KMC Comic Book Tiers · Comic Books

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
Why does KK have a record of one shotting PC Daximites?

No, but then again, I've never seen them cut by a razor blade either.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Honestly not sure because I haven't gotten around to researching Gardener yet. But Surfer had encountered him when he said this...

People say shit like that all the time. Doesn't mean it's true. Neither Champion nor Gardner are as powerful as Norrin.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by batdude123
No, but then again, I've never seen them cut by a razor blade either.

PC Daxamite's were supposed to be the equal of a PC Kryptonian right? Well I seem to remember(though it's entirely possible that I'm mistaken) something about PC Supes getting knocked around by some gorillas.

Originally posted by batdude123
People say shit like that all the time. Doesn't mean it's true. Neither Champion nor Gardner are as powerful as Norrin.

Hey I'm a huge Surfer fan, but a non jobbing Champion DOES have a higher power output...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4770/vsheroesig6.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4811/vsheroes2lo5.jpg

But again, I can't really speak on the Gardener until I look into him.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
PC Daxamite's were supposed to be the equal of a PC Kryptonian right? Well I seem to remember(though it's entirely possible that I'm mistaken) something about PC Supes getting knocked around by some gorillas.

No.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I'm a huge Surfer fan, but a non jobbing Champion DOES have a higher power output...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4770/vsheroesig6.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4811/vsheroes2lo5.jpg
But again, I can't really speak on the Gardener until I look into him.

And that alone puts him above Surfer? I'm sorry, but no.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by batdude123
No.

No the Daxamite's aren't the equal of PC Supes, or no Supes never had a hard time with Gorillas?

Originally posted by batdude123
And that alone puts him above Surfer? I'm sorry, but no.

Alone it wouldn't put him over the Surfer. But it plus Surfer's admission, plus reforming after being eaten by Galactus...

...certainly suggest it. After all, that's more evidence than the majority of the populations of Daxam and Krypton have going for them, and the whole of both races are listed as Transendant.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
No the Daxamite's aren't the equal of PC Supes, or no Supes never had a hard time with Gorillas?

He never had trouble with gorillas.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Alone it wouldn't put him over the Surfer. But it plus Surfer's admission, plus reforming after being eaten by Galactus...

...certainly suggest it.

Yeah, the Elders are immortal... and? 😬 I'm sorry goob, but I've seen Champion lose too many times and to too many people (including Norrin himself) to consider him a transcendent level character.

I've seen Superman save the Omniverse:

http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adventuresofsuperman617kq4.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adventuresofsuperman617fi2.jpg

Yet we don't have him at transcendent level (or higher).

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by batdude123
He never had trouble with gorillas.

Are you sure? I'll do some checking but I'm pretty sure I heard something about that, and Gorilla's were a big craze during the Silver Age. Even if I can't find it, I'm sure that PC Supes has plenty of low showings that are as rediculous as Thor being cut with a razor.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, the Elders are immortal... and? 😬 I'm sorry goob, but I've seen Champion lose too many times and to too many people (including Norrin himself) to consider him a transcendent level character.
I've seen Superman save the Omniverse:
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adventuresofsuperman617kq4.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adventuresofsuperman617fi2.jpg
Yet we don't have him at transcendent level (or higher).

And that immortality is a big part of their ranking. You have to consider that you're talking about someone who's physically stronger than the likes of the Hulk, has enough power output to throw off Thor, Hulk, Sasquatch, Wonderman, Namor, Colossus, Doc Sampson, and Thing with ease, and is for all intents and purposes unkillable by anyone shy of Mistress Death or the Inbetweener. In my mind that seems like qualification enough to rank as Transcendent.

And again, there's more evidence to support it than there is for the nameless masses of Silver Age Kryptonians and Daxamites(most of the billions of which we've never even seen). For most of them, all we have are the statements that they're the equal of PC Supes. Very few of them have anything in the way of actual feats.

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you sure? I'll do some checking but I'm pretty sure I heard something about that, and Gorilla's were a big craze during the Silver Age. Even if I can't find it, I'm sure that PC Supes has plenty of low showings.

None of which are as embarrassing as getting cut by a razor blade.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And that immortality is a big part of their ranking. You have to consider that you're talking about someone who's physically stronger than the likes of the Hulk, has enough power output to throw off Thor, Hulk, Sasquatch, Wonderman, Namor, Colossus, Doc Sampson, and Thing with ease, and is for all intents and purposes unkillable by anyone shy of Mistress Death or the Inbetweener. In my mind that seems like qualification enough to rank as Transcendent.
And again, there's more evidence to support it than there is for the nameless masses of Silver Age Kryptonians and Daxamites(most of the billions of which we've never even seen). For most of them, all we have are the statements that they're the equal of PC Supes.

Him demonstrating an omni-directional blast to get guys off of him doesn't convince me he's at transcendent level at all. He gets owned way too often to be up there.

And by Pre-Crisis Kryptonians/Daxamites, we don't literally mean everyone of them (obviously) considering Krypton blew up.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by batdude123
None of which are as embarrassing as getting cut by a razor blade.

Isn't slashing/piercing damage a little different than h2h damage anyway? I mean I'm pretty sure that WW has taken plenty of damage from things like swords and bullets, but that doesn't mean that she can't take a punch, and Thor's the same way. Mantis didn't stab him, she one shotted him h2h.

Originally posted by batdude123
Him demonstrating an omni-directional blast to get guys off of him doesn't convince me he's at transcendent level at all. He gets owned way too often to be up there.
And by Pre-Crisis Kryptonians/Daxamites, we don't literally mean everyone of them (obviously) considering Krypton blew up.

You mean that his being able to overpower the likes of Thor, Hulk, Sasquatch, Wonderman, Namor, Colossus, Doc Sampson, and Thing with ease doesn't show a higher power output than a herald level? I mean of course he loses, he's always the damn villain and he's never around for more than an issue or two.

So if I were to create a "PC Daximite vs WW Hulk" thread you wouldn't automatically give the Daxamite the win based off of PC Supes accomplishments?

Blair Wind The Iron Avenger

Originally posted by darthgoober
So if I were to create a "PC Daximite vs WW Hulk" thread you wouldn't automatically give the Daxamite the win based off of PC Supes accomplishments?

Nope. I would base them off Mon El's 😖hifty:

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
Isn't slashing/piercing damage a little different than h2h damage anyway? I mean I'm pretty sure that WW has taken plenty of damage from things like swords and bullets, but that doesn't mean that she can't take a punch, and Thor's the same way. Mantis didn't stab him, she one shotted him h2h.

Thor's durability (in all aspects) has been suspect his entire history.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You mean that his being able to overpower the likes of Thor, Hulk, Sasquatch, Wonderman, Namor, Colossus, Doc Sampson, and Thing with ease doesn't show a higher power output than a herald level? I mean of course he loses, he's always the damn villain and he's never around for more than an issue or two.

Getting them off of him doesn't equate to him having a greater power output. You're really reaching here with that feat.

Should I say that Magneto is transcendent level because of this?

http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=defenders01508nb1.jpg

And the "he always loses because he's the villain" argument doesn't cut it with me.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So if I were to create a "PC Daximite vs WW Hulk" thread you wouldn't automatically give the Daxamite the win based off of PC Supes accomplishments?

What are you going on about?

We're talking about Kryptonians and Daxamites that we've actually seen on panel (Superman, Supergirl, Mon-El, etc.).

TricksterPriest Renegade Timelord

If Mon-el lost to the likes of She-Hulk, I'd be calling PIS. Champion got schooled by several people, some of whom like Thanos don't hurt that much, but losing to She-hulk? That was just plain bad. 👇

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by batdude123
Thor's durability (in all aspects) has been suspect his entire history.

Really, what low showing does Thor have as far as h2h damage goes?

Besides, I don't know why we're talking about Thor anyway. This is about Mantis and KK. Why is it that you feel that if Mantis gets bumped up, that KK HAS to be bumped up too? Mantis has a lot of things going for her BEYOND martial arts that KK lacks.

Originally posted by batdude123
Getting them off of him doesn't equate to him having a greater power output. You're really reaching here with this feat.
And the "he always loses because he's the villain" argument doesn't cut it with me.

Let's see they were ALL trying to hold on to him, and he blasted them all off effortlessly. In my mind that shows a higher output(otherwise they'd still be holding on).

Really? Then can you explain why Spiderman beat Firelord, or Surfer beat the Uni Lord, or Supes beating Dominus other than their being the villains in the story then?

Originally posted by batdude123
What are you going on about?
We're talking about Kryptonians and Daxamites that we've actually seen on panel (Superman, Supergirl, Mon-El, etc.).

One of the main things I ever hear about DS from the Great Darkness saga is that he enslaved billions of PC Supes level beings. Besides, if I were to pick some random PC Kryptonian or Daxamite that appeared in one issue and didn't do much and make a thread, wouldn't you still give them the win?

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If Mon-el lost to the likes of She-Hulk, I'd be calling PIS. Champion got schooled by several people, some of whom like Thanos don't hurt that much, but losing to She-hulk? That was just plain bad. 👇

That was right around the time that She Hulk was getting a BIG upgrade and Marvel was really playing her up for her fans. Unless I'm mistaken, she either beat or stalemated Hercules arm wrestling and was offered a job by the Living Tribunal right around that time period.

Airwalker Blackout

Originally posted by llagrok
No.

Why would current Juggernaut be in the same tier as depowered Juggernaut?

batdude123 Fellow Tu Quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
Really, what low showing does Thor have as far as h2h damage goes?
Besides, I don't know why we're talking about Thor anyway. This is about Mantis and KK. Why is it that you feel that if Mantis gets bumped up, that KK HAS to be bumped up too? Mantis has a lot of things going for her BEYOND martial arts that KK lacks.

Because of Karate Kid's feats. 'Nuff said.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Let's see they were ALL trying to hold on to him, and he blasted them all off effortlessly. In my mind that shows a higher output(otherwise they'd still be holding on).

Superman easily soloed the JLA, he's saved the Omniverse, and he's owned Darkseid.

Kyle has created Daxamite constructs with access to the speedforce and he also recreated an extremely complex technological base that spanned hundreds of planets keeping them in check.

Thor has cracked the armor of a Celestial.

Surfer created a black hole.

All of which are certainly more impressive than knocking some foes off of you with a blast.

Champion is NOT transcendent level. That's almost laughable.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Really? Then can you explain why Spiderman beat Firelord, or Surfer beat the Uni Lord, or Supes beating Dominus other than their being the villains in the story then?

If Champion was chumped (pun intended) by people less powerful than transcendent level ONCE, then I'd say you have a case.

Originally posted by darthgoober
One of the main things I ever hear about DS from the Great Darkness saga is that he enslaved billions of PC Supes level beings. Besides, if I were to pick some random PC Kryptonian or Daxamite that appeared in one issue and didn't do much and make a thread, wouldn't you still give them the win?

Don't let Trickster fool you with that. When he did it, they were under a red sun at the time. Which meant they were = to humans. Still impressive, but completely different from controlling 3 billion Supermen.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Originally posted by batdude123
Don't let Trickster fool you with that. When he did it, they were under a red sun at the time. Which meant they were = to humans. Still impressive, but completely different from controlling 3 billion Supermen.

But after that he moved the planet under a yellow sun and maintained his hold on them until the legion forced him to split his attention.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by batdude123
Because of Karate Kid's feats. 'Nuff said.

But why compare them to Mantis's when they're completely different characters. If you want him bumped up based on his feats that's one thing(go ahead and make your case), but bumping him just because Mantis gets bumped is bullshit because as I said she has a lot of things going for her that he lacks. That's like saying that just because Yuga Khan can solo the New Gods, Galactus MUST be able to also even though they have completely different resources at their disposal.

Originally posted by batdude123
Superman easily soloed the JLA, he's saved the Omniverse, and he's owned Darkseid.

Wouldn't that mean that the people he's beaten should be taken down a tier rather than him being bumped up by your reasoning? Especially DS, after all he's lost to Supes several times now so by your reasoning he should be on the Transcendent tier.

Originally posted by batdude123
Kyle has created Daxamite constructs and he also recreated an extremely complex technological base that spanned [b]hundreds of planets keeping them in check. [/B]

What feats do the Daxamite's he created have 😖hifty: ...

Originally posted by batdude123
Thor has cracked the armor of a Celestial.

The same Thor that got blown off with the rest, and was then beaten on by Champion later you mean?

Originally posted by batdude123
Surfer created a black hole.

So maybe he should be taken up a tier 😖hifty: ...

Originally posted by batdude123
If Champion was chumped (pun intended) by people less powerful than transcendent level ONCE, then I'd say you have a case.

How many strait up fights with Herald level guys do you think Champion's been in on panel? I can think of...one(his fight with Surfer). The rest were all things like Boxing matches where he didn't really let loose. And what's more in the Surfer fight Champion was fighting out of character, so it's kinda iffy as to whether or not that's even valid.

Originally posted by batdude123
Don't let Trickster fool you with that. When he did it, they were under a red sun at the time. Which meant they were = to humans. Still impressive, but completely different from controlling 3 billion Supermen.

I know, I pointed that out myself not to long ago 😄 .

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But after that he moved the planet under a yellow sun and maintained his hold on them until the legion forced him to split his attention.

Which sounds harder to you, taking over the mind of someone with Supes level resistance, or taking over the mind of a random person and holding on to it after you've rewritten the make up of their mind so that they absolutely worship you and removed the inclination to resist, and powered them up?

Blair Wind The Iron Avenger

Originally posted by darthgoober
What feats do the Daxamite's he created have 😖hifty: ...

I know you dont care much, but I have the scans anyways:
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternpowergirlcircleoff.jpg
http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternpowergirlcircleoff.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternpowergirlcircleoff1.jpg
http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenlanternpowergirlcircleoff2.jpg

His tactics leave much to be desired, but then again in his mind he was from medieval earth where direct "knightly" fighting was prominent.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which sounds harder to you, taking over the mind of someone with Supes level resistance, or taking over the mind of a random person and holding on to it after you've rewritten the make up of their mind so that they absolutely worship you and removed the inclination to resist, and powered them up?

Perhaps my information is inaccurate but didn't the Daxamites under his control revert to form once he was splitting his concentration too much? If that's the case it would mean he never reprogrammed them but had to maintain constant control and contact.