Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Well with the exception of Millars last arc, the Doctor is hardly what i would call Cosmic level. He did nothing that your average G.L couldn't accomplish.
High-level matter manip with a thought, time traveling or stopping time on a whim, dimensional travel, freezing Mr. Majestic while drinking a soda and casually talking with Hawksmoor. Show me a GL that can own Superman while watching Saturday morning cartoons in their jammies and I'll concede the point. Not to mention the global-level tk and telepathy he's displayed, and all the random odds and ends that he's capable of. Mind you, all Doctors have the experiences and powers of past Doctors, so feats from any of them are valid for the current.
Jobber? Certainly, though usually for PIS's sake. But a legit Transcendent.
Originally posted by Digi
High-level matter manip with a thought, time traveling or stopping time on a whim, dimensional travel, freezing Mr. Majestic while drinking a soda and casually talking with Hawksmoor. Show me a GL that can own Superman while watching Saturday morning cartoons in their jammies and I'll concede the point. Not to mention the global-level tk and telepathy he's displayed, and all the random odds and ends that he's capable of. Mind you, all Doctors have the experiences and powers of past Doctors, so feats from any of them are valid for the current.Jobber? Certainly, though usually for PIS's sake. But a legit Transcendent.
Global Level T.P. is well within a G.L. power range, as is matter manipulation. Also G.L.'s have the auto protection of their rings something that the Doctor certainly hasn't. Also time travel is well withing the space warping capabilities of a G.L. they are just forbidden from doing so.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Global Level T.P. is well within a G.L. power range, as is matter manipulation. Also G.L.'s have the auto protection of their rings something that the Doctor certainly hasn't. Also time travel is well withing the space warping capabilities of a G.L. they are just forbidden from doing so.
Granted. No one's saying Gl's don't have powerful feats. But when you add up everything I listed, then combine it with the ease with which the Doctor's able to accomplish all that, it equals Transcendent. Especially when he's capable of feats like the Majestic thing that no GL could touch, under any circumstances. He could've just as easily turned Majestic into roses, for example, so he's clearly a step above High Herald. A well-written, peak GL is the class of High Herald and pushing Transcendent anyway, so I'm not trying to insult GL's, just say that the Doctor's a step above, which he is.
Btw, if the effortless time travel, time stoppage, matter manip, global tp and tk aren't enough, he also has global-level technopathy feats (reprogramming an entire invading fleet), has gotten the better of Jenny Quantum (who's partially overrated but possesses similarly high-end feats), and created a low herald from scratch (he recreated Winter's body for him). When a dude can conceivably generate heralds for himself that are low herald, he's more than High Herald.
Originally posted by Digi
Also, the auto-shields comment is valid, but only pertains to forum battles. Speedblitzes can occasionally be used against him as a viable offensive option, but this list is about total power in all its forms, which he undoubtedly possesses more of.
Playing Devils Advocate here, but it really depends on what you mean by power ?
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The Thing above Blue Devil, Death's head, Toxin, Wonder Girl, etc?
Thing's been brought up before, though I don't think he was voted on. I'd tend to agree, but won't vote just yet. I'd like to see discussion and voes on it though.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Playing Devils Advocate here, but it really depends on what you mean by power ?
True enough. But a speedblitz weakness isn't exclusive to The Doctor. And when a thought is all it takes to negate that weakness, I tend not to see it as much of one. Anyone outside of Flashes in forum battles have to deal with his full power (and possibly a few select others, though that would be up for debate). And when it's effectively not a weakness against such an overwhelming majority of characters, it becomes a discussion of moving him down based on a single matchup, which is obviously a bit silly.
But I think we're essentially in agreement. I don't mind defending him, since that kind of discussion is what this thread is about.
Yeah. Though to be fair, The Doctor had already amped himself, as evidenced by the fight up until that point. For example, he had already roundhouse kicked MNer about a mile away. So it wasn't a speedblitz in the truest sense of the word, with The Doctor powerless.
Though the regeneration of his face (undoubtedly with some parts of his brain damaged, as clearly evidenced by the scans) is definitely his best regen feat. Because all other evidence suggests that destruction of his brain should equal him not having powers anymore.
Originally posted by Digi
Yeah. Though to be fair, The Doctor had already amped himself, as evidenced by the fight up until that point. For example, he had already roundhouse kicked MNer about a mile away. So it wasn't a speedblitz in the truest sense of the word, with The Doctor powerless.Though the regeneration of his face (undoubtedly with some parts of his brain damaged, as clearly evidenced by the scans) is definitely his best regen feat. Because all other evidence suggests that destruction of his brain should equal him not having powers anymore.
I always thought it would be odd if "reality warpers" couldn't grant themselves additional powers.
Doctor's actually not a reality warper. At least not in practice. In theory, the power of "whatever you think becomes reality" sounds like reality warping. But in practice it's always some variation of matter manipulation, or time manip, tk, tp, technopathy, etc. etc.
He's had trouble, for example, "fixing" matter manipulation on a subatomic level that someone else did as an attack on the Authority. A reality warper would have no such problems. A few other instances support this idea as well.
But he has indeed given himself other powers via these abilities: such as strength, durability, he's grown to the size of a building, used a form of laser vision, and probably others I'm forgetting.
Originally posted by Digi
Doctor's actually not a reality warper. At least not in practice. In theory, the power of "whatever you think becomes reality" sounds like reality warping. But in practice it's always some variation of matter manipulation, or time manip, tk, tp, technopathy, etc. etc.He's had trouble, for example, "fixing" matter manipulation on a subatomic level that someone else did as an attack on the Authority. A reality warper would have no such problems. A few other instances support this idea as well.
But he has indeed given himself other powers via these abilities: such as strength, durability, he's grown to the size of a building, used a form of laser vision, and probably others I'm forgetting.
Yeah, you get the jist of it.