Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. You will have to look up zero point energy.
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are synonymous. Notwithstanding, both are still "something." Just because the universe (i.e. space) is presumably and for discussion sake devoid of matter, that does not mean that there is nothingness. Besides, "space" is a something...where did it originate?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A true vacuum or nothingness would not have energy. It would be a lower state then the zero point state, and therefore be infinitely unstable. Therefore, nothingness will always erupt into something.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No. You will have to look up zero point energy.
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are synonymous. Notwithstanding, both are still "something." Just because the universe (i.e. space) is presumably and for discussion sake devoid of matter--which is equivalent with energy--that does not mean that there is nothingness. Besides, "space" is a something...how did it originate?
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are the lowest possible amounts of energy that can exist within a space. So technically, yes, they are something.
Space can be said to be nothingness, but is still something in itself. The argument of whether or not nothing(ness) exists is more of a philosophical argument, rather than a religious one.
However this is how I see it:
-Nothing and nothingness can derive from something. So it should be logical that something can derive from nothing.
-Look at all mythologies and religious creation stories: The world and/or the universe is always born of chaos (the darkness). Chaos forms into order, nothingness forms into something.
-Many mathematicians are fascinated by the circle, since it is the only shape which derives from a single point. While the square has 4, and the triangle has 3, the circle's only true point is that at its center. No point need be added or taken away to keep the circle as it is..a circle.
Now...let me not go off topic....I find it interesting that many people who beleive in creationism do not accept the idea that either:
-The Universe always existed
or
-The Universe was born of nothing
However, these same people are quick to defend thier God as having always existed, and without a beginning. To me, that's a bit hypocritical. If a single being can always have existed, then so can a universe.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are the lowest possible amounts of energy that can exist within a space. So technically, yes, they are something.Space can be said to be nothingness, but is still something in itself. The argument of whether or not nothing(ness) exists is more of a philosophical argument, rather than a religious one.
However this is how I see it:
-Nothing and nothingness can derive from something. So it should be logical that something can derive from nothing.
-Look at all mythologies and religious creation stories: The world and/or the universe is always born of chaos (the darkness). Chaos forms into order, nothingness forms into something.
-Many mathematicians are fascinated by the circle, since it is the only shape which derives from a single point. While the square has 4, and the triangle has 3, the circle's only true point is that at its center. No point need be added or taken away to keep the circle as it is..a circle.
Now...let me not go off topic....I find it interesting that many people who beleive in creationism do not accept the idea that either:
-The Universe always existed
or
-The Universe was born of nothing
However, these same people are quick to defend thier God as having always existed, and without a beginning. To me, that's a bit hypocritical. If a single being can always have existed, then so can a universe.
"Vacuum energy and zero point energy are the lowest possible amounts of energy that can exist within a space. So technically, yes, they are something."
This is all I was trying to get Shak to concede. Now, I believe that the universe and everything it contains was created from nothing (I believe that the Scriptures support this). What I do not concur with is how the universe originated. This is the point of controversy, contention, and dispute.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are the lowest possible amounts of energy that can exist within a space. So technically, yes, they are something.Space can be said to be nothingness, but is still something in itself. The argument of whether or not nothing(ness) exists is more of a philosophical argument, rather than a religious one.
However this is how I see it:
-Nothing and nothingness can derive from something. So it should be logical that something can derive from nothing.
-Look at all mythologies and religious creation stories: The world and/or the universe is always born of chaos (the darkness). Chaos forms into order, nothingness forms into something.
-Many mathematicians are fascinated by the circle, since it is the only shape which derives from a single point. While the square has 4, and the triangle has 3, the circle's only true point is that at its center. No point need be added or taken away to keep the circle as it is..a circle.
Now...let me not go off topic....I find it interesting that many people who beleive in creationism do not accept the idea that either:
-The Universe always existed
or
-The Universe was born of nothing
However, these same people are quick to defend thier God as having always existed, and without a beginning. To me, that's a bit hypocritical. If a single being can always have existed, then so can a universe.
This universe is such an involved/complicated system that it is not plausible for it to be an eternal, independent, self-made construct. Moreover, the universe is an impersonal entity whereas God--based on the Scriptures--is the all-intelligent/knowing, all-present, all-powerful Creator. There is no comparison between the two. It is believable that the Creator of a thing must precede the thing created. But, God needs no one to come to His defense; however, I would like to say that the there must be a point where all things start and finish. That point is God. I have no problem avowing this fact.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Vacuum energy and zero point energy are synonymous. Notwithstanding, both are still "something." Just because the universe (i.e. space) is presumably and for discussion sake devoid of matter--which is equivalent with energy--that does not mean that there is nothingness. Besides, "space" is a something...[b]how did it originate? [/B]
Nothingness does not have space or time. There is no "originate".
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Nothingness does not have space or time. There is no "originate".
Originally posted by dadudemon
The existence of nothing is still something....therefore nothing is something therefore nothing can be nothing.Even if it means that nothing recognizes it as nothing, nothing is still something.
Nothing fails. 🙂
Also, if nothing existed for an eternity, no one would be around to say that it existed for eternity. If something could instantly appear in that nothingness...but still not break the rules of nothingness, meaning, it has a timeline perpendicular and infinitely small to the reality of nothingness, nothingness wouldn't be interrupted...indeed, an infinite number of perpendicular timelines could exist as far as nothingness's eternal perspective is concerned. In fact, an infinite number of timelines could extend, perpendicular, but parallel to the nothingness timeline. Furthermore and infinite number of timelines could exist on one of the infinite timelines that exists on one of the time lines that exists on the nothingness time line. It could go on to an infinite number of timelines for each time line...sort of like a fractal. Whose to say the dimensional limitations of the time lines? Do they have to be confined to the 1d space I have defined? NO!!! We could compound this nothingness by including the presence of an 11 dimensional set of physics.