the DS energy being summoned up by Revan at Malachor V it also drove them into a frenzy. This same darkness that literally WAS a planet full of dark side objects and teachings. This same darkness that just by WALKING on it (before it was dispelled by Kreia) could break a Jedi. The lights going out on Iziz don't compare.
He runs onto the battle fields, proceeds with owning the sorry asses of Cay and Ulic and next time we see him he can only watch Ulic slaughtering a nice amount of Ommin's soldiers before finally cutting Warb's head off.
Warb sucks, buddy, as Allankles pointed out and I go into below.
And yes. Ulic did "just" overcome the Dark Side energies of Ommin who totally kicked Arca's ass and clouded the minds of all person on the battlefield to an extend that they were barely able to fight. This while torturing Arca with Dark Side energies. Ommin was owning Jedi Knights and Master with mere gestures. Ulic did overcome him almost too easily. And this is Ulic more than a year before reaching his "best shape".
And that compares to having to have three Jedi Masters needed to even touch you. To beating people like Atris who has over a dozen Sith holocrons at her disposal?
Oh. You genious. Did he also have the amulet with him when confronting Ulic ? Yes. Does Ulic possess an exact copy of said amulet obviously capable of doing the same ? Yes. Go figure...
And yet he doesn't have the power to replicate it in anyway what so ever when we see he perform with the Amulet. Go figure...
It's quite obvious that Ulic was a prodigy of his era. Given that he was unmatched, except by Kun.
Aside of that: Yes he killed Warb Null. The same guy that tossed Oss and Cay around with apparent ease. The guy that was possessed by an Ancient Sith.
Oh yes lets all pher teh mightey War Null!!!11! The same guy who's master thought would get his ass beat by Ulic, which Freedon Naad agrees with, the same guy who's "brief career" was ended with one slash. Oh and OTHER then Ulic was using the Dark Side to do this:
"Victorious, Ulic feels no jubilation, only a dark vertigo."
"My head, I feel like I'm falling...from a great height."
But I forgot beating CAY QEL DROMA and OSS WILLIUM is a mark of power 🙄 He blows, get over it.
one of the same Ancient Sith that would make people like the Exile and Kreia herself look like "children playing with toys" because of their "prowess in battle". And Ulic did take one of them down. Again: Go figure...
Your a damn retard.
Other then you BLATANTLY misquoting Kreia, she was speaking in respect to their LIGHTSABER skill, not their "prowess in battle" where the hell did you get that shit from? And then you'd have to prove that Warb's sorry ass was possed by someone who had the skill of Tulak Hord and he was just some random Ancient Sith who was nothing special. As GAoTS shows: Not every Sith is an "uber badass". Try Again.
Oh yes. We've seen so many people in the SW universe coming up with completely unique weapons (oh no. That was just Kun)
and designing completely new fighting styles (oh wait. That would be limited to Mace and Kun).
And the Echani...Tera Kasi anyone...The first to create each of the first 6 forms...the other magnitude of fighting styles in the Star Wars galaxy...
Obviously the guy has no idea about swordfighting.
The limit of "skill" we see Kun perform with the Double Bladed Saber is hammering down on a stick like a madman. And this is coming from a guy who he says in DLOTS that he is almost done with his lightsaber training, meaning he has no real combat experience and his duels are limited to Sylvar, Crado and Ulic. I ask AGAIN how does that make Exar Kun the epitome of lightsaber dueling? Now, before you go "LAWLZ he had Naga Sadow knowldege!!" Other then Naga Sadow didn't use a lightsaber and as we've seen from GAoTS sucked without his trinkets (the most we see him do without them is lob a non lethal brick)
The only logical answer would be his force connection, a fact which you yourself has denied having any thing to do with a duel.
Yay !
Calm your raging boner for a debate about Star Wars.
As you might have noticed said "Padawans" were infused with power / knowledge of Ancient Sith as Kun says directly before sending them off.
So...that some how makes them a match for a Jedi Master? So with a little of Naga's knowledge, you can go from not so special (and dumb Exar's great charisma and negotiating skills seemed to be largely on par with that of a sexual predator with the "hey I got something for you...come back to my place and you can touch it" ) padawan to uber powerful Jedi Master slaying Sith neophyte? BULL SHIT.
And why weren't these same Sith in turn who fled Yavin for Korriban and set up the academy able to not only fail to be any significant threat to the Jedi (the point to which they could willingly infiltrate the Academy, right after the GSW) or even Revan for that matter who simple walked in and took the bad boy over?
Almost done.
Going by the single fact alone that Kun was capable of coming up with a completely unique weapon and a corresponding style in the matter of months I'd say he must at least be on par with Mace Windu in sheer lightsaber combat.
And I'd say you'd be a retard, but thats just me. Other then his "style" was limited to thrusting up and down like a idiot till your opponent quits, and he didn't even finish his damn lightsaber training under VODO, that hardly puts him on the level of someone who mastered every form and in turn created a style that negates any advantage the Dark Side gives to a force user, but again thats just me. and creating the thing has no bearing on actual battle skill.
And Ulic must still come rather close to that as they were descriped as equal.
Um no, they weren't. Ulic was his equal in LIGHTSABER combat, in the force, no. As he obviously can't make the amulet perform to the same level Kun can and Kun after the point of the duel far surpasses him in the force.
So I personally view Ulic as a mixture of Dooku (blade work) and Anakin (brutality). That would be leagues above the Exile, actually.
Personally I'd don't give a f*ck, Anakin and Mace Windu respectively would SLAUGHTER Ulic and Exar Kun in a lightsaber duel. And Ulic and Kun are NOWHERE near their level, in sheer skill.
What does it take to become a master swordsman or even master one single form of lightsaber combat ? People are actually training that art over decades. If you take somebody like Ulic or just a single style, you would notice that one style alone includes dozens or hundrets of different movements, on top of that improvisation. Really...how should the Exile "mimic" that all before Ulic cuts her into pieces ? This is no training session.
Well lets she she's already a skilled duelist to begin with to the point where she could hack off Kreia's hand (And no it wasn't her off hand, EVERYONE in KOTOR is right handed as all their dominate combat stats are given to the right and anything put in the left is lesser thus making it the off hand, to which certain weapons such as short sabers are given stat advantages for being placed in the off had: the left. Her left gets hacked off.) and she has HIGHLY advanced precognitive abilities and due to her not knowing she's doing it as Brianna says it makes her "very dangerous".
With that being said she could easily hold Ulic off, then when she's seen enough of his attacks, turn his shit right back on him in face, while he proceeds to take in the "WTF" moment, he gets diced.
Oh my...
The point is that no matter how much force sensitivity or precognition you have, you do have to learn how to handle a blade properly unless you want to declare that Jedi training in general is useless and so are practice sessions. Because everyone and their mothers can simply "learn a style by viewing" in the matter of seconds. This is especially a senseless argument if you consider that the Exile would only know what Ulic shows her and she has to know it before Ulic does so to avoid getting tooled. Not possible.
Everyone in their mother isn't the Exile, an anomaly, who do to her nature can mimic things simply by viewing them, she's the only one in the star wars universe who can do do this. Not possible? Vrook pissing his pants proves you wrong, her being able to master digging into peoples heads in a matter of minutes something Kreia says it takes Jedi Masters YEARS to learn and some can't even do it, or other then Kreia's constant notes of how powerful the Exile either is or is becoming, and the Jedi Masters even acknowledging her power. Her nature makes her a prodigy.
Bullshit. See above.
Calling bullshit on facts is bullshit.
As I said. That has no impact on the debate unless you proof that the Exile is vastly superior to Ulic in terms of force power which, given the Sith amulet and Ulic's prodigious talents again, is speculative if not completely wrong.
Which I've done time and time again I'll even list it out for you:
She beat Traya who is very powerful in the force, to the point where she can force wave three VERY powerful Jedi Masters at once then again overcome Vrook also.
She beat Atris who had the aid of DOZENS of Sith Holocrons
She pushed back Sion being aided by the dark taint of Malachor
She was noted by Kreia and The Jedi Masters as very powerful in the force
She was able to dig into peoples heads simply by being told how to do it, even though Kreia says it takes Masters years to learn and even still some fail
She can mimic anything displayed to her perfectly
She has highly advanced precognitive abilities
She gained power from hundreds of beings throught the galaxy
It takes three Jedi Masters to even hold her in the Wall of light
She can beat any one of the Jedi Masters (save Kavar) with little re training in the force and not having absorbed any of the other masters (by simply doing that planet after leaving Telos) even Vrook who was noted as being "one of the most powerful Jedi masters in the galaxy" and who had served on the Dantooine Jedi council since the GSW and was on the very first Coruscant high council simultaneously. Vrook also IMMEDIATELY recovered from Kreia's attack to get hit and rise up again.
And here comes the last resort of the loser. Changing the battle. You have not defined any time frame for the characters, thus meaning that they are in their top shape. Don't ridicule yourself.
I didn't change shit, and their are no "default" rules, the rules are defined and can be changed at anytime by me, the topic creator, now while I will allow both to be at their prime the POINT was YOU don't decide it, I do.
Aside of the fact that said comics were drawn by different artists which would actually explain that incident completely:
Uh, no. Other then thats an out of universe explanation, they look nothing alike and
Kun had advice from Nadd how to use the amulet.
Oh yes advice to the limit of:
"Good did I not say the Dark Side is all."
That tells him EVERYTHING about the amulet.
And the first blast Kun did shoot. Erm...doesn't look much greater than that what Ulic produced
Uh ya it does, are you blind?
otherwise it should have obliterated the beast instantly as he was shooting right into the beast's mouth.
He's clearly angled sideways, and he's clearly not shooting into the beats mouth for what ever reason as the beam doesn't even make contact with the beast. Aside from that its rather irrelevant since that lowly beam alone is more powerful then the uncontrolled energy that Ulic unleashed.
So Kun's amulet blasts did grow stronger in the matter of mere seconds
And? For this to be the same case with Ulic, he'd have to be able to CONTROL the amulet to the level that Kun could, and as he was saying he could BARLEY do it:
"But Exar Kun is perplexed. He knows he was barley able to control the power of the amulet..."
and he was almost killed by performing this feat:
"Indeed, it almost killed him."
To assume that Ulic has not mastered the amulet to a compareable extend after six months is pretty stupid.
Compare this to Ulic who couldn't even control the first one, or make it do any substantial damage and Exar is more powerful in the force then he is, and he almost died doing it, Ulic would die attempting what Kun did to the beast. Hence why the limit that should be used in debate is what we first see him doing.
Done.
Haha. This is getting better and better. So Nomi had even prepared to counter Aleema's attack but still Aleema is weak. Uh-hu. Smartass.
Pretty much. Nomi was able to beat her back before, with her battle meditation. Aleema sucks, the extent of her power is a Sith spell book, which almost every other heavy hitter Jedi/Sith's power/knowledge far eclipses.
Wow. WTF ? I must have missed Nomi sitting on her ass, her eyes closed and totally focused to change the outcome of a freaking battle when using her Battle Meditation - which happens to be the case with Bastilla. Hell...Arca Jeth was using this power while navigating his ship. Urm. The Exile even RUNS AROUND while using Battle Meditation and destroys people. Somehow Bastilla seems to be the only person who is vunerable in that situation. While it makes everyone else stronger.
Think about what your saying, how in the hell does trying to affect other force users with the force somehow make YOU more powerful? Think about it.
Obviously Nomi's battle meditation did STRENGTHEN her defence as she used it to DEFEND herself against Aleema's deadly attack just seconds before. Yet she was not capable of stopping the amulet blast. Again: Go figure...
Use your goddamn head. She says she prepared ahead of time for Aleamas attack, she got a 1 second warning from Cay to attempt to block the Amulet Ulic pulls out from his ass.
BTW please stop saying "Go figure" you take somewhat witty and sarcastic phrases and use them so much that they become very lame, this goes for almost everyone one of your openers (Yay!, Oh My, This is getting better and better! Ups!) and your closers (Go figure, Uh-hu) to even your insults.
O
ne second is enough for Ulic to cut the Exile into small pieces. Seen when the slaughters the soldiers in front of Warb Null before said Dark Sider is even capable of turning around.
...why do I waste my time, I rarely call people this because it usually doesn't fit, but you are a damn fanboy, Ulic can now beat the Exile in ONE SECOND...get the f*ck out of here fanboy, and take Ulics dick out your mouth while your at it.
LMFAO. Are you freaking blind.
No. Ulic's power isn't increasing after the duel with Kun. Hence the narrator notices an "astonishing transformation" which happened to Ulic in terms of power.
Addressed in the first post, use some reading comprehension.
And where should he haved used the amulet ? In the duel with Mandalore ? Considering he even threw his lightsaber away because he considered it to be "unfair" using the amulet was not an option. And when confronting the Jedi ? Notice how he was almost instantly hit by the Wall of Light coming from Nomi and Vodo. I guess it's hard to use some force based amulet when you have no connection to the force any longer...
The point: He doesn't use it, he NEVER displays the control of Exar Kun, He NEVER displays the force talent of Exar Kun, therefore his amulet will not be on the level of Exar Kun, moreover even if it was he'd die in the process of trying to kill his foe.
And as you always forget she didn't use the force or a lightsaber for five years of this "decade" not to mention he just "rediscovered" her connection to the force some weeks (months) at best before the end of KotoR 2 and had to relearn everything from the start on (basically).
So we aren't talking about a power increase over years but a power increase from "non force user" to "Jedi" over the courtesy of some weaks / months.
And thats relevant how? As she attains a prodigal level of learning and ability upon her retain to the force.
And Ulic did actually perform most of his feats before he even duelled Kun when after the duel his increase of power was "astonishing".
Been dealt with.
Haha. If you don't want to use logical reasoning: okay. So I don't give the Exile any power that hasn't been demonstrated in cut scenes. Guess we can end the debate then since that would amount to almost ZERO force power demonstrated.
Not really, since EVERY force user has basic applications of the force ie: Telekinesis, and the extent to which is limited to the users connection. And what the f*ck are you talking about? I've purposely limited this discussion to force abilities the Exile logically has (TK) or has displayed in cutscenes (Highly Advanced telepathy, Highly Precognitive abilities, Beast Control, Force Breath, Her mimic ability, He bonding ability) and with that I use quotes about her power and logical deduction.
Yay. They were using physical strength + force power.
Oh my that makes all the difference 🙄 They were using the force to augment their physical power to hold Ulic down, thats what you should say. And that doesn't change the fact that Qrrl completely overpowered an enraged Ulic with one hand.
Qrrrl Toq doesn't exactly appear to be a weakling
And he NEVER appears to be strong.
and Cay does have a artificial arm in case you didn't notice that.
Of what undetermined power? As droids in the TOTJ era quite frankly sucked. And looked shoddy and weak.
And the extend of their force powers is still unknown.
And by what we've seen their nothing special, Cay himself got owned by the scrub Warb. They were jokers.
And they didn't manage to hold Ulic (who was also wounded in that situation if you didn't notice the bandages) down exactly.
Yeah they did, and what does his ribs have to do with anything? He's a force user, they can block out pain especially in a fit of rage as he was in.
They hardly managed to force him down on his knees and hold him for how long ? 5 seconds ?
They held him till Nomi said let go.
Dumb argument. Already dealt with. And you really want to put the KotoR 2 Jedi Master on one level with one 600 year old Jedi Master and an prodigious force user that, some years after starting her training, had already advanced to the de-facto-leader of the Jedi Order.
Maybe if you didn't crush your own arguments you'd have a point:
Notice how he was almost instantly hit by the Wall of Light coming from Nomi and Vodo. I guess it's hard to use some force based amulet when you have no connection to the force any longer...
And ANY of the KOTOR masters > Vodo.
Yeah. When Ulic was sitting on the ground crying because he had just slaughtered his own brother. He didn't even want to stop Nomi
And?
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So the f*ck what. How does that have ANY relevance on the discussion? Sure Ulic can beat one Mandalorian (even Mandalore) but can he do the same thing on a field of battle where there are THOUSANDS of Mandalorians all greatly skilled. And someone doesn't get the Mando's they'd think if he (the Mandalore) got killed then he was weak. Just as they will keep coming till the position is completely removed, hence why Revan took the helmet and hid it, to prevent that what Canderous says would have happened:"Had the helmet been found a new Mandalore would have been chosen right then and there."
It's rather amusing with how much persistance you manage to ignore facts. Ulic didn't just beat Mandalore. He did that without active use of force powers and without using his lightsaber. So your question should actually be: Can he repeat that on the battle field with his force powers and his lightsaber, while commanding thousands of other soldiers on his side. That would be equal to what the Exile did. And actually the question would be too stupid but still the answer would be „yes“.
Other then the fact that we don't know what happened in the actual confrontation other then it was a hand to hand combat fight. Revan didn't want the Mandalorians to bow to him, he wanted them dead. And thats what he did since they were nearly all wiped out at Malachor V.
What we know is that the confrontation was descriped as being „epic“. Now Revan had his force powers and his lightsaber and obviously used them. Ulic did own a more powerful Mandalore with two strikes while not having that advantages. Can you draw the conclusion yourself ?
Uh huh, and Aleema would know this how? And Ulic didn't sense this why? Could be that she was just running her mouth to increase Ulics confidence? Yeah, it seems like it.
Oh. You mean like Kreia would know how the Mandalorians thought about the Exile ? You mean like Kreia was maybe just running her mouth to increase the Exile's confidence ? Could that be ?
No shit, Padawan Anakin Skywlaker could beat Mandalore by simple force choking him. The POINT was on equal fotting ie: No force powers or lightsabers, Mandalore is likely the better, as he proved in the duel.
Oh. You finally got it ? Mandalore proved to be the better ? Did you read the same comic that I did read ? Mandalore attacks on his flying mount. One strike and he's down. Then Ulic throws his lightsaber away, returns with a new weapon. Another strike and Mandalore is beaten. Where exactly was it when Mandalore proved himself to be superior ? When he landed a cheap shot on the unarmed Ulic ?
And? Mandalore fell of a cliff. Woohoo...he does the same thing to Ulic, busts his helmet and sends him flying. They were quite equals, with Mandalore having the edge due to his experience.
You're ignorance is pretty annoying kid. He „fell of a cliff“ ? He was hammered down from that cliff by Ulic. And of course they were equal. Hence Mandalore was beaten by Ulic who sacrificed all advantages he had (force, lightsaber) and still won. Somehow your argument does actually contradict the BLATANT OBVIOUS EVENTS in the comic. Guess that means you're wrong.
Cause of the terrain, idiot, by that logic Obi Wan > Anakin, simply because he had the terrain advantage.
Let me analyse this. Ulic had the terrain advantage ? Let me see. Ulic stands on a freaking chain. Mandalore comes flying in with his flying mount. Terrain advantage ? Ulic ? No. That doesn't make sense. Then Ulic jumps up to Mandalore who is defending the high ground. Terrain advantage ? ULIC ? Erm...really...
What don't you get about this? Is it such a difficult concept to understand? Show me ONE battle that was so vicious that it could and did break the Jedi mentally in the GSW. That is the damn point, I don't give a shit about how much "terror" was unleashed by Kun. And a few battles? The Mando wars lasted two years longer then the "real" GSW.
Oh great defender of wisdom.
Let me just quote the nice novel „Shatterpoint“ to deal with this nonsense.
“Many survivors of Geonosis suffer from nightmares. I have heard tale after tale from the Jedi healers who have counseled them. Nightmares are inevitable; there has not been such a slaughter of Jedi since the Sith War, four thousand years ago.“
Now while I have to give you that KotoR 2 wasn't released when those lines were written: The Mandalorian Wars were still part of the continuity at that point of time. Still Mace decides to put the GSW above them and mentions that the GSW was enough to give Jedi nightmares. Which is only logical given the events of said wars which I've listed multiple times now. The onslaught of Kun and Ulic claimed more lives (and especially more Jedi, not even mentioning the horror of friends turning to the Dark Side) then the Mandalorian Wars. The following Jedi Civil War would be compareable but the Exile didn't witness the most of that.
Super, I don't give a shit, as thats not what I'm talking about.
No, my friend. This is exactly what you're talking about. Events that can make Jedi lose their control, confidence, mind right on the spot. And the GSW had quite more of those than the Mandalorian Wars.
Then you'd be an idiot.
And this is all we know about so far, in the wars 3 year time of Jedi involvement.
Did you somehow miss the „notable“ in my statement. The attack on Dxun is notable because it was stated to have been extremely bloody and it went on over months. That, of course, can't be said for other battles of the Mandalorian Wars listed hence a Jedi won't suffer from them. The only other notable confrontation was that above Malachor V because we know the effects of the Mass Shadow Generator and the destruction of so many lives on force users.
Um whose ass did you pull that from? Simply because the lightside ending is canon doesn't mean that that dictates what the player choices throughout the game, you see unlike KOTOR where if you either join or don't join Bastila that dictates what ending you get, however in KOTOR 2 no such event happens.And usually the lightside options involve unnecessary kindness, which Kreia berates and is attempting to teach the Exile not to do. Unless you can provide a quote from LFL or TastyTasty that says "LS option = all lightside choices in game." you don't have an damn point.
As I know that the application of logical reasoning is overexertion for you: The light side ending does determine the entire character of the Exile. That character has to fit the ending. Thereby commiting obvious „Dark Side“ acts is not possible as it doesn't fit the character of our protagonist. I'm pretty aware that the lightside ending is reachable even if you act „dark side“ in certain situations but the question is not: „What would you do ?“ the question is „What would a Jedi do ?“ And „killing one of the Jedi masters“ won't be an option in that case.
And please. „Unnecessary kindness“ ? The decissions that require such are pretty rare in the game – so are Kreia's comments on certain decissions. In fact, the first minutes of Nar Shadda are the only thing that apply here. And still a Jedi would rather take the way that requires „unnecessary kindness“ than anything else.
You can't prove that. As you can kill people like Zez without it having ANY planetary affect what so ever. Stop making shit up.
See above. You should stop to argue out of ignorance.
Except I can, because there is no canon saying that she DIDN'T kill one of them.
First: See above. Second: There is no canon saying that Ulic can't destroy planets with the power of his will. Stupidity at it's best. If you want to make an argument than you have to present proof that your argument is correct. And absense of proof against your argument (which isn't even present here) doesn't fit that criteria.
Great so was Shaela Nuur is she the god of force knowledge too?
Let me see. She was the most promissing student of the only being who survived confrontation with „the most powerful individual in the Galaxy“ aside from a direct supernova hit. I can't say if she's a „force god“ - but I'm quite sure she is no „mediocre Jedi“ either.
You can't prove how long Ulic spent on Arkania.
Oh, little kid. I, unlike you, are capable of reading.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=3&page=014
„At least, after years of training, they are to go forth to a mission of justice“
Years means, at the very least two years. Again you have been owned by the source material.
Other then I can make the Exile learn the ability to do that, really now Araca's students can block blaster fire..."OMGBBQ tey are teh most POWAFUL!!!!" big whoop. And the strongest ability he taught the was blocking blaster fire 🙄
Oh. You can make the Exile learn the ability ? Ah yeah...force deflection. That would help against starship fire ? Going by the fact that we actually see quite a lot of Jedi dying through blaster fire I doubt that this technique was commonly known.
Again, The Exile was taught to adhere to no particular dogma by Kreia, meaning she was taught not only Light but Darkside powers.
Again. Lightsiders don't use Darkside powers. By the way: Where did you ever see somebody teaching the Exile some Dark Side powers ?
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Ah what the f*ck is Ulic going to do? And name a power aside from the Amulet blast that the Exile hasn't seen, Considering she's taken force attacks from Atris who's own personal collection of Sith knowledge eclipses everything Ulic EVER had. From Kreia, from Nihlius, and from Sion.
The amulet would already be enough. Aside of that we could argue to what extend Kun shared his knowledge with Ulic in which case there might be a nice amount of force attacks the Exile has never seen in action.
No whats laughable is you assuming that it was all Ulic.You have two individually strong dark side adepts and then they stand together rippling with Dark Side energy, really its not impressive since he has Exar Kun standing right next to him. And the narration mentions that it was "their" power not "Ulics"
So wait...let me get this straight, he gets a tattoo and now all of a sudden he turns in to a force god? Get serious, how about maybe its the fact that Ulics PERSONALITY took a "astonishing transformation" as he goes from, pissed off not so confident in his choices dark side adept this can be seen as he's moaning to Aleema:
Your weak arguments are getting boring. First: I did never assume it was Ulic alone. Second: You really want to tell me that the „astonishing transformation“ is refering to Ulic's personality ? Now really. Aleema wakes up, looks at Ulic and notices a change of his personality ? Great. Especially when she only mentions power right in the next sentence. That totally makes sence. I'm really convinced by your astonishing explanation. But one little probleme here: That was most likely the most nonsensical bullshit I've ever read here, which means a lot considering Noobaris usual postings.
She fooled Jedi with illusions...OMG she's soooo strong, really you love to exaggerate lame ass feats.
Do I have to spell out everything obvious to you ? Aleema can kill anybody with said illusions that she can fool with that illusions. Meaning that she would be able to kill every Jedi but Nomi Sunrider who was the only one that noticed that the illusions were, you know, illusions.
A book which she stole from Coruscant which doesn't even touch the surface of the knowledge Kreia has. Sorry, Naga Sadows knowledge =/= All knowledge of the Ancient Sith
Let's just again enter the funny realm of speculation. What Kreia „had“ was extensive knowledge about the Sith history and, aside of that, knowledge about some Dark Side abilities most notably her force drain. Going by the fact you don't know what the book contained: Speculation.
And Sadow's knowledge ? The guy obviously had enough knowledge to alter lifeforms, generate new ones, blow sunsystems up, create solar flares. In short: He knew quite a lot about Sith magic and Sith alchemy, two disciplines that Kreia (as well as most people living after Kun's time) didn't know jack shit about. Sadow's knowledge is quite as close as you can get to „all knowledge of the Ancient Sith“ without asking Ragnos personally for details. And the only one who actually did that was Sidious.
And a sentence later it says..."Only some unexpected maneuver could save Kas'im now.
It's nice that you slowly begin to understand the worth of superior knowledge, control and skill. Why was Kas'im able to come up with an „unexpected“ manouver ? Because he exceeded Bane in lightsaber mastery. Now let's apply this obseveration on a duel between the Exile and Ulic. The Exile might be able to mimic everything that Ulic shows to her, same way Bane did mimic Kas'im. But she still won't have the lightsaber mastery that Ulic does possess. Or, to make it short, the ability to use improvisation. Because if you only „copy“ something you can't come up with something new. Thus meaning that Ulic's advantage in terms of lightsaber combat will always stay the same. You can't „negate“ that as you want us to believe.
Other then as said it takes 3 Jedi Masters, including Vrook who happened to be "one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the galaxy."
It takes one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the Galaxy before Kun's utter extermination of them (Vodo), a prodigy that would – some years later – become the de facto leader of the Jedi Order (Nomi Sunrider) and the power of six additional Jedi to temporarily affect Ulic with the wall of light attack. You were saying ?
She's absorbed the energy of hundreds of beings
These said Masters make note of her power
The omniscient narrator notes Ulics power. Why you actually even post such statements ?
She's able to read the thoughts of people en-mass on her first try:"You are strong indeed what you heard were surface thoughts, but it is some thing MASTERS have trained for many years and never learned." - Kreia
That would of course help her in an actual duel, especially since we've never seen her performing this in an actual fight.
She's able to mimic perfectly anything thrown at her:Vrook: Are you arrogant enough to think you can divide your attention fighting me?
Exile: One can learn much by simply observing their foe
Vrook: You think you can learn my technique just by watching me? It takes a Jedi Master many years to even perfect it."
Exile begins to shit on him
Vrook: Its not possible! You...you must be stopped!
She is FAR more powerful in the force then Ulic.
a) Since when does the ability to mimic things is a testament of power ?
b) Nice. She can learn things by observing people for an unknown amount of time just to use the technique with an unknown grade of skill afterwards. Aside from the fact that this, again, has never been demonstrated in battle making the usage of this argument rather questionable for this debate, I still don't see where it should get her. She can't anticipate „new“ movements instantly, meaning Ulic might still strike her down with a lightsaber before she figured out how to deal with him.
Great to see you can pay attention to the game, the Mandalorians under Mandalore The Ultimate began recruiting aliens and doctoring their conquered species into their cultures such as slaves like Mira once was who uses her Mandalorian training to become one of the most skilled and feared bounty hunters in the galaxy.
Oh. That makes the individual Mandalorian more powerful how exactly ?
So wait, because Ulic is an arrogant rtard thats to be taken against Mandalore?
No. The fact that Mandalore is only capable to hit Ulic when Uilc did just threw his weapon away is what should be taken against Mandalore. I could have pulled that off in the same situation. It was a cheap shot. That's it.
And that changes the fact that she shows viable fear during the cutscene on Malachor? No. Rather irrelevant.
What cutscene on Malachor ? The one where her powers have been drained by Nihilus and she, without any defence because of that, gets kicked around by Sion ? That means she fears Sion while being in her normal condition ? Obviously that is not the case given how she insults him and keeps him like a b*tch once she has her power back. Arguing against facts much ?
And yes, Malachor > Izizs, because other then Malachor is a PLANET, and Iziz is a CITY, Malachors darkness, damn near broke Revan, broke Traya, corrupted hundreds of Jedi and turned them just by them tasting the DS energy being summoned up by Revan at Malachor V it also drove them into a frenzy. This same darkness that literally WAS a planet full of dark side objects and teachings. This same darkness that just by WALKING on it (before it was dispelled by Kreia) could break a Jedi. The lights going out on Iziz don't compare.
Are you that stupid ? You really must be. So the ground troops send down to Malachor by Revan were instantly broken when setting a food on the planet ? You did notice that it was the destruction of Malachor and the wound in the force created thereby was which caused everything you have mentioned ? No. Obviously you didn't realize that.
And Iziz is a city spanning „thousands of square miles“. I guess the Trayus Academy on Malachor (which is the „dark side place“ there) simply pales in comparison to that. Unless you show me were the Exile needed days / years to walk through it.
Warb sucks, buddy, as Allankles pointed out and I go into below.
Allankles pointed out how ignorant he is. I'm pretty sure you can outclass him in that department.
And that compares to having to have three Jedi Masters needed to even touch you. To beating people like Atris who has over a dozen Sith holocrons at her disposal?
Needing eight Jedi to actually touch you pretty much tops that. Yes. Stalemating Kun who had mastered Sith magic and alchemy completely also tops this. Easily.
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And yet he doesn't have the power to replicate it in anyway what so ever when we see he perform with the Amulet. Go figure...
Which Kun noticed in the very same moment he looked at Ulic of course. Here the more likely process of thought: That guy, like me, owns a Sith amulet. I know how powerful that is and how to use it because Nadd told me. Nadd did also talk to that guy there so most likely he knows what I know. I better leave that amulets out of the fight and take him out with a lightsaber.
Aside of that: Ulic still only has to replicate his personal first use of the amulet. Nothing else.
Given that we only see about 15 Jedi/Sith during the span of the comic series, Its a FAR stretch to call ULIC the prodigy of his era, and no, stalemating Kun does NOT make them equals as Kun got stronger AFTER that encounter. As I've said MULTIPLE times.
Given how Nomi Sunrider who becomes the leader of the Jedi some years later can't match Ulic in terms of power alone I'd say he's pretty much the prodigy of that time. Save for Kun of course who's even more powerful in the later stages of his life.
Oh yes lets all pher teh mightey War Null!!!11! The same guy who's master thought would get his ass beat by Ulic, which Freedon Naad agrees with, the same guy who's "brief career" was ended with one slash. Oh and OTHER then Ulic was using the Dark Side to do this:"Victorious, Ulic feels no jubilation, only a dark vertigo."
"My head, I feel like I'm falling...from a great height."
But I forgot beating CAY QEL DROMA and OSS WILLIUM is a mark of power 🙄 He blows, get over it.
Your so called logic and your so called arguments really mark you as epitome of stupidity. Nadd pretty much tells Ulic that he will become „one of the great“ force users with only one being (namely Kun) being even greater then him. Of course Nadd did think that Ulic will overcome Warb Null. The point is: Who else could ? Given how easily Warb Null deals with anybody else to state that he „blows“ is pretty hilarious. Really.
Aside of that this is a nice example of a circle argument. We take a wrong premise as basis (in this case “Ulic sucks”). Then we proceed to the next step (in this case “Because Ulic did suck and he did beat Warb Null, Warb Null must suck too”). Now for completing the circle we use the argument to proof or basic argument (here “Because Warb Null sucked and Ulic did just barely beat him, Ulic must suck !”). Congratulations. That's really the highest class of debating skill archieveable...by complete morons like yourself.
Other then you BLATANTLY misquoting Kreia, she was speaking in respect to their LIGHTSABER skill, not their "prowess in battle" where the hell did you get that shit from? And then you'd have to prove that Warb's sorry ass was possed by someone who had the skill of Tulak Hord and he was just some random Ancient Sith who was nothing special. As GAoTS shows: Not every Sith is an "uber badass". Try Again.
I'm not missquoting her. That's exactly what she says. I'm so sorry, dude.
And I don't have to proof that Warb was possessed by someone who had the skill of Tulak Hord. Kreia still talks about the Ancient Sith in general. And GaotS shows what exactly ? What I see is muscle packed freaks with huge swords. Of course some of them get killed, yes. That says what exactly, ass they are either taken down by surprise attacks OR by Jedi ?
And the Echani...Tera Kasi anyone...The first to create each of the first 6 forms...the other magnitude of fighting styles in the Star Wars galaxy...
All with one respective master and I was of course talking about lightsaber styles since they are the only thing compareable. Aiding Hord and Mace that would make (together with the inventors of the original forms) ten people. Hmm...this in a galaxy with quadrillion inhabitants at any given point in time. Even if you take all creators of any known form of combat that would just be a hand full of people compared to the population of the Galaxy.
The limit of "skill" we see Kun perform with the Double Bladed Saber is hammering down on a stick like a madman. And this is coming from a guy who he says in DLOTS that he is almost done with his lightsaber training, meaning he has no real combat experience and his duels are limited to Sylvar, Crado and Ulic. I ask AGAIN how does that make Exar Kun the epitome of lightsaber dueling? Now, before you go "LAWLZ he had Naga Sadow knowldege!!" Other then Naga Sadow didn't use a lightsaber and as we've seen from GAoTS sucked without his trinkets (the most we see him do without them is lob a non lethal brick)
Judging lightsaber skills going by pictures without any display of movement surely is a nice idea. Fact: Nobody was capable of sucessfully challenging Exar Kun at the end of his life. That puts his lightsaber skill above anybody else alive at this point in time which would be – erm „thousands upon thousands of Jedi“. Somehow it really doesn't seem as if his style sucked. But of course we can have a look to the other epitomes of lightsaber combat: Somehow it seems as if they develop their skill to practice rather than through actual duels. Do you know how many practice sessions Kun has gone through ? Oh no. Obviously enough to become the best duellist of his time – a time which had people alive that actually fought against the Ancient Sith personally or witnessed things like the last uprising of Dark Jedi, 400 years before Kun's time ? The great droid revolution anybody ?
And starting like this: What made the Exile so great as she duelled precisely nobody (for all we know) until the events of KotoR 2 ?
The only logical answer would be his force connection, a fact which you yourself has denied having any thing to do with a duel.
Ahahaha. A talent for wielding a certain type of weapon is obviously not linked to some force connection. Otherwise there would be no prodigies in the Martial Arts sector which still seem to exists on planet Earth where force sensitive people are rather erm...non-existant. Obviously it can be explained by dedication to the art (e.g. Dooku / Kas'im), practice or a damn lot of other reasonable explanations where everything you have to offer is „duelling experience“ and „force power“.
So...that some how makes them a match for a Jedi Master? So with a little of Naga's knowledge, you can go from not so special (and dumb Exar's great charisma and negotiating skills seemed to be largely on par with that of a sexual predator with the "hey I got something for you...come back to my place and you can touch it" ) padawan to uber powerful Jedi Master slaying Sith neophyte? BULL SHIT.
They were possessed (partitially) by the spirits of Ancient Sith themselves. That nice things that came out of the holocron when Exar did brake it. I thought that was pretty obvious. After this Exar even says something like „I gave you the knowledge“ which obviously means that through that action he gave them some knowledge – at least enough knowledge to take down some rather powerful Jedi Masters. As the Jedi finding one of them notice that this was indeed unusual and the attackers must have possessed “very powerful weapons”.
And why weren't these same Sith in turn who fled Yavin for Korriban and set up the academy able to not only fail to be any significant threat to the Jedi (the point to which they could willingly infiltrate the Academy, right after the GSW) or even Revan for that matter who simple walked in and took the bad boy over?
Urm. What „same Sith“ are you talking about ? The spirits of ancient force users aside from some special occassions (Nadd, Kun, Ragnos) are pretty much powerless in their spectral forms as can be noticed in KotoR especially when Revan confronts Pall who keeps whining about how weak he got or Nadd in the TOTJ comics who himself states that he isn't a thread for any Jedi in his current state. But as you're talking about Sith from Korriban you must be talking about some of Kun's students. Erm...where did you see some of them surviving ?
And I'd say you'd be a retard, but thats just me. Other then his "style" was limited to thrusting up and down like a idiot till your opponent quits, and he didn't even finish his damn lightsaber training under VODO, that hardly puts him on the level of someone who mastered every form and in turn created a style that negates any advantage the Dark Side gives to a force user, but again thats just me. and creating the thing has no bearing on actual battle skill.
See above.
Um no, they weren't. Ulic was his equal in LIGHTSABER combat, in the force, no. As he obviously can't make the amulet perform to the same level Kun can and Kun after the point of the duel far surpasses him in the force.
Being equal to Kun in lightsaber combat is impressive enough. In the force he technically can't have been much worse compared to Kun. Otherwise Kun would have owned him on the spot which he didn't. Of course Kun at the end of his life was more powerful than Ulic and even there and then he was most likely superior to Ulic when it came to force powers. Yet he, while clearly having the intention to kill Ulic on the spot, didn't try to own Ulic with his force powers.
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Well lets she she's already a skilled duelist to begin with to the point where she could hack off Kreia's hand (And no it wasn't her off hand, EVERYONE in KOTOR is right handed as all their dominate combat stats are given to the right and anything put in the left is lesser thus making it the off hand, to which certain weapons such as short sabers are given stat advantages for being placed in the off had: the left. Her left gets hacked off.) and she has HIGHLY advanced precognitive abilities and due to her not knowing she's doing it as Brianna says it makes her "very dangerous".
No. She's not a skilled duellist “to begin with”. She's a skilled duellist, maybe, at the end of KotoR 2. And please. When has Kreia ever shown to be anything special in terms of lightsaber combat ? Given how pathetically easy Sion did cut her other hand off, I don't see how that action would need a “skilled duellist” to perform. Highly advanced precognition ? Why don't you simply write: And she's a Jedi. Because that actually applies to all of them. And precognition itself makes you dangerous ? Since when ?
With that being said she could easily hold Ulic off, then when she's seen enough of his attacks, turn his shit right back on him in face, while he proceeds to take in the "WTF" moment, he gets diced.
Rediculous. So first she will miracously manage to hold a lightsaber prodigy off which combat style is completely unknown to her. Then she will do this over an unknown amount of time until she's able to mimic Ulic's movements, while we don't even know if she can learn that fast in combat. And then Ulic will just wait for that moment instead of doing something. For example: Blast her to death with that nice Sith amulet or cut her into pieces since she needs to anticipate movements which, precog or not, can not be done before the movements are actually performed.
Everyone in their mother isn't the Exile, an anomaly, who do to her nature can mimic things simply by viewing them, she's the only one in the star wars universe who can do do this. Not possible? Vrook pissing his pants proves you wrong, her being able to master digging into peoples heads in a matter of minutes something Kreia says it takes Jedi Masters YEARS to learn and some can't even do it, or other then Kreia's constant notes of how powerful the Exile either is or is becoming, and the Jedi Masters even acknowledging her power. Her nature makes her a prodigy.
Yes. Being able to listen to some “surface thoughts” now translates into “digging into peoples heads”. Hilarious. Then, of course, her nature makes the Exile a prodigy because she – can reproduce movement after some (minutes ? Seconds ? Hours ? Days ?) of training with a master teaching her a certain technique.
Which I've done time and time again I'll even list it out for you:She beat Traya who is very powerful in the force, to the point where she can force wave three VERY powerful Jedi Masters at once then again overcome Vrook also.
Kun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kreia
Sidenote: Why do you list Kreia's most important power (in fact the only impressive she ever used) when it's the very same technique that can't be used against the Exile ?
She beat Atris who had the aid of DOZENS of Sith Holocrons
Still not compareable to stalemating Kun.
She pushed back Sion being aided by the dark taint of Malachor
You mean she survived long enough to talk him into death. Maybe she will start talking until Ulic has fallen into a nice sleep and cut him down then.
She was noted by Kreia and The Jedi Masters as very powerful in the force
Of course nobody did ever notice Ulic's power... 🙄
She was able to dig into peoples heads simply by being told how to do it, even though Kreia says it takes Masters years to learn and even still some fail
Again “reading surface thoughts” doesn't mean the same thing as “digging into people's heads” which is even less likely when the “target” of such an ability is a force user.
She gained power from hundreds of beings throught the galaxy
More precisely please. She gained an unknown amount of power from an unknown amount of beings which she added to her unknown previous skill (average, mediocre). The result still remains an unknown. But by sheer grandeur of your messiahesque persona this proofs that the Exile > Ulic in terms of raw force power.
It takes three Jedi Masters to even hold her in the Wall of light
It takes one Master (Vodo), one prodigy (Nomi) and six additional Jedi to affect Ulic with a temporary version of the Wall of Light.
She can beat any one of the Jedi Masters (save Kavar) with little re training in the force and not having absorbed any of the other masters (by simply doing that planet after leaving Telos) even Vrook who was noted as being "one of the most powerful Jedi masters in the galaxy" and who had served on the Dantooine Jedi council since the GSW and was on the very first Coruscant high council simultaneously. Vrook also IMMEDIATELY recovered from Kreia's attack to get hit and rise up again.
Ok. Arguing against canon wasn't your smartest decission. Arguing some bug in the game as canon now definetely trumps all. Where does one of them “get up” ? Kreia attacks, they die.
I didn't change shit, and their are no "default" rules, the rules are defined and can be changed at anytime by me, the topic creator, now while I will allow both to be at their prime the POINT was YOU don't decide it, I do.
Must be a hard thing to read. If you don't give a specific version of a character the only reasonable decission is to take the most powerful versions of said characters. So you made the decission by not making it. And yes. You can change the rules. Which would still be rediculous in the midst of a debate.
Uh, no. Other then thats an out of universe explanation, they look nothing alike and
This is again just one great cycle argument.
“Those beams don't look alike”
“Yeah. Different artists.”
“This is an out of universe explanation and aside of that: They don't look alike.”
I'd say your amount of knowledge about how to apply logical reasoning is matching the knowledge of a dead fish when it comes to freeclimbing.
Oh yes advice to the limit of:"Good did I not say the Dark Side is all."
That tells him EVERYTHING about the amulet.
You have the source material. You have eyes. Why don't you use them ? That quote is nice. Did you just not see the page right before the one you've quoted.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=101
Nadd to Kun: ”Focus your anger through the amulet – it is no mere decoration. It is a Dark Side weapon.” What were you saying ? Thanks for ignoring the material once again.
He's clearly angled sideways, and he's clearly not shooting into the beats mouth for what ever reason as the beam doesn't even make contact with the beast. Aside from that its rather irrelevant since that lowly beam alone is more powerful then the uncontrolled energy that Ulic unleashed.
Oh yes. Explanation: See above. Aside of that let's not forget how that little fight goes on.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=103
Kun: “The energy keeps increasing”
Narrator: “With every pulse of his anger the amulet doubles the power of its discharge”
Obviously: The longer you wear and use it, the more control you gain and the more powerful the damage dealt by the amulet gets. Ulic had his for some minutes and never used it before when blasting Nomi Sunrider. This aside from the fact that he, unlike Kun, didn't have the instructions what to do with said amulet.
And? For this to be the same case with Ulic, he'd have to be able to CONTROL the amulet to the level that Kun could, and as he was saying he could BARLEY do it:"But Exar Kun is perplexed. He knows he was barley able to control the power of the amulet..."
and he was almost killed by performing this feat:
"Indeed, it almost killed him."
Oh. It's missinterpretation day again ? First this is an expression of Kun's thoughts. Second: It's not “It almost killed him” but “It almost destroyed him”. Third and last: We see that this thought is obviously wrong considering how he uses the amulet again to exterminate Nadd just five seconds later and how he later also uses the amulet when attacking the Senate on Coruscant. So where did the amulet actually “kill” him or “destroy” him ?
Compare this to Ulic who couldn't even control the first one, or make it do any substantial damage and Exar is more powerful in the force then he is, and he almost died doing it, Ulic would die attempting what Kun did to the beast. Hence why the limit that should be used in debate is what we first see him doing.
You can argue this until you are blue in the face: Ulic is at least capable of bringing the Exile down on her knees with one blast which would enable him to kill her. And please. The “limit” that should be used in debates is what Ulic has shown when using the amulet for the first time, without even knowing what it does exactly ? Really. You would have to estimate that Kun didn't tell him a thing about the amulet despite the fact, that Ulic was his apprentice. And this over the time-span of six months. Laughable.
...continue...
...last part...
Pretty much. Nomi was able to beat her back before, with her battle meditation. Aleema sucks, the extent of her power is a Sith spell book, which almost every other heavy hitter Jedi/Sith's power/knowledge far eclipses.
Again. There is one person with one single power able to counter Aleema's illusions. Your conclusion: Aleema sucks. Using the same sort of logic: Nihilus force drain can only be defeated by one person (the Exile) with one single ability (being a wound in the force). Logical conclusion: Nihilus drain sucks.
Does that make sense to you ? Because apparently Aleema was capable of fooling, and thereby killing, everybody but Nomi with her illusions.
Think about what your saying, how in the hell does trying to affect other force users with the force somehow make YOU more powerful? Think about it.
Obviously Nomi made herself more powerful by using her battle meditation which is pretty apparent since she uses it to defend herself against the attack of Aleema. Go and read the comics before starting to argue with me.
Use your goddamn head. She says she prepared ahead of time for Aleamas attack, she got a 1 second warning from Cay to attempt to block the Amulet Ulic pulls out from his ass.
Her preparation is to use Battle Meditation. The same Battle Meditation that is still active when she confronts Ulic, which Ulics pretty much STATES himself. What is it you don't get here ? I make it easier for you. Somebody uses a force shield to defend against attack A, then keeps the force shield up and is hit by attack B. Now. Did the force shield stop at least a part of the "attack B" ? Of course. Would the results of that attack be more devastating in the case that this "force shield" wasn't there ? Obviously yes.
BTW please stop saying "Go figure" you take somewhat witty and sarcastic phrases and use them so much that they become very lame, this goes for almost everyone one of your openers (Yay!, Oh My, This is getting better and better! Ups!) and your closers (Go figure, Uh-hu) to even your insults.
I awfully sorry that I have annoyed the class primus by repeating myself. How about this: If teenagers in the midst of their puberty, like you son, weren't such annoying little pricks who estimate they have sucked wisdom in with their mother's milk, they wouldn't be stupid noobs. In this case I might even take them serious. But until then I don't really see a point in wasting 2 seconds to come up with somewhat creative insults or phrases. Finished with the ad hominem now ?
...why do I waste my time, I rarely call people this because it usually doesn't fit, but you are a damn fanboy, Ulic can now beat the Exile in ONE SECOND...get the f*ck out of here fanboy, and take Ulics dick out your mouth while your at it.
Oh. As it appears you hadn't finished the ad hominem yet. As long as you don't have any viable counter-argument, and with that I don't mean an ad hominem argument but more something like an ad rem or better an exemplum in contrarium, you should better keep your mouth shut. Argumentum ad absurdum...doesn't help you to win debates, kid. Proof that the Exile can resist one blast of the amulet – and if you can't: shut up.
The point: He doesn't use it, he NEVER displays the control of Exar Kun, He NEVER displays the force talent of Exar Kun, therefore his amulet will not be on the level of Exar Kun, moreover even if it was he'd die in the process of trying to kill his foe.
See above. Argumentum nego consequentiam. The power of the blast is neither determined by force power, nor did it almost kill Kun. It's based on hatred and Kun seems to be just fine and confident enough to use the amulet some seconds after giving the previous statement. Without being killed, wounded, destroyed or damaged otherwise.
And thats relevant how? As she attains a prodigal level of learning and ability upon her retain to the force.
It just proofs that your entire "but she had X years to become more powerful" arguments are useless.
Not really, since EVERY force user has basic applications of the force ie: Telekinesis, and the extent to which is limited to the users connection. And what the f*ck are you talking about? I've purposely limited this discussion to force abilities the Exile logically has (TK) or has displayed in cutscenes (Highly Advanced telepathy, Highly Precognitive abilities, Beast Control, Force Breath, Her mimic ability, He bonding ability) and with that I use quotes about her power and logical deduction.
No. What you've done with the sentence you posted before that was trying to totally limit Ulic to what he does "on panel" without allowing any logical deduction. I just showed you how rediculous that is.
Oh my that makes all the difference 🙄 They were using the force to augment their physical power to hold Ulic down, thats what you should say. And that doesn't change the fact that Qrrl completely overpowered an enraged Ulic with one hand.
No. What doesn't change is, when it comes down to facts, that it needed two people using their physical strength and their force power to keep Ulic where he was for a few seconds. A wounded Ulic if I may add that. What you again try to do is taking some small scale observation and try to apply it as only viable observation in the grant sheme of things. Comparison: Kreia after being force drained had the living shit kicked out of her by the Sion. Conclusion: Kreia's a weakling. As you see, that doesn't make any sense.
Of what undetermined power? As droids in the TOTJ era quite frankly sucked. And looked shoddy and weak.
Go and tell that to General Grievous who's "weak" droid body was actually based on the construction of a Krath War Droid. But he totally sucks of course. 🙄
Yeah they did, and what does his ribs have to do with anything? He's a force user, they can block out pain especially in a fit of rage as he was in.
Typed the guy who just two minutes before stated how notable it must be that Qrrl overpowered Ulic with one hand. So if a force user uses only one hand to hold somebody down (while using the force to do it at the same time) that some notable thing. If a force users suffers from a physical injury it doesn't matter, because he's a force user. Hilarious.
Notice how he was almost instantly hit by the Wall of Light coming from Nomi and Vodo. I guess it's hard to use some force based amulet when you have no connection to the force any longer...And ANY of the KOTOR masters > Vodo.
Yes dude. Sure. Aside from the fact that Ulic was hit by the wall of light coming from Vodo, Nomi and six other Jedi - how did you develop the thought that KotoR masters > Vodo ?
I didn't see a 600 year old KotoR master, save for Vandar maybe but he had nothing to do with the Exile. Then of course, we have Nomi here who's by far > any of the KotoR masters. Adding another six Jedi did surely help. Really. What did you want to tell me ? KotoR > all ? Nice you've outed yourself as a fanboy once again. Aside of that you're still quite the pathetic noob.
So to sum this up. You're really trying to win a debate by having no proof for your personal oppinion. And instead from trying to actually find some, you come up with the same useless statements, wrong premises, ignorance of the actual material as well as the overall canon and of course baseless speculations again and again. Nice job. But it still doesn't help you winning debates.
I'd like to recomment Arthur Schopenhauers "Die Kunst, Recht zu behalten" ("The Art of Controversy"😉 - maybe that will help you to come up with something useful. Dum spiro, spero. 🙄
Originally posted by Borbarad
What we know is that the confrontation was descriped as being „epic“. Now Revan had his force powers and his lightsaber and obviously used them. Ulic did own a more powerful Mandalore with two strikes while not having that advantages. Can you draw the conclusion yourself?
The actual words of Canderous regarding the clash between Revan and Mandalore - The Ultimate are: "Mandalore himself was killed at the hands of the Jedi Revan. The best of us could not defeat him!"
And how the hell do you know that Mandalore - The indomitable was more powerful then Mandalore - The Ultimate?
Canderous said that Mandalore - The Ultimate was the only known Mandalorian to be quickest ever to master the use of Basilisk War droids. This single case shows that Mandalore - The Ultimate was more talented then his ancestor.
And not to forget the fact that Mandalore - The Ultimate trained his forces in the same region where Mandalore - The indomitable was torn to pieces by the native beats. He considered that place to be an ideal training ground for his forces. And this case shows the extent of his skill in combat.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Canderous said that Mandalore - The Ultimate was the only known Mandalorian to be quickest ever to master the use of Basilisk War droids. This single case shows that Mandalore - The Ultimate was more talented then his ancestor.
No, it doesn't.
A stand alone piece of information, such as the one you presented, in no way means he's overall "more talented". That's completely idiotic.
By this logic, because person A manages to comprehend passage X in a shorter amount of time than person B, A is greater than B in all general reading aspects. Which is riddled with fault in it. He may have been able to grasp the usage of the war droids more naturally, and faster, but does this mean he's 'more talented'?
Short answer: No.
And not to forget the fact that Mandalore - The Ultimate trained his forces in the same region where Mandalore - The indomitable was torn to pieces by the native beats.
This means what exactly?
If you recall, he was attacked after crashing his ship by two or possibly more predators. If you can prove to me that had Mandalore the Ultimate been in the same position he would've survived, then perhaps you'd have a point. But, you can't, so you don't.
He considered that place to be an ideal training ground for his forces. And this case shows the extent of his skill in combat.
Again, this means what exactly? He set camps on Dxun, so what? This in no way necessarily puts him above the previous Mandalore, as you're trying to imply.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Now while I have to give you that KotoR 2 wasn't released when those lines were written: The Mandalorian Wars were still part of the continuity at that point of time. Still Mace decides to put the GSW above them and mentions that the GSW was enough to give Jedi nightmares. Which is only logical given the events of said wars which I've listed multiple times now. The onslaught of Kun and Ulic claimed more lives (and especially more Jedi, not even mentioning the horror of friends turning to the Dark Side) then the Mandalorian Wars. The following Jedi Civil War would be compareable but the Exile didn't witness the most of that.
She saw millions and millions or an un-precedented number of Republic soldiers, Jedi and Mandalorians getting ripped to shreds by a single blow of a super-weapon known as Mass Shadow Generator, which she ordered to activate during the battle of Malachor V. She was so shocked by the un-precedented scale of destruction that unfolded in-front of her eyes that she could not bear the pain and fully severed her connection with the Force.
This single battle not only proved to be too costly for the Mandalorian forces but also for the Republic forces and the Jedi. No one was spared in this battle. Now how many battles have you seen in Star Wars in which a leader would be willing to sacrifice his entire military force to defeat an adversary in a single blow?
And show me one battle of GSW that can even compare to this level of atrocity?
Originally posted by Advent
No, it doesn't.A stand alone piece of information, such as the one you presented, in no way means he's overall "more talented". That's completely idiotic.
By this logic, because person A manages to comprehend passage X in a shorter amount of time than person B, A is greater than B in all general reading aspects. Which is riddled with fault in it. He may have been able to grasp the usage of the war droids more naturally, and faster, but does this mean he's 'more talented'?
Short answer: No.
Originally posted by Advent
This means what exactly?If you recall, he was attacked after crashing his ship by two or possibly more predators. If you can prove to me that had Mandalore the Ultimate been in the same position he would've survived, then perhaps you'd have a point. But, you can't, so you don't.
Originally posted by Advent
Again, this means what exactly? He set camps on Dxun, so what? This in no way necessarily puts him above the previous Mandalore, as you're trying to imply.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And you forgot that Exile witnessed an event or an atrocity that can be considered to be the most barbaric in the history of Star Wars.
Laughable. This is far from being the most babaric act in the history of Star Wars.
She saw millions and millions or an un-precedented number of Republic soldiers, Jedi and Mandalorians getting ripped to shreds by a single blow of a super-weapon known as Mass Shadow Generator, which she ordered to activate during the battle of Malachor V. She was so shocked by the un-precedented scale of destruction that unfolded in-front of her eyes that she could not bear the pain and fully severed her connection with the Force.
Erm. Millions and millions ? Last time I checked it were "thousands". Kun and Ulic (through Aleema) did destroy an entire sun-system at least by creating an artificial supernova. The Dark Reaper took down "thousands" while Ulic watched it. Not to mention that Ulic and his Mandalorians have been stated to have countered "countless worlds" during the GSW. I'd say Ulic had seen far more devastating things than the activation of the Mass Shadow Generator.
This single battle not only proved to be too costly for the Mandalorian forces but also for the Republic forces and the Jedi. No one was spared in this battle. Now how many battles have you seen in Star Wars in which a leader would be willing to sacrifice his entire military force to defeat an adversary in a single blow?
How did Revan risk his entire military force ?
He did sent down troops which loyality to him was in question to the planet. Then he did blow the thing up when the Mandalorians attacked.
And show me one battle of GSW that can even compare to this level of atrocity?
The Dark Reaper Campaign (superweapon killing thousand of beings) before the weapon was disabled with the help of Ulic.
The destruction of the Cron Cluster (artificial supernova) which led to the complete destruction of three inhabited sun-systems. This including, just as example, the destruction of Urkupp (home of the Deshade race) which alone most likely claimed billions of lives. Aside of the complete destruction of the (at least 10) Kemplex outposts (most likely thousands of victims).
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You should note that Mandalore - The Ultimate did managed to train and create the most powerful Mandalorian military in the history of Star Wars, which was capable enough to defeat the forces of the Galactic Republic of his age. However Mandalore - The indomitable never managed to create a Mandalorian military so powerful. So once again, Mandalore - The Ultimate proved to be more talented then his ancestor.
Oh yeah.
He created that out of nothing. No wait. Mandalore the Indomitable already had a pretty well trained Mandalorian military under his command. And in case you don't remember: Mandalore under the command of Ulic did pretty successfully conquer Coruscant before Aleema's betrayal with his troops.
Again, there is a possibility that Mandalore - The Ultimate could also get exposed to such a scenario in the jungles of Dxun but he did not failed. He considered that place to be an ideal training ground for him and his forces for a good reason after-all.
Urm. There is the possibility that Mandalore the Ultimate can do some nice crash landing on Dxun and then be attacked by some predators instantly while only having some little melee weapon as defence ?
He established a strong-hold on Dxun and started training his forces over there because he considered that place to be an ideal training ground for his forces due to tough challenges they could experience in that place. He wanted to ensure that his warriors could survive even in the toughest challenges.
They fortified the entire planet to an extend that Revan took months to retake it while his troops were outnumbering 10 to 1. And notice how the Mandalorians in KotoR 2 where actually dealing with the jungle enviroment. To quote Kex: "The only advice I'll give you when you're in the jungle, shoot anything that moves. Then shoot the things that don't move, just to be sure." Doesn't seem as they were really interrested in some "survival training" with the beasts present there. In fact some of them were pretty much too dangerous even for the Mandalorians. Also note the nice "training arena" they had there in KotoR 2. If they were interested in jungle training one should expect that they would test their skills in the jungle. Yet they only seem to go into the jungle armed as heavily as possible.