Can you handle the Truth?

Started by Da Pittman432 pages

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In this discussion I have repeatedly cited my evidence for God's existence as affirmed by the Bible.

Asking me to prove something implies that I am not right. Can't you see we are both in the same boat?

The only proof that you try to give that God is real that is not in the Bible is to say look around you at the complexity of the universe and that it has to have a divine creator. This is not proof but a lack of knowledge, not just on your part but on all of humanity. Just because we don’t understand the universe doesn’t mean that it was made by some all powerful being and it is only complex to us because we don’t understand it just as a car or plane would be to a caveman. This would be beyond their greatest minds but is common knowledge to us because we have the understanding just as the technology a 1000 years from now will be unheard of now. So what you site as proof is nothing but a lack of knowledge, you have no proof other than conjecture and speculation.

You say that the greatest minds can not figure it out and I would say so what, the greatest minds thought the Earth was flat and the universe revolved around the Earth.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know you really want to be special, and that is what is really behind this idea that there is a difference between you and other Christians. However, this kind of point of view leads to ego driven delusions.

Special? I couldn't care less. I am trying to convey to you that believers in Christ do not believe the same tenets as a Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslim; therefore, they are not the same.

Do you follow me?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
The only proof that you try to give that God is real that is not in the Bible is to say look around you at the complexity of the universe and that it has to have a divine creator. This is not proof but a lack of knowledge, not just on your part but on all of humanity. Just because we don’t understand the universe doesn’t mean that it was made by some all powerful being and it is only complex to us because we don’t understand it just as a car or plane would be to a caveman. This would be beyond their greatest minds but is common knowledge to us because we have the understanding just as the technology a 1000 years from now will be unheard of now. So what you site as proof is nothing but a lack of knowledge, you have no proof other than conjecture and speculation.

You say that the greatest minds can not figure it out and I would say so what, the greatest minds thought the Earth was flat and the universe revolved around the Earth.

How can you be so stubborn? Da Pittman, do me a favor: look at your computer. Now ask yourself: did this complex piece of machinery a) evolve; b) come about as the result of a cataclysmic explosion; c) create itself; or d) arise from the intelligent mind of a designer?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
How can you be so stubborn? Da Pittman, do me a favor: look at your computer. Now ask yourself: did this complex piece of machinery a) evolve; b) come about as the result of a cataclysmic explosion; c) create itself; or d) arise from the intelligent mind of a designer?
How can I be stubborn??? Please do not start this argument again; you are comparing apples and oranges, man made to organic which will fail for the compression. Did you not read anything that I just wrote???

How do you create fire?
How do you create ice?
How do you create atomic fusion?
What is an atom?

Stop answering a question with an f'n question!!!

As for you question, yes the computer that is before me evolved to what it is today. A different version of this model was used to create this model and an older model used to create the one before that and on and on. You are trying to use tools in your example which will fail, tools can only have a designer hence they are tools.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
How can I be stubborn??? Please do not start this argument again; you are comparing apples and oranges, man made to organic which will fail for the compression. Did you not read anything that I just wrote???

How do you create fire?
How do you create ice?
How do you create atomic fusion?
What is an atom?

Stop answering a question with an f'n question!!!

You are absolutely correct, I am comparing apples and the planet Jupiter. The universe is eminently more complicated than your raggety (just kidding) computer and yet you believe that it just came about by chance, random ocurrence.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are absolutely correct, I am comparing apples and the planet Jupiter. The universe is eminently more complicated than your raggety (just kidding) computer and yet you believe that it just came about by chance, random ocurrence.
As I have said over and over it is only complex to someone that doesn't understand it. The human body is more complex to a laymen then to a human doctor that has gone to 8 years of medical school.

Give me a large enough mass and I can create a planet, not that hard.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
As I have said over and over it is only complex to someone that doesn't understand it. The human body is more complex to a laymen then to a human doctor that has gone to 8 years of medical school.

Give me a large enough mass and I can create a planet, not that hard.

That is my point precisely! According to the Scriptures, God creates from nothing (no pre-existent material). Yet here you are asking for material so that you could create a planet.

You still cannot see the magnitude of power and wisdom that would be required to create this universe from something let alone from nothing?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is my point precisely! According to the Scriptures, God creates from [B]nothing (no pre-existent material). Yet here you are asking for material so that you could create a planet.

You still cannot see the magnitude of power and wisdom that would be required to create this universe from something let alone from nothing? [/B]

OK, skip over what I have said. You are trying to use a tool as your example which will fail for the reason that I have stated. It is only complex if you do not understand it.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
As I have said over and over it is only complex to someone that doesn't understand it. The human body is more complex to a laymen then to a human doctor that has gone to 8 years of medical school.

Give me a large enough mass and I can create a planet, not that hard.

No, I believe you are wrong (again). The human body is just as complex to a physician as it is to a non-professional. Just because someone becomes a doctor that does not presuppose that that person loses their appreciation, respect, or awe for the human body's complicated design. I am still amazed at how complex things work regardles of whether I understand how they work or not.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, I believe you are wrong (again). The human body is just as complex to a physician as it is to a non-professional. Just because someone becomes a doctor that does not presuppose that that person loses their appreciation, respect, or awe for the human body's complicated design. I am still amazed at how complex things work regardles of whether I understand how they work or not.
Where did I say anything about not having awe or appreciation for something? Did you not even understand anything that I just wrote?

You are completely wrong, the human body would be more complex to a laymen than a human doctor, just try and have a laymen try and explain how the human brain works and have a brain surgeon do it and see what you get if you don’t believe me. The layman may be able to describe the basic workings but the doctor will explain how and down to the minute detail.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
That is where I disagree, and I think this is the only real problem I have with Christianity, otherwise, I don't mind it as a religion or philosophy.

But...Christianity is not a religion. We are simply a community of people who have passed from death unto life. We are not longer dead in trespasses and sins and on our way to Hell. We have been brought back into righ-standing with God through Jesus Christ. It really is that simple.

If God blatantly showed himself to us through an obvious and clear representation which we all recognized, then we would have no excuse, and thus Hell would almost be a justified punishment for not accepting what is right in front of you.

God has shown you Himself--did you forget that He sent Jesus 2,000 years ago? Besides, you are already without excuse according to the Scriptures. You see the Bible states,

Romans 1:16
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

However, that is not the case. All we have is a book. The Bible, which has been written ages and ages ago, and retranslated and re editted throughout time.

You have all that you need.

"One of the first internal evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word is seen in its unity. Even though it is really sixty-six individual books, written on three continents, in three different languages, over a period of approximately 1500 years, by more that 40 authors (who came from many walks of life), the Bible remains one unified book from beginning to end without contradiction. This unity is unique from all other books and is evidence of the divine origin of the words as God moved men in such a way that they recorded His very words. (Copyright 2002-2008 Got Questions Ministries - All Rights Reserved.
www.gotquestions.org)"

Besides,

[/COLOR]

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[b]God's Word (i.e. the Scriptures) is all that He has given for us to know Him. It is all that is necessary in order to have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

For example, if your parents wrote you a letter then went on a long vacation would you be looking for any other writing from them? That one letter would be all that you needed to know their will, desire, and heart for you right? Well, picture the Bible (all 66 books) as one giant letter from God to His creation (for each and every individual person). [/B]

God has not shown himself to the world. That is why so many doubt his existence, and thus for God to condemn those to Hell for not blindly beleiving in something that cannot be seen, heard, or communicated with, is unreasonable, illogical, and stupid.

Do you believe that your statement is original? Do you believe that you are the only soul on planet earth that has felt this way? Well, you are not. Nevertheless, God has made Himself known to every single person on earth. People do not doubt that God exists, they doubt that God truly cares about them and/or their situation. People know deep down inside that God lives, but they suppress that with reason. They say things like, "If God exist then why____________(fill in the blank)." They say things like, "God could not exist because____________(again, fill in the blank)." The truth is that people know God exists but they don't believe that He cares about them or what is going on in their lives. So...they conclude that God could not exist. Friend (and this is addressed to anyone reading this post right now) if God did not exist there would be no Bible, no Jesus, and definitely no universe or people like me reaching out to you with the message of God's love for you.

Wrong! There are people who indeed doubt and/or outright don't believe that God doesn't exist, they're called Atheist.

Originally posted by Robtard
Wrong! There are people who indeed doubt and/or outright don't believe that God doesn't exist, they're called Atheist.

Again, there is a reason for everything. People are atheists because they don't understand why things in life happen the way that they do. This is why they conclude that there must not be a God.

Well, that would put a stop to your "people do not doubt God exists" rhetoric, now wouldn't it, as there are people who do indeed do not believe God exist, reason is irrelevant.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Again, there is a reason for everything. People are atheists because they don't understand why things in life happen the way that they do. This is why they conclude that there must not be a God.
No I understand perfectly how and why things happen, if I didn't I would believe in the Bible. [/sarcasm]

Next??? 😄

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, that would put a stop to your "people do not doubt God exists" rhetoric, now wouldn't it, as there are people who do indeed do not believe God exist, reason is irrelevant.

But I did not categorically state that people doubt God's existence, did I? I qualified my statement with, "People doubt because...." Not, "People doubt." Once people learn and understand how God and life operates they will have a hard time doubting God's existence "because".

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But I did not categorically state that people doubt God's existence, did I? I qualified my statement with, "People doubt [B]because...." Not, "People doubt." Once people learn and understand how God and life operates they will have a hard time doubting God's existence "because". [/B]
❌ I have no doubt, nothings changed 😄

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But I did not categorically state that people doubt God's existence, did I? I qualified my statement with, "People doubt [B]because...." Not, "People doubt." Once people learn and understand how God and life operates they will have a hard time doubting God's existence "because". [/B]
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
People do not doubt that God exists, they doubt that God truly cares about them and/or their situation. People know deep down inside that God lives, but they suppress that with reason. They say things like, "If God exist then why____________(fill in the blank)." They say things like, "God could not exist because____________(again, fill in the blank)." The truth is that people know God exists but they don't believe that He cares about them or what is going on in their lives. So...they conclude that God could not exist. Friend (and this is addressed to anyone reading this post right now) if God did not exist there would be no Bible, no Jesus, and definitely no universe or people like me reaching out to you with the message of God's love for you.[/COLOR]

People (aka Atheist) do doubt God exist, reason is irrelevant.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Special? I couldn't care less. I am trying to convey to you that believers in Christ do not believe the same tenets as a Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslim; therefore, they are not the same.

Do you follow me?

Does "not the same" mean inferior?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
No I understand perfectly how and why things happen, if I didn't I would believe in the Bible. [/sarcasm]

Next??? 😄

You understand perfectly how and why things happen? Okay.

Why did the universe come into existence--oh, and how did the universe come into existence?