Originally posted by Newjak
I know I said I would drop the Supes thing but I just wanted to say some things.I can understand Superman being in the Elite tier if we are considering rank(He is DC Flagship) as well but I have a hard time believing that without that consideration he should be on the same list as Silver Surfer or GLs(Hal or Kyle) in power.
Now I know that Superman is never destined to loose to anyone under the blue sky but being unable to loose is different from power level. I think throughout the years we have seen enough from the top GLs to understand they are a league above Superman in actual power.
I think power for power Gladiator and Superman are interchangeable in power levels with each getting slight nods in different categories. I think Glads is stronger and faster than Supes while Supes is more durable and has better energy attacks.
I think Beta Ray Bill in power is actually a hair above superman. I mean without his PIS no death power Superman has never been that impressive to me on an individual basis. All his good feats come at the very end of a fight when he has been overpowered he simply manages to use one of his powers to net a win somehow or a writer has to write something else like T-VO out of the blue.
To me I think without story plot and popularity being key factors we've seen enough of other characters to understand a Top GL can do everything Superman did and more in the same scenario.
MM should do just as well or Wonder Woman should do almost as well. Captain Marvel can do just well as Superman.
So as long as we're taking rank into account then yes Superman is an elite but don't try to convince me that he isn't without it.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I understand that Superman probably reaches the cusp of the Elite even without rank but with Glads and Beta ray Bill down a tier I don't see how he would be above those guys.
What the hell are you talking about? Recently Superman has been portrayed as the consistent most powerful hero in DC. Barr none.
He beats guys other heroes can't, he beats his peers in direct showings (which ALWAYS hold more worth in terms of feats imo), and he beats teams of heroes away like nothing.
While other teams of heroes get their shit kicked against a villain, Superman comes in a bitch slaps him away. We can't ignore these simply because we may not like them.
Gladiator doesn't compare to him... at least not anymore. While Gladiator is getting embarrassed by Hulk and Cannonball, Superman is showing up his fellow heroes in combat. 😂
Case closed. Any more attempts at trying to deface Superman into being a tier below where he ought to be will be ignored.
Transcendent (Sub-Skyfather):
Amazo, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mogo(?), Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Stayne, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Herald
High:
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Doomsday, Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), The Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Thor, The Void
Middle
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Cyborg Superman, Damien Hellstrom, The Eradicator, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Ikaris, Kid Omega, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sinestro, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Swamp Thing, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman
Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, The Atom, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Darkness, Darwin, Death Metal, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Living Monolith, Lobo, Loki, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Sersi, Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Union, Vulcan, Winter
Metahuman: (Mid-tier "Iron Man" level)
High:
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Donna Troy, Doom, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nimrod, Northstar, Osiris, Pitt, Plastic-Man, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Sand, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Ultron, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
Middle
Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Box, Carnage, Cloak, Crystal, Cyborg, Cyclops, Death's Head II, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Ghost Rider, Grace Choi, Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Jenny Sparks, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, M.O.D.O.K., Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nico Minoru, Ogun, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Radioactive Man, Rogue, Shadowcat, Shift, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Toxin, Vance Astro, Wonder Girl
Low
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Dagger, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Rom, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Warpath, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar
Street Level:
High
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Crossbones, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, Union Jack, X-23
Middle
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat
Low
Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Robin, Talia, White Tiger
Originally posted by batdude123
What the hell are you talking about? Recently Superman has been portrayed as the consistent most powerful hero in DC. Barr none.He beats guys other heroes can't, he beats his peers in direct showings (which ALWAYS hold more worth in terms of feats imo), and he beats teams of heroes away like nothing.
While other teams of heroes get their shit kicked against a villain, Superman comes in a b[B]i
tch slaps him away. We can't ignore these simply because we may not like them.Gladiator doesn't compare to him... at least not anymore. While Gladiator is getting embarrassed by Hulk and Cannonball, Superman is showing up his fellow heroes in combat. 😂
Case closed. Any more attempts at trying to deface Superman into being a tier below where he ought to be will be ignored. [/B]
Originally posted by Soljer
If we're tiering heros, it has to (At least partially) be about who can beat who.I mean, so long as it isn't a plot-device type thing- right? Batman may be able to take down someone like Wolverine with a sonic device, for example, but Wolverine's still more powerful.
thunder clap>> sonic device.
I do see your point though
Originally posted by Validus
I bet you just had to point that out didn't you?
Seriously, for christ sake, it was a ****ing example.
Oh, god forbid anyone act like Wolverine can be taken out by anyone less powerful than the Silver Surfer. Jesus H. Christ.
Btu he ahs teh shwsozinsgs!
....
Mother ****, I get annoyed sometimes.