Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Besides, the proof of God's existence is all around you. You must ask God to reveal Himself to you (in Jesus Name of course because you can only come to the Father through Jesus). Once you do this it will be as if scales have fallen from your eyes. You will see evidence for God's existence in everything that the Scriptures state that God created.
If it is proof of a god's existence, then why do you have faith? Belief on the basis of evidence is not faith.
Concerning your black holes statement, black holes are not just nothing. How would nothing be able to generate such an intense gravity field? If not a singularity, then at least perhaps a huge amount of mass compressed to an astronomical density.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveAnd a fish says what??? 😕
This universe is such an involved/complicated system that it is not plausible for it to be an eternal, independent, self-made construct. Moreover, the universe is an impersonal entity whereas God--based on the Scriptures--is the all-intelligent/knowing, all-present, all-powerful Creator. There is no comparison between the two. It is believable that the Creator of a thing must precede the thing created. But, God needs no one to come to His defense; however, I would like to say that the there must be a point where all things start and finish. That point is God. I have no problem avowing this fact.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveHowever if all the greatest minds in the world can’t agree on how the universe was created and is still researched to this day but for you have the answer to all that is? Just because we do not have the capacity to understand fully how the universe came to be right here and now you simply say that God must have done it. The universe is complex and mystical to those that don’t understand it; this is the same with anything. You put a computer back in the middle ages and they wouldn’t have a clue how it work much less how to create one. As our knowledge increases so does the universe and its mysteries disappear in the light of knowledge.
"Vacuum energy and zero point energy are the lowest possible amounts of energy that can exist within a space. [b]So technically, yes, they are something."This is all I was trying to get Shak to concede. Now, I believe that the universe and everything it contains was created from nothing (I believe that the Scriptures support this). What I do not concur with is how the universe originated. This is the point of controversy, contention, and dispute. [/B]
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothingness does not have space or time. There is no "originate".
But...you stated,
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A true vacuum or nothingness would not have energy. It would be a lower state then the zero point state, and therefore be infinitely unstable. Therefore, nothingness will always erupt into something.
How can nothingness be unstable much less erupt into something if nothingness does not have space or time? Besides, there really is no such animal as space or time because space and time are reckoned together (i.e. space-time). In addition, instability is the product of energy; hence, there is energy and energy is something.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
If it is proof of a god's existence, then why do you have faith? Belief on the basis of evidence is not faith.Concerning your black holes statement, black holes are not just nothing. How would nothing be able to generate such an intense gravity field? If not a singularity, then at least perhaps a huge amount of mass compressed to an astronomical density.
Faith is necessary for what I cannot see. I cannot see God, but I can see evidence for His existence.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But...where did the vacuum originate from or what caused it?
No one knows for sure-yet - but there is no need to cop out to supernatural explanations with zero explanatory power and resign to ignorance by saying simply that "god did it" or "its magic".
It could be that this "vacuum" or state of nothingness IS the First Cause. Compared to the Christian God, it makes LESS baseless assumptions, not to mention this state of nothingness and similar like it have been observed, experimented upon - generally known to exist - which makes it more credible and probable.
Hell, the Christian god's very existence itself is in doubt which is why youre pathetically using the circular argument of First Cause to prove its existence. Prove first by credible outside means that your god exist (credible, as in NOT through blind faith) before attaching baseless assumptions like so and so is the First cause and is the Creator of the Universe.