Can you handle the Truth?

Started by SpearofDestiny432 pages
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
People send themselves to Hell for rejecting God's love.

That is where I disagree, and I think this is the only real problem I have with Christianity, otherwise, I don't mind it as a religion or philosophy.

If God blatantly showed himself to us through an obvious and clear representation which we all recognized, then we would have no excuse, and thus Hell would almost be a justified punishment for not accepting what is right in front of you.

However, that is not the case. All we have is a book. The Bible, which has been written ages and ages ago, and retranslated and re editted throughout time.

God has not shown himself to the world. That is why so many doubt his existence, and thus for God to condemn those to Hell for not blindly beleiving in something that cannot be seen, heard, or communicated with, is unreasonable, illogical, and stupid.

What do you want, some big hand in your face going "here I am" all the time? According to the Bible, God has shown himself to the world and it was up to the witnesses and believers to spread that news. The Bible is the documentation of that. Some people would interpret statues crying blood as a sign, yet people are so different that they interpret that in different ways (hoax, miracle, even Satan at work, etc.) If I told you about a "sign" in my life, you would probably say it wasn't obvious enough.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
That is where I disagree, and I think this is the only real problem I have with Christianity, otherwise, I don't mind it as a religion or philosophy.

If God blatantly showed himself to us through an obvious and clear representation which we all recognized, then we would have no excuse, and thus Hell would almost be a justified punishment for not accepting what is right in front of you.

However, that is not the case. All we have is a book. The Bible, which has been written ages and ages ago, and retranslated and re editted throughout time.

God has not shown himself to the world. That is why so many doubt his existence, and thus for God to condemn those to Hell for not blindly beleiving in something that cannot be seen, heard, or communicated with, is unreasonable, illogical, and stupid.

I tend to agree with all of that.

Since I am Mormon, I believe that everyone will get a fair chance to accept God and His plan, if He exists. That also means that if you "heard" the gospel on Earth but due to certain circumstances, you would inexorably reject it, you will still be given a chance to hear it in the next life when you know for a fact that God exists(or his plan exists( and what his plan is. In other words, you will get a chance to make a 100% full fledged decision on whether or not you accept the gospel. I am told that in the next life, only those who are truly evil would reject the gospel. I can't think of anyone other than truly evil people who would reject the gospel when there is no denying its truthfulness.

This is one reason I went with Mormonism because I have a hard time believing that everyone gets an equal change "hearing the gospel". Everyone is different and it would be unfair to hold everyone to the same meter stick of judgment. This is why you need a good who "knows all"...or something.

Also, this is one reason I don't(or try not to) judge others. How the HELL can I determine who should be doing and not doing what? How can I determine that someone knowingly rejected the gospel? (When they knew it to be truth.) This is one reason, I believe, that we are to "judge not, that ye be not judged".

Of course, I have to pass some sort of judgment on people to protect me and mine. I probably will not not allow a convicted pedophile to babysit my children. Am I sinning? Maybe...maybe not. I tend to think that it may be a sin to NOT protect my loved ones when I know better....I will be judged by the same judgment that I mete so it makes sense that I would not be sinning. Whereas, someone else may think...deep down inside...that they are supposed to give these type of people a second chance and not judge their past mistakes. They will be judged by their mete of judgment. There are numerous examples that could fall under this same exact logic and this is why I try not to judge and if i do, I make sure it is judging for the right reasons.

Here is another example that I think is applicable.

What if someone thinks, in the most sincere honest of places in their heart, that being homosexual is perfectly okay because God made them that way. IMO AND by the judgment verse I quoted, they would not be sinning because they really don't think they are sinning and they wouldn't judge another as doing such in the same circumstance. This is why I think it is uberly wrong to judge homosexuals as being "evil" and "horrendous sinners". Those people exacting those judgments are digging their own hell, imo.

This is just my perspective/s, and I am NOT trying to "preach my gospel". Just thought I would throw my opinion out there.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I say he must prove it because this is what he does all the time, you ask a question he says you must prove it first. It is his fun little way of dogging questions as he keeps doing to mine and everyone else. It gets really annoying so I decided to have some fun and play his dumb inconsiderate game. 😄

Makes sense. Unfortunately it's the game a lot of people play around here. I'm sure he didn't make it up.

Originally posted by queeq
Makes sense. Unfortunately it's the game a lot of people play around here. I'm sure he didn't make it up.
Though I would have to say he is the worst at it, at least from what I've been exposed to. 😉

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Though I would have to say he is the worst at it, at least from what I've been exposed to. 😉

😆 Or is he the best at it?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I asked Him to be the Lord of my life and I read His Book the Bible.
Other resources please. Besides the feeling you get as others get feelings also.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Holding God in high reverence through your words and actions. Showing your high regard for God through a life of holiness. Honoring God in various ways that show that you love Him, need Him, and live to please Him in all that you do.
Why would god need anything. If god needs then god isn't complete and perfect but takes on the emotions which are faulty in man as god had said in your book. Is god dysfunctional? Is your god needy? Why would a god be needy if it was god? 😕

God needs to feel worthy? God can only get this feeling by sending people to hell for not making it feel good in this way??

Ego stroking?

They aren't saying God is needy. God is love, and therefore, what is so wrong with him loving us and wanting to be close to us? It's not a sin to want someone to love you. You should actually pay attention to what people are trying to say, whether you agree with it or not.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
They aren't saying God is needy. God is love, and therefore, what is so wrong with him loving us and wanting to be close to us? It's not a sin to want someone to love you. You should actually pay attention to what people are trying to say, whether you agree with it or not.

If I love you, but you don't love me back, and I threaten to torture you if you do not return my love, and do exactly what I say, is that okay with you ?

No, but then I didn't die for you, either.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
They aren't saying God is needy. God is love, and therefore, what is so wrong with him loving us and wanting to be close to us? It's not a sin to want someone to love you. You should actually pay attention to what people are trying to say, whether you agree with it or not.
In other words you are defending the neediness if a deity was stating that WE must prove our loyalty to IT. This to me sounds like a inferiority complex. I say this because a god does NOT need approval. It is complete and perfect as what was said.. It is MAN that has this dysfunction. This would lower your God to a mear man in ITS thinking.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. What I was saying is that there is nothing wrong with God wanting love because all love comes from God. If he was truly needy, he would take away our free will, yet everyone has the choice of what to believe. There's really nothing like it, so I hate to use an analogy, but it's sort of the way it is with a parent and child. The parent of course loves the child unconditionally and would be very happy if the child loved him/her back, but the child ultimately has to decide if he/she is going to love the parent and whether or not to continue a relationship. But this is just how I interpret it, which is why these kind of debates never go anywhere. It's all up to interpretation and there is no proof of any kind out there for any side. I can't claim to know everything about God. I just don't see anything really needy about him.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
No, but then I didn't die for you, either.

🙄 You don't get it

If my only incentive for you to love me, is that you will be tortured for all eternity if you don't, then is that the kind of love you want ? Kind of sounds like an abusive obsessive controlling boyfreind to me.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
If he was truly needy, he would take away our free will, yet everyone has the choice of what to believe.

But if you believe the wrong thing, or make the wrong choice, then you burn in hell. Doesn't really sound free to me.

About Will.

IMO.......you say god loves. Maybe IT does. I have my own believe on that. I believe that it is all US. I know you do not understand what this progression is..a life they say evolution...IT has polars. It is like a magnet also.. What you give out is what you get afterwards ...but it is not as simple as that........

Hope that helps.

Some Christians believe if you've lived a good life, you will not go to hell. This is something I struggle with, honestly, and am still determining what I believe in regards to nonChristians who are good people.

And if what you say is completely correct and all non Christians do burn in hell, it still is free because everyone seems to know that and yet many choose to not be Christians. Still sounds like free will to me.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
The difference is in the word you use as compared to what others use. We ask to prove. You ask to disprove, which implies you are right based on some sort of non-existent evidence.

In this discussion I have repeatedly cited my evidence for God's existence as affirmed by the Bible.

Asking me to prove something implies that I am not right. Can't you see we are both in the same boat?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
If I love you, but you don't love me back, and I threaten to torture you if you do not return my love, and do exactly what I say, is that okay with you ?

I think I see where the disconnect is. It is really not a matter of whether you love God or not with regard to "this" discussion. You need to understand humanity's default position as it were relative to God. Because of sin every person is separated from God. In order to undo this condition a person must become born again. God does not torture people for not loving Him. You SpearofDestiny are separated from God because of your sin nature. You could reciprocate God's love all you want and you would still go to Hell because you are separated from God (on account of sin). The issue is sin not the love of God that is the problem. Your sins must be dealt with in order for you to be brought back to God relationally. You must get this: the wages of sin is death. Not, "the wages of not loving God is death." There is a difference.

Do you follow me?

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Other resources please. Besides the feeling you get as others get feelings also.

I didn't say anything about "the feeling I get." Did I?