Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Perhaps my information is inaccurate but didn't the Daxamites under his control revert to form once he was splitting his concentration too much? If that's the case it would mean he never reprogrammed them but had to maintain constant control and contact.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But why compare them to Mantis's when they're completely different characters. If you want him bumped up based on his feats that's one thing(go ahead and make your case), but bumping him just because Mantis gets bumped is bullshit because as I said she has a lot of things going for her that he lacks. That's like saying that just because Yuga Khan can solo the New Gods, Galactus MUST be able to also even though they have completely different resources at their disposal.
Val has already been bumped up. End of story.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wouldn't that mean that the people he's beaten should be taken down a tier rather than him being bumped up by your reasoning? Especially DS, after all he's lost to Supes several times now so by your reasoning he should be on the Transcendent tier.
dontgetit
Superman's feats>Champion's.
By far.
Originally posted by darthgoober
The same Thor that got blown off with the rest, and was then beaten on by Champion later you mean?
Thor was using his strength to hold on to Champion. It's not like they matched energy output.
Champion blasting Thor off of him means squat. Especially since everyone else was back up a panel later. You can show me those scans all you want (which compared to others in the herald level category aren't that impressive), but Champion being above herald level is hysterical.
Thor's feats>Champion's.
Originally posted by darthgoober
So maybe he should be taken up a tier 😖hifty: ...
Why him but none of the others I mentioned?
Originally posted by darthgoober
How many strait up fights with Herald level guys do you think Champion's been in on panel? I can think of...one(his fight with Surfer). The rest were all things like Boxing matches where he didn't really let loose. And what's more in the Surfer fight Champion was fighting out of character, so it's kinda iffy as to whether or not that's even valid.
Right... his only showing where he doesn't completely suck donkey balls makes transcendent level. ❌
Anyway, I suggest we put this to a vote.
Originally posted by batdude123
Val has already been bumped up. End of story.
Originally posted by batdude123
dontgetitSuperman's feats>Champion's.
By far.
Originally posted by batdude123
Thor was using his strength to hold on to Champion. It's not like they matched energy output.Champion blasting Thor off of him means squat. Especially since everyone else was back up a panel later.
Thor's feats>Champion's.
Originally posted by batdude123
Why him but none of the others I mentioned?
Originally posted by batdude123
Right... his only showing where he doesn't completely suck donkey balls makes transcendent level. ❌Anyway, I suggest we put this to a vote.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Not officially(it's not on the first page yet). And since the only reasoning behind it was the bullshit line of thought "well Mantis and Gamora are low level herald so KK should be too" I think it should be discussed some more since we're talking about three entirely different characters with 3 entirely different powersets.
I think the reason they were brought up is because they use MA as a main source of attack.
And KK was bumped up because he deserves to be there. At this point, I could care less about Gamora or Mantis. Val DESERVES to be there.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm saying that since you're wanting to downgrade Champion because of loses to herald level people, then the people you listed should be downgraded for the same reason.
Well then maybe the Omniverse should be bumped down to mid herald level. 😖hifty: 😛
Originally posted by darthgoober
Notice that on that next page, Champion actually punked that group into cooperating. And he beat the shit out of Thor when they fought too(which is why Thor went and got himself disqualified).
They had a fist fight in which Thor was not allowed to use Mjolnir. I have no problem saying Champion is more skilled than Thor.
And if you truly want to use that showing as gospel, than Thing>>everyone else who fought him. 😬
Originally posted by darthgoober
Because Surfer's was a stand alone feat(and because I was joking).
Ah...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you know of another strait up loss that wasn't something like a boxing match? Because a boxing match is hardly an indication of power.
So Champion fighting within character doesn't count anymore? 😬
I vote Champion down to mid herald level (at the very BEST).
Originally posted by batdude123
I think the reason they were brought up is because they use MA as a main source of attack.And KK was bumped up because he deserves to be there. At this point, I could care less about Gamora or Mantis. Val [b]DESERVES
to be there.[/B]
Anyway, what has KK done that deserves his being low herald? Because nothing I've heard about him seems beyond the abilities of the high metas.
Originally posted by batdude123
Well then maybe the Omniverse should be bumped down to mid herald level. 😖hifty: 😛
Originally posted by batdude123
And if you truly want to use that showing as gospel, than Thing>>everyone else who fought him. 😬
Originally posted by batdude123
So Champion fighting within character doesn't count anymore? 😬I vote Champion down to mid herald level (at the very BEST).
Originally posted by darthgoober
They're known for the abilities at MA, but that's hardly what places them there(Mantis actually deserves to be a mid level herald minimum since her upgrade as the Celestial Madonna).Anyway, what has KK done that deserves his being low herald? Because nothing I've heard about him seems beyond the abilities of the high metas.
Look in his respect thread. Awesome stuff there.
Originally posted by darthgoober
If you want to bump down DC's omniverse that's your argument.
My point is, Champion has never shown that kind of power. Nor will he ever. He truly isn't as impressive as you're trying to bill him here, I'm sorry to tell you. 😬
Originally posted by darthgoober
Just in heart batdude, just in heart...
Thing's punch>Champion's ribs.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Are we planning on limiting Champion to boxing matches in the ring here on KMC, because that's the only way his in ring performance would be applicable. You have to look OUTSIDE his boxing matches to get an accurate gauge of his power.
Champion doesn't have any other means of attack besides physical fighting. So yeah, his losses are just as applicable.
NOTHING I've seen from Champion puts him in transcendent level. And he certainly shouldn't be above Norrin who beat him.
Originally posted by batdude123
Look in his respect thread. Awesome stuff there.
Originally posted by batdude123
My point is, Champion has never shown that kind of power. Nor will he ever. He truly isn't as impressive as you're trying to bill him here, I'm sorry to tell you. 😬
Originally posted by batdude123
Thing's punch>Champion's ribs.
Originally posted by batdude123
Champion doesn't have any other means of attack besides physical fighting. So yeah, his losses are just as applicable.
Originally posted by batdude123
NOTHING I've seen from Champion puts him in transcendent level. And he [b]certainly shouldn't be above Norrin who beat him. [/B]
Originally posted by darthgoober
I've heard most of his impressive stuff brought up here, and I'm still not convinced. An Earth Quake, holding off herald level guys, it just doesn't rate a low herald in my book.
Just go there.
The stuff he can pull off is amazing. Most of which Iron Man could never hope to replicate. It's really hard to place Val though. He's a walking plot device that has the power of the writers, essentially. I don't think he deserves to be as low as high meta.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Neither have the random Daximites that pop up. But his powers been acknowledged by Surfer and Thor, he's virtually immortal, and he taps into the same power source as the rest of the Elders.
Yes, but I think that's an extremely lame way of gaging his power. Terrax also wields the power cosmic just like Surfer, but he's certainly not as powerful.
Someone who's been punked as many times as Champion has been in the past (especially by the caliber of people he's been punked by) doesn't deserve a spot in transcendent level.
He's never shown more raw power than the likes of Superman or Doomsday.
Originally posted by darthgoober
In a boxing match. And you're starting to sound like nvr with the rib breaking thing.
And? We can't ignore showings of durability simply because you don't like them.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure he does, I just showed you an energy blast. And boxing is boxing, you can't base how powerful someone is overall by their in ring performance, you have to look OUTSIDE the ring.
The majority of his fights are purely hand to hand. It's in his character to fight that way. He's used energy blasts twice his entire history. Other than that, it's his fists. Disregarding how he normally fights is bullshit. And again, we're not going to toss away instances of him losing because it doesn't suit your cause.
And btw, what DON'T you think is PIS nowadays? 😬
Originally posted by darthgoober
Norrin beat him when Champion was fighting out of character in the first issue of Surfer's new series, how else COULD that fight turn out.
🤨
How the hell was he fighting out of character? He was fighting perfectly in character for that encounter.
And again with the excuses to make a showing not count. It doesn't cut it with me.
We need to vote Champion down from transcendent. He certainly doesn't belong there.
Originally posted by batdude123
Just go there.The stuff he can pull off is amazing. Most of which Iron Man could never hope to replicate. It's really hard to place Val though. He's a walking plot device that has the power of the writers, essentially. I don't think he deserves to be as low as high meta.
Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, but I think that's an extremely lame way of gaging his power. Terrax also wields the power cosmic just like Surfer, but he's certainly not as powerful.Someone who's been punked as many times as Champion has been in the past (especially by the caliber of people he's been punked by) doesn't deserve a spot in transcendent level.
He's never shown more raw power than the likes of Superman or Doomsday.
He's only been beaten in a strait up fight once. If you count his loses from boxing matches, you also have to count that he has wins against Thor, Sasquatch, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Beta Rey Bill and countless other heroes(many of whom were in need of medical attention afterwards.
Originally posted by batdude123
And? We can't ignore showings of durability simply because you don't like them.
Originally posted by batdude123
The majority of his fights are purely hand to hand. It's in his character to fight that way. He's used energy blasts twice his entire history. Other than that, it's his fists. Disregarding how he normally fights is bullshit. And again, we're not going to toss away instances of him losing because it doesn't suit your cause.And btw, what [b]DON'T
you think is PIS nowadays? 😬 [/B]
Originally posted by batdude123
🤨How the hell was he fighting out of character? He was fighting perfectly in character for that encounter.
And again with the excuses to make a showing not count. It doesn't cut it with me.
We need to vote Champion down from transcendent. He certainly doesn't belong there.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Seriously, it's a bit much. You guys might want to take this elsewhere.Anyway, after reading some of this and browsing the rest:
Champion doesn't get my vote for Trans.
KK gets my vote to stay at Low Herald
Mantis still gets my vote for Low Herald.
I apologize Digi.
Anyway, here's the bottom line. I haven't seen ANYTHING from Champion in terms of power to warrant him being on the transcendent level. At all. Everything else being talked about is moot.
We've seen more impressive showings of power from the characters already in the herald category.
That's two votes for Champion to NOT be in the transcendent level.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And one vote for him to be in the transcendent level.
Originally posted by batdude123
I apologize Digi.Anyway, here's the bottom line. I haven't seen ANYTHING from Champion in terms of power to warrant him being on the transcendent level. At all. Everything else being talked about is moot.
We've seen more impressive showings of power from the characters already in the herald category.
That's two votes for Champion to NOT be in the transcendent level.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And one vote for him to be in the transcendent level.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I haven't seen anything from the Watcher to suggest that he's more powerful than the guys on the transcendent level, but that doesn't mean that he should be placed there. If you want to remove the Elders from the list as a group and omit guys like Champion from the list due to a lack of concrete appearances that's fine, but bumping him down because he's only had one strait up fight just seems wrong.
The Watcher has nothing to do with this.
The fact of the matter is that Champion has never demonstrated power output to warrant a transcendent level status. It's even more wrong to keep him there and to justify it with nothing that puts him over the heralds. We've seen enough from him to know that he's just not at that level.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Seriously, it's a bit much. You guys might want to take this elsewhere.Anyway, after reading some of this and browsing the rest:
Champion doesn't get my vote for Trans.
KK gets my vote to stay at Low Herald
Mantis still gets my vote for Low Herald.
Champion is Hulk lvl.
KK is Mid Herald LVL.
Manits ( Of the New Gods?) is High herald lvl. He's shown enough power to pretty much go toe to toe with anyone under thanos lvl.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Champion is Hulk lvl.KK is Mid Herald LVL.
Manits ( Of the New Gods?) is High herald lvl. He's shown enough power to pretty much go toe to toe with anyone under thanos lvl.
Mantis is a Marvel character.
And there was talk of KK to High Meta instead of Low Herald...I doubt you'd get him any higher than Low Herald (and he wouldn't have my vote for that).
Champ's showings are crazy...but I tend to agree with you about him.
